Painted prices

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Re: Painted prices

Post by GODofwar » Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:21 pm

Jonathan wrote:
Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:23 pm
Based on the pledge counts, there appears to be a divide in the market: People who don't want to break $1000, and people who will go way over $1000. Unfortunately, this "go big or go home" mentality for those that are willing to break 1k seems to have left little love for Dungeon Level IV.

Pledge Choices.JPG

I'm guessing once Dungeon of Doom is available, about a quarter or so of the backers pledging for Dungeon Level V will switch up to Dungeon of Doom.
OMG, over half the pledged $$ are for DoD and this was before the availability crises late last night.

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Re: Painted prices

Post by GODofwar » Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:19 pm

LadySabelle wrote:
Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:50 pm
The DoD is a really, really, (seriously: really) massive set. In case anyone missed it, the DoD was too large to fit on Stefan's 4'x10' table. DF figured that it wouldn't be for everyone, that's why they've got every encounter set as a separate add-on. Add-ons WITH the SGs for each encounter.

As for paint, I'm afraid that I sculpted a lot of highly detailed pieces which makes painting more complicated (expensive) and I'm not the only one who did either.
Dear Lady Sabelle, why would Stefan assign you anything but the most difficult, exquisite sculpts?

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Re: Painted prices

Post by GODofwar » Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:18 pm

LadySabelle wrote:
Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:50 pm
The DoD is a really, really, (seriously: really) massive set. In case anyone missed it, the DoD was too large to fit on Stefan's 4'x10' table. DF figured that it wouldn't be for everyone, that's why they've got every encounter set as a separate add-on. Add-ons WITH the SGs for each encounter.

As for paint, I'm afraid that I sculpted a lot of highly detailed pieces which makes painting more complicated (expensive) and I'm not the only one who did either.
Dear Lady Sabelle, why would Stefan assign you anuthing but the most difficult, exquisite sculpts?

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Totus KS Delenda Sunt, especially this one
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Re: Painted prices

Post by GODofwar » Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:16 pm

AnimeSensei wrote:
Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:40 pm
Not versatility, but I feel new backers not accustomed to DF (their stated target market they want to attract) may not understand the versatility if each set has it's own preconfigured area name. I could be overthinking, but to me it's a potential issue. But I do give them props for being better prepared this time, and the pieces look great.
I was a pre-KS5 complainer b/c I saw having to buy a whole new dungeon to get the specialty pieces and FBz (Fiddly Bitz, like the snake columns). Now it is clear that's not true, I'm happy. I'll get enough Encounters to fill out my limited need for the KS5 pattern standard tiles, choose those to overlap as many of the SG FBz as possible, then buy add-ons for the rest.

Stefan, did Michelle do the snake columns and / or Gargoyles? They look like her style..and it says a world about DwF that some of us actually try to recognized individual artist styles!

Its these FBz I mostly want, plus really new neat items like angled doors.

Stefan, any chance at all of producing half-columns with small 'foot' sticking out to keep it against a plain KS I dungeon wall? I can see decorating some of my existing KS I, which has a very different feel dthan KS5 tiles.

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Re: Painted prices

Post by lostpict » Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:00 pm

Stefan, it is the rare man who is blessed to have a vocation which matches their avocation. I hope your passion continues to drive DF for many future KS as you reveal the wonders of Valoria.
Regards,

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Re: Painted prices

Post by Spiropolous the Minotaur » Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:50 pm

Thank you Bernyleung! You are absolutely right that this is a passion project that I do because I love it. I am actually very well off financially due to inheritance, (I'm an only child and both my parents have passed) not because of DF...I can retire anytime I want. I do this because I LOVE it:)

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Re: Painted prices

Post by bernyleung » Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:16 pm

Stefan, as I've said before, I appreciate EVERYTHING that you and your staff of friends/work family have done to take Dwarven Forge to where it is today. I can tell that you've run this as a passion project first, and as a business second, because you are not out to gouge the customer. Something tells me that if you were a mega-billionaire, you might even be tempted to give away these products for free if there were no negative consequences whatsoever.
Please don't ever sell this business. Stay in control. Stay creative. Stay YOUNG!

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Re: Painted prices

Post by Spiropolous the Minotaur » Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:49 am

Stormfury wrote:
Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:21 am
Spiropolous the Minotaur wrote:
Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:30 pm
hello folks, I am sorry that prices have gone up from KS1...that is just the reality of inflation I am afraid. this is a trend that will just continue...manufacturing in the far east is not going to come down. I totally feel you if price is an issue, believe me, I wish we could charge less and still stay make the best stuff around but the reality is, we cannot charge less without using another material or method. dwarvenite is the best there is.... snipped .... I thank you for supporting good quality goods for 21 years! If you want to save some money, please buy unpainted, I also offer top quality paints and brushes at a really great bargain! Thank you!
Please don't take our comments personally. I know that's a hard ask given your passion for the product. For me, and I can only speak for me, my frustration with prices is the cost of painted. I don't feel KS IV had the quality of paint job of previous KSs. Maybe it's because the magnitude of pieces? Maybe it's reflective of the cheaper price? Either way, we haven't even gotten all of our castle pieces yet, so It's hard to accept that painting prices have jumped 16% over KS IV already... Or 13.8% over KS III. Especially given the stated goal of attracting more/new customers.

I know I can paint my own, I have the capability, but I'd prefer to spend my time painting miniatures and props to use ON my DF, vs painting 100s-1000s of pieces, but when I could get 2 unpainted Door Packs vs 1 Painted I start to question the purchase entirely... Unpainted would require 10s-100s of hours of time, purchasing of paints and 100% won't match any of my DF painted stuff. Part of the reason I buy painted is for consistency, I Know that hasn't been 100% but still it's been close enough until KS IV that I've been very happy with it.
Thank you Stormfury, I'm OK with the criticism. It's true that costs have gone up. I own up to that. At the same time, there really is nothing that can be done other than stop making the products I make. It just costs a lot to make high quality dungeon pieces. I make the best in the world and am very proud of it. These new pieces can even take magnets! I never stop at trying to innovate and make the best cutting edge products I can make. Anything less is un-inspirational for me. If the factory charges me more every year to hand paint pieces what can I do about it? Not a whole lot. I actually consider it a great value. You say yourself that it would require you "10-100s of hours of time, purchasing of paints..." you left out brushes;) TIME. Time is valuable. I know my time is extremely valuable. 100 hours of my time at say $20/hour is $2000...when I think about that, I am grateful that there is a painted option. please understand I am not trying to cut you down. Your opinion is of course very valuable to me. without your support and everyone else I would have no business. I am very honored and grateful that I have supporters and backers every single year. I am not a greedy person. I don't just say to myself, hmmm...I think I'll go ahead and charge an extra 16% this year because I think I can get away with it. I actually get sick from stress at the increases in costs to my business. I lose sleep thinking about how many backers might drop out because of the higher costs to manufacture my wonderful products. I spent a year of my life pouring my heart into my passion, my vision, joyously thinking about how it will be received...when I get quotes from the factory and the shipping companies my heart sinks and I wring my hands at what to do. How can I cut costs. How can I stay in business. I now have more employees...that means more salaries...I am responsible for them. they look to me for steady work so they can pay the rent month to month. I feel responsible for them. Sorry if I have gotten to personal. I wear my heart on my sleeve man. I have to be honest. Costs to make goods in any part of the world are only going up, and rightly so for humane reasons. I stand by my statement that I feel that our prices are a great bargain if judged by the quality of what you get. We make GREAT products, not inferior ones. there are many competitors and copy cats out there. We are the leaders and the dreamers. Thanks for another great year! In a month or so we shall begin the enormous effort again of dreaming and envisioning something totally new and visionary. We cannot do it without your generous suport and belief in us. We are grateful to the fans and collectors that keep this unconventional company alive. a company run by an artist, a gamer, a rebel, who has attracted a host of incredibly creative and talented artists to work here. Not some greedy CEO that went to business school and loves money over life. What a grand experiment this is! THANK YOU!

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Re: Painted prices

Post by Thunder » Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:33 am

I have backed all the Kickstarters and purchased extras off the website. I always bought Pre-painted because I figured that was a good way to both save me time and to have a consistent look across the different sets.

The first reason of course is true, but the second reason has for sure not come true. I am willing to pay the premium for painting - if the colors stay consistent.

Peace
Last edited by Thunder on Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Painted prices

Post by Stormfury » Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:21 am

Spiropolous the Minotaur wrote:
Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:30 pm
hello folks, I am sorry that prices have gone up from KS1...that is just the reality of inflation I am afraid. this is a trend that will just continue...manufacturing in the far east is not going to come down. I totally feel you if price is an issue, believe me, I wish we could charge less and still stay make the best stuff around but the reality is, we cannot charge less without using another material or method. dwarvenite is the best there is.... snipped .... I thank you for supporting good quality goods for 21 years! If you want to save some money, please buy unpainted, I also offer top quality paints and brushes at a really great bargain! Thank you!
Please don't take our comments personally. I know that's a hard ask given your passion for the product. For me, and I can only speak for me, my frustration with prices is the cost of painted. I don't feel KS IV had the quality of paint job of previous KSs. Maybe it's because the magnitude of pieces? Maybe it's reflective of the cheaper price? Either way, we haven't even gotten all of our castle pieces yet, so It's hard to accept that painting prices have jumped 16% over KS IV already... Or 13.8% over KS III. Especially given the stated goal of attracting more/new customers.

I know I can paint my own, I have the capability, but I'd prefer to spend my time painting miniatures and props to use ON my DF, vs painting 100s-1000s of pieces, but when I could get 2 unpainted Door Packs vs 1 Painted I start to question the purchase entirely... Unpainted would require 10s-100s of hours of time, purchasing of paints and 100% won't match any of my DF painted stuff. Part of the reason I buy painted is for consistency, I Know that hasn't been 100% but still it's been close enough until KS IV that I've been very happy with it.
He who laughs last, thinks slowest.

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