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Alternative Cavern ideas
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TOPIC: Alternative Cavern ideas
#15613
Alternative Cavern ideas 7 Years, 9 Months ago  
I have an idea for more variety in cavern sets. Not sure how viable it really is but may be worth considering.

A problem with caverns being natural features is that you don't want too much repetion. While a couple of cavern sets don't look too bad, if someone wants mor than a few they could start looking repetitious next to each other, rather than a natural random cavern look.While I realise it is not economical for DF to stock several different versions of the various cavern sets what about if they had different versions that they rotated through restocking.

Let me explain my idea more fully with basic cavern set but idea could apply to any others in the series. The current set would be varient A, when it goes out of stok tis time a new version varient B is made and A would stay unavailable until B is all sold out.
Set B would have pieces of exactly the same descibtion as A - 4 curved sections, 3 straight walls, etc - but different in the details of the pieces so they look different when set together. Hopefully this would be a less difficult design process than a typical new set as the basic design and manufacturing features are already established for something extremely similar, possibly also some design elements could be reused, just put together on a piece in a different way.

How does this help customers?
We get variety and our caverns look cooler. Also as both sets are equivalent it doesn't matter which you get first so new comers are always happy.

How does it help Dwarven Forge?
Firstly customers are happy, long term customers because they get variety while at the same time newer cutomers don't fell like they are missing out. Also you get to sell more sets. Customers who otherwise would have only got one set will now buy two to get one of each. Customers who already have several cavern sets will buy some of the new new version to add variety to their setups.

If sucessful more sets could be added into the mix (ie a Cavern Set C) or principle could be extended to more sets. (Though it seems to me it is the cavernous sets where the most need for this, as with man made structures repetition is normal)
waza
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Dungeons - Rooms & Passages, 1.9 x Dlx Room, Wicked 1 & 2, Traps 1 & 2, Advanced, Orig Narrow, Floors.
Caverns - 2 x Original, Passages, 3x Chasm, River, 3 x Lake, Lake Exp. DoE- Orig, Wicked, Room.
Medieval Building - Orig, Exp. Sci-Fi - Starter, Passages, Alpha, 2 x Beta
Mini's - Skele War Band +, Orc Raid Party ++, Lizardmen Tribe
 
#15614
Alternative Cavern ideas 7 Years, 9 Months ago  
Hmm... I like the idea, but I am not sure it would do well.

I don't think there is a large customer base for it - relatively few people can afford more than 1 or 2 cavern sets, so they aren't worried about having too many repeat pieces.

I don't think it's therefore worth the money for DF to develop it.

I'd rather see them dedicate time, resources, etc. to new things, rather than tweaking older stuff.

But if there's enough demand, who knows? Maybe we'll see it.

L
Law
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#15615
Alternative Cavern ideas 7 Years, 9 Months ago  
relatively few people can afford more than 1 or 2 cavern sets, ...

I don't think it's therefore worth the money for DF to develop it.

I'd rather see them dedicate time, resources, etc. to new things, rather than tweaking older stuff.

Well what I suggested has a lot of "if's" but I thought it was better to put the idea out there than keep it to myself.

It really relies on if it would push people with one set to go to two, or those with two to go to three. I am fairly new to dwarven forge so just starting to build a collection and cavers are going to be a big part of it. Personally I think whether I end up with 2 or 3 Caverns, a varient type would encourage me to get an extra 1 or 2.

And it also relies on the idea that development costs would be much less as this is a varient of an existing set rather than a totally new set. Hopefully the increase in sales (while probably less than a totally new set) will be greater than the cost of developing (also hopefully less than a totally new set)
waza
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Dungeons - Rooms & Passages, 1.9 x Dlx Room, Wicked 1 & 2, Traps 1 & 2, Advanced, Orig Narrow, Floors.
Caverns - 2 x Original, Passages, 3x Chasm, River, 3 x Lake, Lake Exp. DoE- Orig, Wicked, Room.
Medieval Building - Orig, Exp. Sci-Fi - Starter, Passages, Alpha, 2 x Beta
Mini's - Skele War Band +, Orc Raid Party ++, Lizardmen Tribe
 
#15616
Alternative Cavern ideas 7 Years, 9 Months ago  
When i create large cavern set ups, with my 2 cavern und 3 cavern passage sets (plus some more infdividuals) i use the stalagmites, cavern rocks and such stuff (i got some of this extra) to make the pieces look diffrent.
It functions very well.

I think of more help would be some more new freestanding pieces, maybe another set of the freestanding walls will do.
Green_knight
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don't hate the character hate the game system
 
#15617
Alternative Cavern ideas 7 Years, 9 Months ago  
A ice cavern passage set and ice cavernous room set should be great too ^^
With cavern item,we also need lava item for dragon's place isn't it ?
HeroQuestFrance
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Cavern & Cavernous passages set / Cavernous Lake & River & Wall set / Advanced Builder set 1 &2 / Room & Passage set / Narrow Passage set & Wicked Addition set 1 & 2 / Deluxe Room set & Octagonal Room set / Trap set 1 & 2 / Fantasy Floor & Starter sets / Den Of Evil set & Room & Wicked Additions sets / Medieval Building & Expansion set / ROTA set 1 & 2 & entrance / Hellscape set / All Accessories
 
#15618
Alternative Cavern ideas 7 Years, 9 Months ago  
Waza,

Having a number of Cavern sets myself, I would also like to have some more Cavern variety available.

My hope to have more variety added would be in the form of a Cavernous WA Set though.

To further your point and to ensure greater variety within Cavern setups, I would also hope that [b]every single piece in this WA set was unique -even the small ones[/b].

Imagine the possibilities with 12-18 completely different, new pieces.

My reason for pushing this option is that I, (for one) already have all the Cavern Sets that I really need. Although this may sound "self-serving", I am quite likely not be the only DF collector in this position. By including a couple (or a few), new cave wall w-floor designed pieces (for variety) along with some other unique stand-alone rocks, formations, large pillars -(for stacking), cave openings, raised floors and cliffs or chasm pieces -(all these being suggested by various members in another, related thread); I believe this type of assortment in a WA Set would have great appeal to most every cavern collecter regardless of the number of Cavern Sets they already own.

I could be wrong about this one, but I would like to see that every genre eventually has at least one WA Set for it.
Wereweasel
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#15619
Alternative Cavern ideas 7 Years, 9 Months ago  
I agree with Wereweasel on this one. DF with its rapidly expanding cavern range would be able to make the cavern portion of its business as big as the "normal dungeon" sets range if it added a couple of more sets for variety. I would go for Cavernous WA and Narrow Caverns sets to finish off the range for now.

Top product and I am patiently and happily waiting for mine to arrive.

Dave
David Wasilewski
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#15620
Alternative Cavern ideas 7 Years, 9 Months ago  
I'd love to see a Cavernous WA set. I was thinking about this the other day -- there really aren't enough stalagmites IMHO... I'd love to have more. And some like the ones in the lake set, emerging from the water. The big one that comes with the regular set looks kinda bland (heavens!) next to the ones that have emerged since then. It's cute enough, but kinda basic. I would love to see those elaborate flowering, cascading type stalagmites, grouped together, for real fun. You could block line of sight, provide cover, slow terrain, really mess up a large cavernous space. And if they were based right, you could probably put them on top of water elements to make it look like they're emerging from the cavernous lakes. Wouldn't look as good as the "official" pieces, but it'd still be neat.

Just a thought....

L
Law
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#15621
Alternative Cavern ideas 7 Years, 9 Months ago  
Both a Cavern Wicked Additions set and Narrow Cavernous Passages set would be welcome by me.
Kradlo
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Kradlo
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#15622
Alternative Cavern ideas 7 Years, 9 Months ago  
Given that the Narrow Passages line for Fantasy sets was discontinued, I don't see Narrow Cavernous Passages happening. But a Wicked Cavernous Additions (or Cavernous Advanced Builder) is very likely, given the popularity of the Cavernous line and the wide range of possibilities.

Green_knight's point about accessory pieces going a long way to break the repetition of identical wall pieces is a very good one, whether the accessories go against or near a wall to "disguise" it, or in the middle of the cavern to draw the eye away from the walls.

I believe people have mentioned (in various threads) more stalagmites, stone columns, natural stone arches, natural "staircases", and natural bridges to go over river pieces. Another CA set might include signs of primitive habitation in the cavern -- rough doors, cairns made of loose stone, slave pits covered with crisscrossed bamboo, etc.

I'm not sure if this has been suggested yet, but an "outcropping" piece would make a good centerpiece for a cavern -- think of it as a natural staircase 6" long, with the highest 2" section carved out beneath it to allow minis to be placed under the outcropping. Due to its size, I'd make the base (4"x4") so that it goes directly on the table, NOT on top of another cavern piece. I think the base is large enough that the center of gravity will allow it to hold four minis on top of the overhang without tipping, but my physics has never been that good...
jackattack
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#15623
Alternative Cavern ideas 7 Years, 9 Months ago  
jack,

I'm not questioning your statement, but are you sure the Narrow Passages is disco'ed? I mean, I KNOW they've been un-restocked for A while, but I hadn't heard an official 'discontinued' statement.

Jeff!

I HOPE jackattack is wrong! To quote Ricky, "Joo gotta lotta 'splainin' to do, Lucy!" Narrow Passages has gone from an occasional sale thing to a "gotta have it!" item.You might want to start it back up again as an 'occasional' item, limited runs based on PRE-ORDERS only.

Although I think I remember this conversation/debate happening once before. Oh, well.

See ya!

Jim
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Jim Kratzer, a/k/a The Mad Yank
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#15624
Alternative Cavern ideas 7 Years, 9 Months ago  
You are right, Jim, I assume, and contrary to what Benny Hill said it only makes me a donkey.

However, there is no Narrow Passages set listed on the DF order pages, even as being "out of stock" or "temporarily unavailable". There are only three Narrow Passage items available in the Individual Items section (door, right-angle passage, and T-intersection), and each of those is marked down 33-40%. The Advanced Builder set does contain Narrow Swinging Doors (to go with the half-wall pieces) and what appear to be Narrow Passage end-pieces, but I can't find any actual Narrow Passage passages anywhere on the website.

If I am mistaken, then I apologize abjectly for putting a misleading statement on the forum. And I'm happy if we get another chance to buy another great DF set.
jackattack
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