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Got My Tiles, but I'm concerned/confused.
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TOPIC: Got My Tiles, but I'm concerned/confused.
#57217
Got My Tiles, but I'm concerned/confused. 1 Year, 2 Months ago  
I received my pre-painted tiles on Wed, and I've finally had time to unpack them and review them. They look great. I think the paint job was quite nice on them, and they seem really sturdy.

However, I'm having a hard time figuring out the configuration of them. Let me try to explain:
It looks to me that pieces with walls would really on count as a 5' square (I'm using these for Pathfinder, if that helps), because the piece of the floor with the wall on it doesn't have enough space for a typical miniature to stand on. Is that how most people use them? I think I see why it's done that way, so that if you had a 10' wide corridor you could put two walls together and viola, you have it. Unfortunately, I'm trying to run Shattered Star, and I can't seem to make the pieces do the maps. Here's my problem: If a room doesn't have a door, but rather just a passageway leading out of it, I seem to have to pretend that the empty square where a wall would be doesn't really exist? So we can't count it when figures step over it, because we aren't using that row of squares (since walls don't count?)
thecakeguy
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#57218
Re:Got My Tiles, but I'm concerned/confused. 1 Year, 2 Months ago  
Which shattered star dungeon are you trying to layout? I'll take a look and see what I can come up with?

There's a large number of different conventions people use for the half/squares where there are walls. One of the more common ones is that it is an occupiable square, but that you are squeezing if you are in them.

Another approach some people use is to use a pair of backward walls surrounding a normal floor tile to make a 10' corridor.

However in general, you need to take a few liberties to recreate an existing dungeon. (I'm actually starting to work on my own campaign that is designed for DF (and several other KSers) that will be easily doable with the most common components.)
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#57224
Re:Got My Tiles, but I'm concerned/confused. 1 Year, 2 Months ago  
If you are just looking for a 10x10 hall way (2 squares) I saw a post on here where someone just used the floor tiles with no walls. They did that because they said with the walls things became too cluttered so that is an idea
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#57231
Re:Got My Tiles, but I'm concerned/confused. 1 Year, 2 Months ago  
if you use the shear side of two straight wall pieces with a 4x4 floor tile between them it approximates a 10x10 passageway. This allows rooms on both sides of a passageway. Good luck with it!

Like the center passages of Hagbard's map here: www.dwarvenforge.com/mapmaker/shared?mapId=f29ed730496a85d95bf39ed9f532794d2f8637c7
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#57232
Re:Got My Tiles, but I'm concerned/confused. 1 Year, 2 Months ago  
I count it as a square....I have found that in game play it almost never gets used...interestingly, battles always seem to happen in the middle of the room...monsters being surrounded by players...I actually give thought to giving players penalties to hit if they are in a half square next to a wall because the close proximity to the wall would hinder their swinging?
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#57234
Re:Got My Tiles, but I'm concerned/confused. 1 Year, 2 Months ago  
I think the walls had to be done that way to preserve the 2x2 modularity. Personally, I would treat it as occupiable and then choose whether you like the idea of penalties for being so close to the wall or not. If you need to modify the maps a bit don't sweat it. I would only give it much thought if it will impact combat or the story to do so.

Some of my favorite premade modules would never be able to be done in a 3D physical dungeon material without spending more money than I see in a year, so when I get around to running those I will be fudging a lot. But as long as I preserve the feel and the integrity of the encounters I won't give it a second though.
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#57236
Re:Got My Tiles, but I'm concerned/confused. 1 Year, 2 Months ago  
Yes, Lord dust the walls indeed had to be designed that way for many reasons, mostly modularity AND simplicity...

I have never really used modules, but If i did i wouldn't worry about the rooms being exact representations as long as the spirit is the same unless there were specific reasons for the sizes of the rooms...in the end they are all games of fantasy, and the tiles are representations only, not actualization's....I think...
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#57237
Re:Got My Tiles, but I'm concerned/confused. 1 Year, 2 Months ago  
We usually build the Corridor + Room before and Build the room after as the PC's get there. We tend to cannibalize the parts of the layout that are already explored to have enough components for upcoming rooms. Now that I have my 3 sets + my Resin Dwarven Forge sets I won't have to do as much of that.

There are 10' wide corridor sets available in the prepainted Resin sets. I was hoping that we would get corridor pieces during the KS. Perhaps we will see some 10'x10' Corridor pieces in the next KS.
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#57239
Re:Got My Tiles, but I'm concerned/confused. 1 Year, 2 Months ago  
there are a number of ways to get around this IF it becomes a problem. i have found in practice that while minis don't really fit into those squares, most of the mini will, and just know that is the square that mini is in. if your finding areas too cramped for combat try one of these methods.

1) expand rooms by 1 tile in each dimension. this will make it so the number of whole squares in the room is the same as it is on paper where walls take no space. you will however need to adjust your hallways and corridors to compensate though.

2) build your rooms out of just floor tiles, then surround the room with straight wall tiles. This means the slim space on the straight wall tile is on the other side of the wall from the room your using.

3) move the tiles around in the dungeon. if your in a structure where all the rooms are connected together (like say in a building), odds are you didn't put 2 straight wall tiles back to back to separate a room, you probably used a straight wall on one room, and on the other side of the wall a floor tile. just swap the two tiles so the floor tile is always in the room your doing combat in.



I have found the way to get the most mileage out of my tiles is to consider which rooms my party will engage in combat and in which rooms the space will matter, and make sure the walls are on the OUTSIDE of those rooms to maximize space (i.e. if i doubt my party will bring the combat in the next room into the hall, i don't worry that space is eaten in the hallway by the wall tiles, and use floor tiles on the other side of the wall to maximize space where combat will happen). If the space in the combat wont matter (like a combat with bandits in a large warehouse, or in a small room that only has one guard who's purpose is to throw a thunderstone to alert the complex then get milled under by the party fighters greatsword), then i dont stress about tile location all that much. but all in all, while when i first saw the tiles i had the same reaction, i find that with some clever tile placement, and a little bit of awareness at the table on who is in which square, the tightness near the walls is really unnoticeable. just my 2 cents, YMMV.
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#57242
Re:Got My Tiles, but I'm concerned/confused. 1 Year, 2 Months ago  
thecakeguy,

Welcome to the DF forum! Make sure to read as much threads as possible in the "Cool Photos" section.

It needs some "getting used to" before understanding fully the beauty of the 2*2 modular system. Using pen & paper is somewhat easier as the walls you draw are only lines. If you want a beautiful solid display, walls have to be thick and modularity of the "squaring" system requires that walls go over some squares. If you dislike so much the "half-squares", use a floor piece put against the back side of a straight wall. In a real castle, there`s no "empty space", each room is placed right to each other and there`s only 1 wall between each. This means that only 1 wall out of 2 in a full DF setup using Game Tiles has half squares. In a possible upcoming Game Tiles Passage Set, the corridors will be fully 2 inches wide, which will help making more and more half squares disappear. You could read the following links for more info:

www.dwarvenforge.com/forum?func=view&catid=514&id=51335
www.dwarvenforge.com/forum?func=view&catid=514&id=50834
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#57278
Re:Got My Tiles, but I'm concerned/confused. 1 Year, 2 Months ago  
Here is the problem

Most maps are done to appeal in 2D. Building them in 3D reveals problems.

Maps that don't match up height wise because more stairs up as down? You can do Escher in 2D - not in 3D.

Walls that are paper-thin

Beds, tables, chairs that are flat and don't take up any room?

The issue with the 'thinner' squares is the now widespread use of 1 inch square bases. Old bases often were smaller. A character still fits and I count it as a full square while doing Pathfinder Society play.

Stairs - figures tend to fall down as steps are too narrow - place them next to them.

Adding tables, beds, etc. this DOES change how a fight plays out as players don't put a figure on top of a bed or chair. You can often lose half the floor space - but you also get great rollplay - I jump up the table to gain higher ground or pick up a chair as improvised weapon. I have not seen this on a paizo flip map.

Bottom line - it is different - so work out what works at your table. Most published scenarios are not build for 3D. Actually I struggled yesterday with a 5 foot door placed between squares on a printed map for esthetic reasons.
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#57289
Re:Got My Tiles, but I'm concerned/confused. 1 Year, 2 Months ago  
U know what they should have did was work out a way to split the tile with the wall in the middle The squares may have actually only come up to like 7/8" wide to leave room for a 1/4" wall, but if that could worked out it woulda been great. Only problem i could see is that corners would only leave 1 square of playable space
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