Fancy stone too intense?

Erenor Silvershield
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Re: Fancy stone too intense?

Post by Erenor Silvershield » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:19 pm

Seraphis the Bland wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:01 am During the twitch, I thought it was cryptic when I queried Nate if we were going to see a Magic Mouth and he said something to the effect that 'maybe in the next KS because we would need two KS's to get through all the City ideas.' I'm still chewing on that.
I don’t know what the future holds, but we’ve gotten a lot of great improvements to the original Dwarvenite over the last several years. They may need to keep some things in store for later to make later Kickstarters viable, instead of a less profitable venture like Hellscape was. Dungeons of Doom improved and expanded Dungeons, Caverns Deep improved and expanded Caverns, KS 8 looks to expand and improve Cities. Especially considering the fact that Nate mentioned docks, etc., I think KS 9 will fill out things like ships and catacombs, maybe even farms and ruins. Maybe more rural aspects of cities, since there’s such a wealth of material to try. This next Kickstarter looks to be perfecting the build mechanics and answering a lot of the problems from CBS. Once that is accomplished and they’ve “modernized” as much as they can, the continue to move forward. DF seems driven to do that, all while continuing to allow us to incorporate older sets.

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Re: Fancy stone too intense?

Post by Vegomatic » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:42 pm

I finally got to watch the stream over the last three days before work. I like what they have shown thus far.

Something to think about is that we have only seen a handful of things... you can be sure there are plenty of things that have not been shown yet. I think they focused on the enhancements to city builder in this showing... to show us that what we may have is not obsolete nor will it need to be replaced.

This reveal started with several caveats... all is subject to change being one of them. It is early in the process was another. He also said something about building on what was already there as well as new tech...

I expect there to be much more to come that will be different than the "classic" ks3 city builder. I am patiently watching and waiting...

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Re: Fancy stone too intense?

Post by Rabbit Burner » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:36 am

If your players are looking at floors and walls and saying 'thats looks Celtic and out of place'. Then we suggest they watch some DIY house make up TV programs as imagination seems to have taken a backseat.

So needless to say we have no issue with the designs shown so far, we might if they were clearly Celtic, Roman, Greek, Egyptian etc.

But they are not, they are a generic medieval style in keeping with the aesthetic they have maintained all throughout.

It will be fascinating to see how the designs develop and what designs are on each side.

We are well aware that as a builder you have a vision in mind when you start and the materials and designs at hand don't always meet that vision and unpainted does not help in this case.

But DF have to make a call between generic with no details or providing some detail while keeping it generic enough.

That will always be something the individual will have an opinion, there is no 'one size fits all' here.
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Re: Fancy stone too intense?

Post by Law » Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:43 am

I like the idea of fancy floors, and they didn't leap out as terrible to me. But I am sympathetic to the larger point. Some of my favorite flourishes in DF have been the fairly simple Celtic style frames they gave to the old large resin floors. And I had a similar instinct --- they were nice enough to stand out and to mark a room of having special significance, but still general enough that they wouldn't look out of place in (almost) any layout. The more you trick it out, the more you hyper-specify how a piece is going to make sense.

I'm remaining cautiously optimistic about all of this. DF has never let us peek behind the curtain so early, which I think bodes well for two reasons: (1) because this is such an early stage that it's not clear how much any of this is going to happen and certainly not yet clear how it's going to look and work; (2) because one advantage of allowing these sneak peeks is to get feedback, and I think they may modify the plan if people aren't crazy about it.

In many ways, I'm more concerned about over-fiddliness (lots of peg holes and new inserts) than design limitations. The latter would be mildly disappointing but I could find a way to make it work. The former could be a real issue. I've gone back to KS6 a handful of times over the last year, and I have to say that Caverns Deep, with its swell walls and trifectas and funky elevation, can produce some of the coolest caves ever, but it is definitely a pain to use. Experiences like that, and I'd put Castles in this category as well, lead me to conclude that DF definitely suffers from adding too many engineering concepts for the sake of increased versatility. We want versatility, yes, but when it tips over into being that much harder to just put stuff on the table and play..... not so great.

I'm hoping KS8 retains a flexible approach. So far it looks like it will. Don't want to mess with diagonal walls or 2" walls? Don't buy them. And while pegholes make it possible to connect floors horizontally for a more secure upper floor, you obviously don't HAVE to use them. They won't ever be visible so it seems like a non-issue for those of us unmoved by the idea.

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Re: Fancy stone too intense?

Post by lostpict » Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:17 am

Law wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:43 am I'm remaining cautiously optimistic about all of this. DF has never let us peek behind the curtain so early, which I think bodes well for two reasons: (1) because this is such an early stage that it's not clear how much any of this is going to happen and certainly not yet clear how it's going to look and work; (2) because one advantage of allowing these sneak peeks is to get feedback, and I think they may modify the plan if people aren't crazy about it.
I think this early peek reflects the healthy competition that Wizkids presents. At least twice in the Twitch Nate brought their town product line up. I think that is good for all concerned. The more features WizKids releases the more motivation DF will have to innovate in similar ways.
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Re: Fancy stone too intense?

Post by zenako » Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:26 am

Law wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:43 am ...DF definitely suffers from adding too many engineering concepts for the sake of increased versatility. We want versatility, yes, but when it tips over into being that much harder to just put stuff on the table and play..... not so great.
This is somewhat important in my mind. Right now, one of the advantages DF has over some of the competition on the market is the ease of assembly of a build and how quickly you can modify it or change the layout. The tiles are solid and heavy enough to stay in place without added props or pins or connections. One of my biggest issues with many of the new tile locking systems is you have to almost plan out the build before you start, you cannot easily let inspiration drive you. DF still retains that freedom to create on the fly from the sandbox of tiles you have.

I tried using some of the Wizkid tiles just sitting next to each other without joining them and had issues with them sliding when I went to place stuff on them, opening gaps, etc. (which obviously does not happen when they are all joined). Similar experience with the AoD Rampage tiles so far. Looks are fine, albeit different, but to make a simple room or chamber takes longer. I know some folks might just keep some pre-built rooms or chamber or hallways assembled and on the shelf to grab when needed. That is great, but all those tiles are now "locked up" in that build. (Perhaps for a recurring structure like the home base tavern of the adventuring party for example.)

DF needs to keep not only versatility in mind, but also ease of use.

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Re: Fancy stone too intense?

Post by NiandoBG » Thu Feb 25, 2021 4:47 pm

I had time to watch the twitch stream in the meantime.
I like what they have planned for KS 8.

We often compared DF with Lego, the KS 8 seems to go more into that direction with their facade system. IMO it looks very promising.

I‘m okay, if they concentrate on Outdoor shapes.
To be honest you can use the old resin system, the KS3 system or the Wizkids System for Indoors. So there are already a lot of options available.

But, I had high hopes for catacombs *sigh* but it seems that this road was closed.

So what do you think, do we get our promised water tiles? It seems they don‘t do a lot of sculpted roads...
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Re: Fancy stone too intense?

Post by Talistran » Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:20 pm

NiandoBG wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 4:47 pm
So what do you think, do we get our promised water tiles? It seems they don‘t do a lot of sculpted roads...
No.

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Re: Fancy stone too intense?

Post by dice4hire » Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:15 pm

Talistran wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:20 pm
NiandoBG wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 4:47 pm
So what do you think, do we get our promised water tiles? It seems they don‘t do a lot of sculpted roads...
No.
When they have SKUs left over.........
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Re: Fancy stone too intense?

Post by Rabbit Burner » Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:27 am

sculpted roads may become our water tiles :(
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