Why Not Reopen the PM Again?

Law
Minotaur Lord
Minotaur Lord
Posts: 6035
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:26 am

Re: Why Not Reopen the PM Again?

Post by Law » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:46 am

AnimeSensei wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:20 pm
Talistran wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:01 pm *IF Dwarven Forge actually fixes their supply problems and has everything available in the store, they will need to actually provide a significant discount in the KS.

Right now, I argue that the only reason to order in the KS is because it is the only time you can get what you want, in the quantity you want.

The discount during the KS is actually pretty weak when factoring in them taking my money for a year+.
I agree. I don't think they can go as deep as Reaper does in regards to a discount (but who knows?) but there would need to be extra incentive as the exclusiveness of being able to purchase what you need would go away and FOMO would decrease. A new "gotta get it now" factor would need to be dangled in front of us, and the easiest options are generous stretch goals or a discount; ie: value.
I'm curious to see what they do. During KS7, based on comments made here and there, it appeared that the KS would support specific pieces and also specific assortments that wouldn't come back. Some of this is just chicken-and-egg: because some fans recognized that the KS was the only time to be sure you'd get stuff, a lot of people tried to get everything at once; as a result, DF noticed a trend that larger sets tended to sell decently during the KS but not move much at all when in the store. So they were leaning towards just making those kinds of things KS-only.

If they totally change their approach, maybe this won't be necessary. If an Encounter-type model falls away, and pledge levels are just conglomerations of add-ons, then there may not be a need to say the store won't get things. Maybe it won't get things ALL AT ONCE, but they could possibly cycle through it all over time. If that's the case, then, yeah, the advantage of pledging gets reduced. I'm with you -- for a long time now, the chief advantage of pledging is that you are able to pick and choose what you want and not worry about things being out of stock for possibly more than a year. If that goes away, and the math doesn't support a meaningful discount, they'll have to find another incentive (beyond the most obvious one, which is just, you pledge to help get the stuff made at all, and if nobody pledges it doesn't get made, and if not enough people pledge it isn't very successful).

Talistran
Minotaur Lord
Minotaur Lord
Posts: 2169
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:52 pm

Re: Why Not Reopen the PM Again?

Post by Talistran » Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:52 pm

Law wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:46 am
AnimeSensei wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:20 pm
Talistran wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:01 pm *IF Dwarven Forge actually fixes their supply problems and has everything available in the store, they will need to actually provide a significant discount in the KS.

Right now, I argue that the only reason to order in the KS is because it is the only time you can get what you want, in the quantity you want.

The discount during the KS is actually pretty weak when factoring in them taking my money for a year+.
I agree. I don't think they can go as deep as Reaper does in regards to a discount (but who knows?) but there would need to be extra incentive as the exclusiveness of being able to purchase what you need would go away and FOMO would decrease. A new "gotta get it now" factor would need to be dangled in front of us, and the easiest options are generous stretch goals or a discount; ie: value.
I'm curious to see what they do. During KS7, based on comments made here and there, it appeared that the KS would support specific pieces and also specific assortments that wouldn't come back. Some of this is just chicken-and-egg: because some fans recognized that the KS was the only time to be sure you'd get stuff, a lot of people tried to get everything at once; as a result, DF noticed a trend that larger sets tended to sell decently during the KS but not move much at all when in the store. So they were leaning towards just making those kinds of things KS-only.

If they totally change their approach, maybe this won't be necessary. If an Encounter-type model falls away, and pledge levels are just conglomerations of add-ons, then there may not be a need to say the store won't get things. Maybe it won't get things ALL AT ONCE, but they could possibly cycle through it all over time. If that's the case, then, yeah, the advantage of pledging gets reduced. I'm with you -- for a long time now, the chief advantage of pledging is that you are able to pick and choose what you want and not worry about things being out of stock for possibly more than a year. If that goes away, and the math doesn't support a meaningful discount, they'll have to find another incentive (beyond the most obvious one, which is just, you pledge to help get the stuff made at all, and if nobody pledges it doesn't get made, and if not enough people pledge it isn't very successful).
People help people/companies once or twice. DF has been helped a lot.

If backers are just financiers, we should be paid like them. If we are more than financiers, why don't we have water tiles yet? ;)

period3
Ogre
Ogre
Posts: 785
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:34 am

Re: Why Not Reopen the PM Again?

Post by period3 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:33 pm

Law wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:46 am I'm with you -- for a long time now, the chief advantage of pledging is that you are able to pick and choose what you want and not worry about things being out of stock for possibly more than a year.
There's also the fact that you get your stuff first, before it's available on the webstore. The discount, though modest, is still significant, especially for large pledges. Nothing is ever cheaper in the store, but it is occasionally significantly more expensive. And of course some things change. Some examples:

- KS5 elevation platforms were $29 or so during the KS, they're now nearly double.
- KS6.66 Trifectas were $66 during the KS, and they are also now nearly double.
- KS6 dreadhollow paint job was more sophisticated during kickstarter, but now has a less complex paint scheme.

Also, I doubt DF will be especially concerned about stocking packs that are less popular in the KS. It's hard to know what these are in advance.

Droooo
Orc
Orc
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:50 pm

Re: Why Not Reopen the PM Again?

Post by Droooo » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:15 pm

period3 wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:33 pm - KS5 elevation platforms were $29 or so during the KS, they're now nearly double.
- KS6.66 Trifectas were $66 during the KS, and they are also now nearly double.
- KS6 dreadhollow paint job was more sophisticated during kickstarter, but now has a less complex paint scheme.
Recently I was looking at the cavern banks - Hellscape banks megapack went from $249 to $368 in the store. Meanwhile the regular cavern banks megapack was $272 in the kickstarter and dropped a dollar in the store, and still seems overpriced compared to the smaller banks packs.

zenako
Minotaur Lord
Minotaur Lord
Posts: 4224
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:51 pm
Location: North of Boston

Re: Why Not Reopen the PM Again?

Post by zenako » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:50 pm

Droooo wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:15 pm
period3 wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:33 pm - KS5 elevation platforms were $29 or so during the KS, they're now nearly double.
- KS6.66 Trifectas were $66 during the KS, and they are also now nearly double.
- KS6 dreadhollow paint job was more sophisticated during kickstarter, but now has a less complex paint scheme.
Recently I was looking at the cavern banks - Hellscape banks megapack went from $249 to $368 in the store. Meanwhile the regular cavern banks megapack was $272 in the kickstarter and dropped a dollar in the store, and still seems overpriced compared to the smaller banks packs.
Having painted a small amount of Hellscape, I can honestly say, getting it prepainted is worth the price premium to me. Painting those I did was a lot of work to get them to look good. Way more work than normal paint scheme tiles.

User avatar
arsthein
Minotaur
Minotaur
Posts: 1423
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:59 am
Location: Spain

Re: Why Not Reopen the PM Again?

Post by arsthein » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:59 am

One thing to consider when thinking about compensating the backers over the store customers are the nature of the stretch goals.

When they are new pieces or bling added to an add-on, in the store you get the same pieces, while, when they are aditional bread and butter pieces (more quantity, like the dungeon sets from KS1), you don't need to offer that much ammount of pieces in the store final for-purchase set. Same when there is a pack of stretch goals not linked to a specific package (like KS3 or KS4).

I think that could be a nice enough way for rewarding backers.

Just my 2 cents,

realarete
Minotaur
Minotaur
Posts: 1030
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:09 pm
Location: Buffalo, NY

Re: Why Not Reopen the PM Again?

Post by realarete » Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:08 pm

Great news on pledge levels being made of ADD-ON packs .... this is a no brainer, and I am glad they are doing it.

On the topic of store restocks getting mapped-out better, I imagine its much like drawing up the defense of Rome right before its sacked by the Visigoths (looks great on paper ... which turns out burns easily :o ).... I think everyone knows in this analogy Rome is the Web store, the Visigoths are Rabbits :lol:

User avatar
dice4hire
Minotaur Lord
Minotaur Lord
Posts: 7048
Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 7:13 pm
Location: Nagoya Japan

Re: Why Not Reopen the PM Again?

Post by dice4hire » Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:05 am

I knew there was something odd about those rabbits.

Was hard to tell as everyone here is a bit weird in one way or another, though.....

If they actually do it i fully support making pledges of all add-on packs. but wasn't wildlands supposed to be something closer to that, and they probably ended up making more encounters than ever before and none of them are made up of add-on packs.

The only thing that really worries me about all add-on packs is that they not only have to finalize pieces before the KS but now have to finalize add-on packs so they can get builds and alternate builds done.

I doubt DF can focus well enough to do that. they jsut love to fiddle.

Though to be fair I am sure some fiddling is done to make things work at the factory.
A pretty decent Docent of Valoria

User avatar
Seraphis the Bland
Ogre
Ogre
Posts: 522
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:04 am
Location: Northern California

Re: Why Not Reopen the PM Again?

Post by Seraphis the Bland » Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:41 am

I for one am glad that they are going the 'all add-on packs' route. I will always be sad that I couldn't afford to get everything I wanted in KS5 and now those little pools from the Eldritch Pools encounter now seem forever out of my reach! If it had been an add-on pack at the time, I would have gotten them for sure. And I'm not worried that DF won't be able to fiddle about and come up with some cool collections of packs to make some interesting encounters.

User avatar
Riley
Minotaur
Minotaur
Posts: 1195
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:00 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: Why Not Reopen the PM Again?

Post by Riley » Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:02 pm

I really hope DF follows through with its plan to do an all-add-ons Kickstarter.

I have been building mostly-add-ons pledges since KS4, and it might be fun to take part in the stretch goal dance.

More importantly, I really hope it will improve my ability to buy add-on sets from the DF store after the KS is over.

Post Reply

Return to “Pre-Kickstarter 7 Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests