VAT and import fees

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dice4hire
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Re: VAT and import fees

Post by dice4hire » Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:16 am

I know a while ago DF was thinking of bundling orders and shipping them out periodically to lower costs, but I have not heard much about that in a while. This seems like it would be very good for Europe with its many customers. Not sure how many customers DF really has in Asia.
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marcoreds
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Re: VAT and import fees

Post by marcoreds » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:58 am

It doesn't seem a big difference imho.

Of course, buying a smallish item makes no sense. The numbers would be very similar for my country too if going that way, the main reason being that shipping has a kind of "base cost" that applies to every order, then grows slower than the price of what you're buying.

So, making a 59$ buy, shipping (and relative VAT and customs) come out as more than the item itself.
If you place a bigger order, shipping goes down as % of the value, reaching some 30% or less of the cost.

What I see from this topic, is that the surcharge we have here in EU is pretty level, and includes higher shipping (than US), a 19-21% VAT (that also considers shipping cost), plus customs, which are kind of variable, but amounts to let's say 4-10% of the cost.

The main issue I have with the US shop is that of availability. Please note I'm not randomly criticizing just because, I do understand the problems of keeping stock, its cost and "planning" difficulties considered the time needed for production when running low, and all.
I am just saying that the fluctuation of available items is indeed a big deterrent for EU buyers. Reason is that we can't just buy a single item whenever it becomes available, then next time get the next that comes up, and so on. For our order to make sense, we need to buy multiple items together, and place a biggish order.
This means that:
- for people who just can't buy big at once, it is undoable.
- for people who can place a big order all at once, you have to wait till all of the items you'd like are all in stock at the same time, so you can buy them together. This is very hard to happen.

The 2 solutions I see would be:
- Having an EU shop. This would mean for DF shipping a bunch of things together, minimizing costs in %, for us being able to get even smallish orders, since "internal" shipping would be more reasonable. The difficulty of this, though, is that it's hard to predict exactly what people would buy, so managing the inventory and restocking it would not be easy. Also, it would be a fixed cost to pay. As previous experiences show, not an easy task.
- Allowing to "book" things in the store (maybe paying, I don't know, 30-50% of the cost of the item at booking), for later shipping. Then, when you have enough "booked" items to make a sizable order, you confirm it for shipping, pay the difference, and get it shipped. This would do nothing to the "small orders problem", but would make life easier for someone trying to put together multiple things for a single shipment. Of course, this would also be an administrative complication for DF, also because restocks do not come monthly, so this could mean keeping things "booked" for months.

Maybe there are other solutions.. Hoping one is found :-)

Cheers

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dice4hire
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Re: VAT and import fees

Post by dice4hire » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:49 am

I agree. If I am not gonna spend at least 500 I do not order from DF USA. Luckily I can get some stuff from Japan here in asia, and the prices on that are very good shipping wise.
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NiandoBG
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Re: VAT and import fees

Post by NiandoBG » Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:55 am

HeroQuestFrance wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:08 pm
I've stopped buying things to the USA and unfortunately to DF as I previously said.
Why ?

Here are the fees to ship a basic set are higher than the item itself :

Sci-Fi Starter Set 1x $ 59.00
Shipping $ 77.00
______________________________
Total USD $ 136.00

I cannot handle
- the original price : 59
- packaging 77 (multiplying the final price by twice)
- 20% of VAT (around 27€ on the total) + 28€ Added of the "custom file"
It gives a total of 200€ for an 59$ item.
Hi HeroQuestFrance,

Sad to read how much the price mark up in France is. :(
It seems that France charges very high on custom duty. :(
In that case I’m happy to live in Germany.
The mark up for shipping in both countries seems roughly the same.
Therefore, if you can afford to buy in bigger quantities the shipping costs per item will decrease. My last 870$ order had 130$ shipping cost.

But your post generates another question coming into my mind.
In a Kickstarter event all people in Europe pay the same price for shipping, VAT and custom duty.
But you show us that there are huge differences. On a full KS 6 deluxe pledge (which I can not afford) this can be several hunderts dollar difference which are not taken into account by the actual pricing policy. :!: :?:

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AnimeSensei
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Re: VAT and import fees

Post by AnimeSensei » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:40 am

Sounds like this is a very informative thread. I hope our non-US friends here have an option for them soon. 🙁
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HeroQuestFrance
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Re: VAT and import fees

Post by HeroQuestFrance » Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:08 pm

I've stopped buying things to the USA and unfortunately to DF as I previously said.
Why ?

Here are the fees to ship a basic set are higher than the item itself :

Sci-Fi Starter Set 1x $ 59.00
Shipping $ 77.00
______________________________
Total USD $ 136.00

I cannot handle
- the original price : 59
- packaging 77 (multiplying the final price by twice)
- 20% of VAT (around 27€ on the total) + 28€ Added of the "custom file"
It gives a total of 200€ for an 59$ item.

So since buying a tiny package on DF store costs a arm, no need to imagine a bigger order.
It's over to me, I buy european trademarks (resin set painted or not) from great companies.
No VAT, a maximum of 30€ for an international package about 33 kgs.

DF was a nice adventure for almost 11 years to me and friends. But you have to understand we moved on on better offers.

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NiandoBG
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Re: VAT and import fees

Post by NiandoBG » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:58 pm

Just another story from Germany, to give you some more insights.

All parcel send by you via usps went through the custom clearance and I have to pick up the parcel at the custom office in my home town (happy to live in a bigger city that has one).

Parcels operated by fedex came directly to my house.
The did all the custom stuff and charged me with some extra money for their service.
I had no chance to decide upfront, if I want their service or not. They just did it.
But other wise I would have to pick the parcel up many miles away from my town.
So it seems to be the only way to get stuff with fedex.

The VAT is 19% of everything (including shipping) + custom approximately 4%.

Buying in bigger orders, my markup incl. exchange rate lies by roughly +24% compared to the original price shown in the webstore in US Dollar.

But buying in bigger quantities is dangerous too.
If I have a bigger order and everything comes at once and the price incl. shipping is over 1000€ than the custom office does not do the import declaration for me. Than I have to do it myself which is a nightmare in Germany. :cry:
The form you have to fill out is very difficult to understand. The documentation and explanations at the custom website is extensive long more than 300 pages and written in a language that someone with an PHD almost cannot understand it...

Maybe you can now appreciate every customer from Germany a little more.
The addiction has to be very strong ;) :oops:
It’s hard to buy and get the things and many potential customers are discouraged in Germany to buy Dwarven Forge.

I would really appreciate a shop in Europe and with good marketing I would assume that you could gain a lot of new customers in good old Europe. The RPG community is at least as livid as in US. :!:

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Re: VAT and import fees

Post by Lord annilhus » Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:18 pm

Hi everyone,

Here in France we have been charged VAT on all retail orders and shipping to 20%. Customs consider that 1U$ = 1€...

Example : if you have an order of 800$ + 200 shipping, you pay 20% of 1000$, or 20% of 1000€ = 1200€ which is approximatively 1400 $ :(

It's just a nightmare :(

Soon

Lord

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Re: VAT and import fees

Post by XarToth » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:00 am

I'm in the UK and the only reason I have any DF now is that the kickstarters include the fees so I know what I'm paying up front. I've had such bad experiences with random custom charges that I won't order from the US anymore unless the costs are covered up front. One example, I once ordered a sweatshirt for $25 and got charged the equivalent of $65 in customs charges on top of $30 postage. It just isn't worth it, which sucks as I'd love to order some of the back stock I missed the kickstarters for (I'm looking at you Monster Sewers!). I'd love to see the option to order from the web store with customs calculated and covered up front!

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Re: VAT and import fees

Post by LadySabelle » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:49 pm

Thank you everyone for taking the time to answer! It really helps.
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