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Sewers & Catacombs Add-Ons or Combo
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TOPIC: Sewers & Catacombs Add-Ons or Combo
#64842
Sewers & Catacombs Add-Ons or Combo 6 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
Sewers and catacombs keep coming up as future GameTiles projects.

But DF already has a catacombs lie in resin, and plans (already in or past the initial sculpting phase) for sewers in resin. I don't think DF wants to put GameTiles and MasterMaze in direct competition.

There are two approaches that I think might satisfy demand for these sets as GameTiles without significantly hurting the demand for the MasterMaze lines.

One, which has been suggested for sewers, is to come out with add-ons for dungeon GT. If DF releases open water packs (or if we use negative space and colored/printed underlays) then sewers can be realized with a fairly small number of new tiles, like grated wall openings, floor drains, and so on. Catacombs only need some sarcophagi and walls with loculi. It's not a brand new environment, but it represents the environment with the smallest number of new pieces needed, which makes it the cheapest option for everyone.

The other is to combine the two environments, like the RW tunnels beneath Paris or the passages under Venice in Last Crusade. This would allow DF to create a new environment that is distinct from GT dungeons (and the two MM lines) and satisfies two market demands. If sculpted and packaged carefully, sewer and catacomb elements could still be bought separately by customers who only want one or the other.

Thoughts?
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#64843
Re:Sewers & Catacombs Add-Ons or Combo 6 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
While I would agree with you jackattack about not competing between the two lines, there are some that just don't seem to care about that. I think your ideas though are a good start at a compromise between the two approaches. I think we will have to see how the June restock sells to see how much demand there still is for Master Maze. I suspect it is larger than 120 sets, but we will see. I don't know how much detail in dwarvenite they could make a catacomb set anyway as compared to the existing resin and upcoming Catacomb 2 set. While Stephan has done a tremendous job doing detail with the cavern KS he has made it clear that detail cannot be made as well as in MM. The other issue with dwarvenite is that they have to sell thousands of each set due to the cost of molds. I don't want to see DF go belly up either way by overstocking either line.
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#64848
Re:Sewers & Catacombs Add-Ons or Combo 6 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
While I understand the thought, I do want to point out many companies have lines designed to target different folks and thus seem to have competing lines that really are not.

Take Reaper as an example: Their metal figures lines and their bones line. Both are unpainted minis designed for RPG and Miniature games. Seems to be competing lines. Yet they are not really targeting the same client base. One targets those who want more detail and higher quality, but are willing to pay for that. The bones line offers a slightly lower quality and less details and have a lower price point. This same stratigy can be seen in car companies, hotel chains, etc. Higher end but more costly vs. lower end and lower price.

DF has offered a lower cost option to bring in some fo us who were not able to or willing to pay the higher costs assosiated with owning the Resin line.

But I also agree that if DF did elect to make dwarvenite versions of Sewers & Catacombs they should not just be dwarvenite copies, rather they should make the two lines slightly differ so that the third type of client, those who would buy both, would have a reason to do so.
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#64854
Re:Sewers & Catacombs Add-Ons or Combo 6 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
Okay... Leaving MM out of the equation, do people think that GT sewers and catacombs should be:

1. Add-ons to the existing GT dungeon line.

2. Separately packaged elements of a single new GT line featuring its own architectural style distinct from GT dungeons.

3. Two completely new and visually distinctive lines easily distinguished from GT dungeons and each other.
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#64855
Re:Sewers & Catacombs Add-Ons or Combo 6 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
Sewers should be part of the MBS kickstarter.

Catacombs may not be able to be made unless a lot of the alcoves are dropped due to the inflexibility of the steel molds. I'm sure the resin molds have some give to them and allow cooler alcoves. The whole idea might need to be reworked but I think it could be its own $1 million Kickstarter.
AnimeSensei
MBS and Catacombs in Dwarvenite, please!
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#64856
Re:Sewers & Catacombs Add-Ons or Combo 6 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
AnimeSensei wrote:
Sewers should be part of the MBS kickstarter.
This makes a lot of sense to me. Above and below ground in an "in-town" adventure.
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#64857
Re:Sewers & Catacombs Add-Ons or Combo 6 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
Great. Two votes for timber framed wattle and daub sewers.
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#64858
Re:Sewers & Catacombs Add-Ons or Combo 6 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
Sewers I see as being a 50/50 toss up between being a new line or integrating with current dungeon tiles. Either would work for me.

Catacombs could probably done if you used inserts to simulate the entombed remains, since recessed details on top of the shelves would be pretty difficult to pull off. Flat, empty shelves would allow for inserts, or anything else you may want to put in the walls. Question is, are the current dungeon wall widths deep enough to replicate a catacombs setting, do the walls need to be beefier?

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#64860
Re:Sewers & Catacombs Add-Ons or Combo 6 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
Would sealed slots - flat stone or plaster marking the location of loculi - work? Some might be cracked, or even have a skeletal arm hanging out.

Can slots be "cheated" so that half the skeleton is sculpted and half is "lost in shadow" inside the slot, which might be a very shallow recess painted dark to look deeper than it is?

GT dungeon walls are approximately 3/8" thick.
- At 25mm scale, that's 27".
- At 30mm scale, that's about 24".
An average modern adult male's shoulders are about 18" wide.
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#64861
Re:Sewers & Catacombs Add-Ons or Combo 6 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
Even though I am a Dwarvenite only customer, I can see the point of having Catacombs stay as a Master Maze only line. Unless Stefan thinks he could do a set as beautiful or better in Dwarvenite like he did with caverns. The only way I think he could do the catacomb walls is to have the walls with the openings (shelves) and have the skeletons as separate Dwarvenite minis to be added in.

As for the sewers I like Stefan's design of sewers and would love to see them done in Dwavenite with transition add-on packs for dungeon tiles and cavern outlets.

If sewers are not their own Dwarvinte KS then at the same time as a MBS KS.
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#64863
Re:Sewers & Catacombs Add-Ons or Combo 6 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
jackattack wrote:


Okay... Leaving MM out of the equation, do people think that GT sewers and catacombs should be:

1. Add-ons to the existing GT dungeon line.


I would prefer the sewers & catacombs to done as an addons to the GT.
This way I can use my existing tiles to bulk it out and use the addons items as accents to highlight the theme. I am after variety from smaller sets that will work with my existing GT and caverns.

I would not expect a dwarvenite catacomb set to have the same sculpts, just something "crytpy". This is the same for MBS and other sets, a dwarvenite genric version would be nice, save the extra fancy for the MM.

This might provide a distinction betwwen the dwarvenite and MM sets, As the dwarvenite addon sets would be less encompasing and need bulk from GT or Caverns.
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#64869
Re:Sewers & Catacombs Add-Ons or Combo 6 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
Space is the biggest limiting factor for my collection by far, so I would strongly prefer an approach that extended the existing tiles rather than creating completely new ones.
The fact that I can store dwarvenite pieces in a more compact form is just as key to me as the durability and lower price. I simply wouldn't have room for whole sets of tiles with more specialized themes.
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