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My DF journey (warning pic light – word heavy)
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TOPIC: My DF journey (warning pic light – word heavy)
#59054
My DF journey (warning pic light – word heavy) 1 Year ago  
This is my personal journey of discovering dwarven forge, just now owning my first pieces, and how I hope to continue collecting from here. Of course opinions are one 'noobs' only and with full respect.

Past:

It all started I believe over two years ago when I thought it would be cool to actually have miniature tables, chairs, barrels etc to furnish our D&D printed maps and cardboard tiles rather then representing such with dice and other things at hand. After a short google I soon discovered Dwarven Forge and the idea of buying furniture was quickly abandoned in favour of owning DF dungeon pieces instead.

I decided I wanted a cavern set + 2 expansions, and the room and passage set + 2 wicked additions. Now this is where about 2 years of frustration takes place. They were never in stock! They still aren't! Here I was wanting to spend more money on pieces then I have on over 20 years and 4 editions of D&D products and there was no way to do it. How a business that sells essentially nothing but dungeon pieces, can be more then 2 years without it's core sets and stays in business astounds me!

Present:

Then in March along came Game Tiles KS and it was time to jump in for 3 painted sets and 2 add ons because I figured it may be now or never. I've had them a few weeks now and yes I think they are great! I still would have preferred the caverns and I like the stone wall look better then brick but it was the right product at the right time. I do think the paint job skipped the initial grey base and was just tan feature brick + dry brush all over. Individually I think they look too black over all but together mine seem to become a more grey set up, as I feel a dungeon should be, so I'm fine with that. The secret door could have been a lot better, and is anything but secret. Now that I have started with dwarvenite, I'm not really that interested in the resin now and I will wait to set what future dwarvenite sets come out.

We are currently in wilderness and cavern adventures so there hasn't been much opportunity to really try out the GT in game (though I did just throw in a mini-dungeon to reveal them). The dungeon was quickly de-constructed as everyone picked up the pieces for a closer look! After all the ohh's and arrr's the moment I dreaded arrived...."what's the go with all the 'half-squares' at the walls?". Yep, I knew this was coming, do we ignore them and pretend they aren't there and off limits, treat them as full legal squares even though a miniature can't fit there, or use a squeeze rule? Now that is the true pandora's box my friends! I though the first 2 options were counter-purpose as you don't buy a 3D dungeon to represent the actual room the party is in to then have to pretend what it shows is something different. So I wanted to go with the squeeze rule but decided to make the penalty only -2 rather then -5 to attack. Sure enough there was mixed feelings to this and ofcourse the halfling rogue is "but I'm small size, I shouldn't have to squeeze". I can also tell you he doesn't like his +2 for flanking countered by his -2 for half floor squeeze either.

I know this has all been mentioned before and I understand the need for 2x2 sections but bottom line, we don't like the half floors. You show me one published D&D map over the last 20+ years that has half-floor squares and I will take it all back :)

Future:

This now brings be to the real reason why I felt the need to write this, my first entry to any forum....ever. Moving forward to a future passage way set, biowizards "windmill" design IMHO solves the problems and is perfect!

www.dwarvenforge.com/forum?func=view&catid=514&id=50834&limit=12&start=12

It can be used for passages as well as room pieces with full floors. Win-win.

As a newbie myself, I don't see the windmill being confusing. I think more credit needs to be given to the spacial awareness of DM's as you need good visualisation and problem solving abilities to be a successful one in the first place. We are also talking about generations of 'lego-kids' here so I don't see assembly confusion problems mentioned elsewhere.

I don't like the 45 degree corner walls and I think that is a mistake. I don't see me buying the 45 degrees unless I plan to cut them off square then detail and paint the sides. I might be flogging a long dead horse but after after holding my tongue here for months I just had to unleashing a 'noobs' perspective and passion into this long post. Please reconsider biowizards "windmill" design moving forward, it can be used in rooms as well as passages – dual purpose.

A piece that offers double the versatility also offers double the value to me as a product. Thanks for listening :)
Johnny Rocket
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#59056
Re:My DF journey (warning pic light – word heavy) 1 Year ago  
Welcome to DF!!! I have been a long time collector and from time to time I see posts like this or comments made over the last 17 years I have been paying attention.

May I ask a question? Why does there have to be a rule?

I have been DM'ing for 30 years and using either DF or whiteboards, grease boards, cardboard etc. Never once have I had to have a rule. I prefer the 2 inch square. I use a versatile table system that let's me put out 4 ft x 4 ft sections. I use various tools out on the web to design my dungeons and know that they will come out to even spaces on a 4 ft x 4ft table. That predictability is what I like. I admit that it could be useful to have those but in my 16+ years collecting and using DF I have never had one player have a problem nor have I.

In fairness I respect your opinion and do not mean to bash. I am sure Stefan will do his best to make everyone as happy as he can.

-Shadox
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#59064
Re:My DF journey (warning pic light – word heavy) 1 Year ago  
Hi Johnny Rocket,

Welcome to the DF forum! I'm glad you like biowizard's windmill design, i do too! ;-) I think Stefan is underestimating the geometrical understanding of new DF customers and I still hope he changes his mind. I guess that if more new Game Tiles customers were expressing similar preferences, it might convince him otherwise. Since passage pieces are by themselves breaking the modular system, we might as well do it all the way!

Regarding half-squares... There's no possible solution against that "problem". On pen and paper maps, it is easy to draw a thin line for walls. If you want to represent walls in a 3D decor system, they need to have some thickness. Many users decide not to allow minis in them. Others (like you) give a -2 penalty. In both groups I play in, we play in them as if they were complete squares. For us, it's no biggie if minis overlap a little. After all, on the paper drawn maps with thin walls, these squares are full. Anyway, to each his own solution (kind of like what Shadox says...).

Finally, I think the design of present diagonal walls are the best they can be given the Game Tiles approach of designing as few pieces as possible to represent the most setups. If you make a diagonal wall with "straight" ends, they won't be compatible with straight walls. Also, they won't fit anymore within a 2*2 modular system. Diagonal walls put side-by-side in a long row show empty triangles but may I suggest you use the other sides of these pieces with the half diagonal floors if their appearance bugs you?
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#59066
Re:My DF journey (warning pic light – word heavy) 1 Year ago  
I also liked the windmill design. As it stands with the half squares though, I'm just counting them as part of the square next to them. I kinda like the squeeze rule with a -2 that yur using better because to me it seems like it would be hard to swordfight up against a wall anyway, even if you weren't squeezing it could justify a -2 penalty. I never implement it though cuz I really dislike house rules and I pretty much play my games by the book. Also, I can't fit a damn mini there so I like just calling it part of the next square lol

Note: mine have not arrived yet but this is all my thoughts on it ahead of time
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#59070
Re:My DF journey (warning pic light – word heavy) 1 Year ago  
Johnny Rocket wrote:
ofcourse the halfling rogue is "but I'm small size, I shouldn't have to squeeze".


Personally I really wish WOTC back in 2000 and other game makers had had the balls to not do small character space mechanics half way. While it would have really changed the halfling and gnome races as characters, having small creatures have a smaller space such as 2.5 foot would have made more sense. But good or bad if your playing a game that sticks small and medium creatures with the same spacing of 5' the players may just need to live with it.

If you like you might consider just using floor tiles with wall pieces turned around.

Either way hope you have fun with you DF.
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#59128
Re:My DF journey (warning pic light – word heavy) 1 Year ago  
Hello everyone and thanks for the replies. After reading many forum posts before deciding to contribute, I know I've got some big names commenting here which is pretty cool :)

Hi Shadox, I find I often make rules and adjustments in my games. One moment the party attempts the most harebrained stunt to later on try something of sheer genius that just isn't covered by the rules. I can't picture though bringing out DF pieces for the first time without as a group discussing for a consensus how to treat the floor spaces by the walls for everyone's clarity. Just by above alone there seems to be several different house rules on how to treat them.

Hi biowizard, you always seem to have a good way with words, much better then me as I think I chose the wrong description when I said I don't like the 45 degree corner walls above. I wasn't meaning the standard triangular floor piece with walls that came with the KS, I was meaning the proposed passage pieces you showed thus below (I'll try to attach):



that you use with a much better term of having “obliques”. If I bought them it would most likely be with the idea to cut the obliques off to more or less end up with your windmill design below though that leaves the straight passage that isn't so easy to convert below:



Of course all this seems a bit silly, if a new passage set is going to be produced, and it will be outside of the 2x2 footprint anyway, why not have it dual purpose so it can also be used in rooms? It seems such a wasted opportunity not to and surely I can't be the only person that would love an option for full square wall floors. Again, sorry if I am flogging a dead horse.

Hi jimibones86, yes that's the way I sold the -2 penalty, back to the wall. Hope you get yours soon too.

Hi kodiakbear, I've seen it mentioned about turning the walls around. I'm not keen on that idea as you would need a lot more floor pieces for each room as you would loose the 2 (1.5) rows of floor that is part on each wall to the outside. I also feel it would take away from the beauty of a dungeon setup to have redundant floor squares to the outside that look like they don't belong there.
Johnny Rocket
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#59129
Re:My DF journey (warning pic light – word heavy) 1 Year ago  
ahhh, got it!

Also, don't worry about expressing your opinion on this forum. Every opinion is welcome, especially if you agree with me! LOL

I must say that I'm still hoping the upcoming Passage Set will use the "windmill design". Perhaps if more DF fans such as yourself (especially new Game Tiles customers that barely had any chance to play with modular pieces) voice a favorable opinion over this more complex yet more versatile approach, Stefan might be convinced it would generate a better product and actually make it this way.
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#59142
Re:My DF journey (warning pic light – word heavy) 1 Year ago  
...You know you got my vote biohazard - The 'Windmill' four piece design would be superb imho.
+That is what GTs are all about - make lots and lots of the same piece to get the price down so DF can sell them to a wider audience. This ticks every box.
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#59146
Re:My DF journey (warning pic light – word heavy) 1 Year ago  
If you have 2x2 with walls on each side that means the piece takes up something like 2x2.5 (not sure exact thickness of walls) causing the dungeon to misalign
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