Close but not quite

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AnimeSensei
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Re: Close but not quite

Post by AnimeSensei » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:58 pm

madrigalian wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:32 am
Anime, sorry to hear about your fight with cancer, my friend. Glad you're here with us this summer, as always.
Never fun, but I'm still here! Thank you for the kind words.
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Re: Close but not quite

Post by zenako » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:55 pm

Harneloot wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:09 am
Since you brought up Maxminis.... :D

Greyhaze's Tarrasque, err, ah, Behemoth LIVES!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/du ... ts/2259734
Neat Greyhaze is a name from that past for sure, no real need for a Behemoth for me, but I noted the DCM miniatures in the Add-on section. I have purchased many of those from Auggie in the recent years. Nicely done. The humans are a little stout and stocky, but not out of line for village folks. The tentacles has appeared as a spell effect in some encounters.

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Re: Close but not quite

Post by fnordfriendly » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:12 pm

Law wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:42 am
That said, I do agree with you in the sense that there probably is some general "this was fun, let's do it again" sense of wanting to work with each other and do the same kind of thing. Getting those record numbers, it's exciting. Heck, even the backers get into checking out how a campaign is doing compared to others, and there were a lot of shouts and cheers when KS6 beat the record high set by KS5. Similarly, there are a lot of hand-wringers bringing up the dip from KS4.

So, yeah, they probably do get caught up in the fun of doing bigger and breaking records and having everyone back. And in that sense, they're a victim of their own success. But they're not actually financially committed in a way that requires them to support someone's salary.
You bring up a point I've wanted to mention, but I don't know how to say it without being preachy. The amount of pressure the DF staff takes on to put on these yearly KS "shows" will very probably lead them to develop some degree of PTSD. A lot of people who do the kind of all-or-nothing job cycles like this experience it. Once you start down that road, it becomes something you crave - so it's a positive feedback cycle. That's all I'll say about the matter, I'm not the DF staff psychologist (but I play one on the internets). For those DF staffers who are committed to continue this cycle, who have families, just consider the effect on them. Take a step back and think about it. PTSD isn't limited to trauma surgeons and veterans, read up about it. I could be way off base, if so forgive the rant.

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Re: Close but not quite

Post by Harneloot » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:09 am

Since you brought up Maxminis.... :D

Greyhaze's Tarrasque, err, ah, Behemoth LIVES!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/du ... ts/2259734

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Re: Close but not quite

Post by zenako » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:01 am

High volume posters on this forum also have to keep in mind how small of a fraction of the entire backer base they truly are. As of this morning, the 205th highest poster has only 100 comments, out of over 7000 forum members. So only less than 3% of the forum members have been even that active. If you watched the KS comment section, there are probably only 100 or so of us routinely posting there too, out of over 3100 backers. Even the poll on this forum asking for what we want to see in the future KSers has only a small number of responses compared to total members.

A few numbers:
Top 10 posters = 24% of all posts on forum
Top 35 posters = 50% of all posts on forum
Top 100 posters = 73% of all posts on the forum
205 forum members have 100 or more posts
658 forum members have 10 or more posts
1633 forum members have 1 or more posts
5391 forum members have never posted, but did sign up at one time or another.


So while vocal, almost all forums have a handful of active, engaged and knowledgeable members who tend to drive discussions. I saw this clearly on the Maxmini's forum (for prepainted DDM product) years ago that I helped to mod. (Had access to even more user data behind the scenes, like how many posts in the past 12 months type stuff.) I have to assume DF has a lot of insight into actual sales volumes of various offerings and the costs and profit margins for each type of kit. DF while a labor of love for many that work there, is still a business and needs to make decisions on what they make to sell with the bottom line in mind.

Posters and members can also burn hot with certain passions and sometimes just burn out period and need to step away for a time. It happened with minis, it can happen here with terrain too.
Last edited by zenako on Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Close but not quite

Post by madrigalian » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:32 am

Anime, sorry to hear about your fight with cancer, my friend. Glad you're here with us this summer, as always.
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Re: Close but not quite

Post by dice4hire » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:13 am

I really wish this topic would just go on hold till the PM comes out. Maybe just maybe there is something there. If not, then it may be more appropriate to bring it up again. I do feel everything has been said about it on both sides and frankly I do not want to read about either side any more, or at least not for a while.

So let's just leave it lie at least will the PM, or if nothing appears in the PM till DF starts hinting at stuff upcoming for the next KS. I do think DF knows what people want with this, both for and against.
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Re: Close but not quite

Post by AnimeSensei » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:10 am

I've had some time to reflect and think on this, and while I still feel the same, I think I may have come across heavy-handed. I apologize to anyone who is offended by my post; I realize that many of the issues brought up perhaps aren't about the game, terrain, or the hobby in general, but more a breach of perceived trust. That's is a different emotional level than a hobby.
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Re: Close but not quite

Post by marcoreds » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:51 am

I just think that this forum is simply a place for us to discuss and put out “food for thought” for us to have fun, and DF to consider, and take ideas from.

It seems to me that many ideas thrown out here are then considered valid, and implemented. See for example the division in Core and Adventure in this last KS, or the forest setting.

Most of them are implemented, or not implemented, without an explicit answer in the topic(s) where those ideas were introduced.

As in, we do not get a “we like this, we’ll do it in the next KS” or “we don’t like this, it will NEVER be done”.

When/if they do it, we find out the idea was accepted.

I don’t think DF wants to commit one way or another before actually sitting down and making a final decision. And even then, there isn’t necessarily an answer in the topic where the idea came from. The fact that the idea has been used or not is the answer.

I am not interested in water tiles, but I believe Talistran’s topic was a very good one, rich in ideas; in case one day DF decides to actually do water tiles, that is a very helpful source of inspiration. And going on with that topic can’t be a bad thing, it reminds DF there is interest.

But I don’t think that DF unwillingness to make promises is something offensive, and I don’t think DF lack of explicit answers in the various topics with good ideas can be considered being disrespectful.
Every official answer has weight, and they have to be very careful with what they officially say, or promise.

As I see it, water tiles are not in KS6, so that’s the official answer to “are water tiles in KS6?”.
They said here in the forum that the request for water tiles has been seen, and DF is aware of it.
That is as much of an answer as they give, most times suggestions aren’t even acknowledged...

I would not take the lack of an official and definitive promise or denial to a request as a personal slight.

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Re: Close but not quite

Post by Rabbit Burner » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:23 am

OK this is annoying - poxy water tiles again.

OK lets make a few points clear.
Talistran wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:54 pm
Yep, it does seem that way that it gets mentioned a lot. I will mention it isn't always me, I have backed off from commenting quite a bit recently and it was still being brought up by others.

.....
This is true others have brought this up, either in jest or just poking the bear.

Talistran wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:54 pm
...
No worries. I'm done and out. I won't mention it again.
...
Great :)
Talistran wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:54 pm
...
Here is my final explanation of what is really bothering me.
...
Oh we are mentioning it again ? didn't last long
Ok maybe a tad unfair - lets do this one 'last' time.
Talistran wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:54 pm
...

What really bothers me is that even though it was a topic that a ton of people put input into.., even though they had a lot of call for it... not just by me or a few die hards, but literally dozens and dozens of people (if not hundreds over the years)... with years of passionate pleas...

DF wouldn't just give us an official answer on the forum where it was being discussed. On THEIR forum. Instead, they sneak an answer (supposedly like "Not going to happen") into some video on a kickstarter. When the forum threads have been there for years for them to respond to.

THAT reeks of disrespect to me. You can package it however you want (I'm looking at you AnimeSensei) in that they don't want to disappoint if they say they will and don't want to disappoint if they say they do... but at the end of the day, they build up a reputation over the last decade of communicating with their fanbase and working with them... and then they don't. Maybe I've been spoiled, being able to catch their ears over the years (during the resin and first kickstarter days). But I expected more from DF. I expected that if dozens of their fans expressed an idea that they would at least give us the dignity of communicating with us. But instead it is silence.
...
so remind us, didn't Stefan respond to your poll asking for details of what you want. Ok that is a leading question because you created a Thread titled:

UPDATED, Page 9. Stefan wants to know what Water Tiles we want and wants drawings! HELP!

https://www.dwarvenforge.com/forum/view ... =62&t=9521

Then you proceed to quote Stefan in the opening post.

So lets be blunt about this, we see this as you are deliberately overstating your argument and contradicting the data at hand. Data you have been instrumental in collating, then conveniently forgetting for the sake of pushing your point across.
Talistran wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:54 pm
...
IF Nate doesn't like water tiles, cool. It is his call at this point. I would say if "Stefan" doesn't like them, but he responded on Facebook saying that he thinks it could happen...
...
contradicting yourself within two sentences.
Talistran wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:54 pm
...
So, cool. I'm done. I won't mention water tiles again. I've heard you all loud and clear. I AM the annoying one. I can own that and I can stop.

...
That's good to know
Talistran wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:54 pm
...
But this hobby for me was about more than just some cool terrain... it was about being PART of the hobby while communicating with them and helping come up with ideas.
...
That is the same for many DooFers.
Talistran wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:54 pm
...
And suddenly, we're not good enough to even get a response.
...
Think that has been shown to erroneous
Talistran wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:54 pm
...
And to be honest, this topic has ruined this hobby to me. No need to reply, I won't be back to look at the responses. I really am burned out to the point that I put $10 into KS6. My heart just isn't in it anymore and it has affected the entire roleplaying hobby for me. Good luck to all.
That is a shame. Apart from the overly blunt language you do have some points and ideas for discussion. But have to agree with AS you cant let things like this affect you emotionally, life is too short and these are first/fantasy world problems and just not worth getting upset over, but its hard when your passionate about it and some show passion more emotionally than others and there is room for all here.

Sure we are going to disagree and argue but all families are like that and this big DF family is no different. You have Dwarvenite you are entitled to your opinion.

We can be wrong and life has shown us that we'd rather know of our mistakes so we can own them and try to learn from them.

Hopefully unboxing your KS6 will rekindle the passion if it has not sooner
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