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Any Semi-Official Updates on the Caverns KS?
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TOPIC: Any Semi-Official Updates on the Caverns KS?
#62004
Re:Any Semi-Official Updates on the Caverns KS? 5 Months, 2 Weeks ago  
Just noticed that on the Kickstarter page the ten set cavern layout is incorrected labelled as being five sets.
maximillian
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#62005
Re:Any Semi-Official Updates on the Caverns KS? 5 Months, 2 Weeks ago  
Regarding piece count...

Remember that the MM Cavern Set only had one straight wall sculpt, one floor sculpt, and two corner sculpts. The other 4x4 pieces were two conversions and an alcove. GT Cavern stretch goals have given us three variants of each basic piece (floor, wall, corner) and moved the conversions to a possible add-on set.

If we accept that pieces cost what they cost, then increasing the number of pieces increases the price. By keeping sets small and price low, more people can afford to get some sets, rather than being priced completely out of the KS.

I think there is also a balancing act going on with the ratios of pieces in the sets and stretch goal freebies. We are getting two of each stretch goal variant to nine of each main piece -- nine "A"s to two "B"s and two "C"s, or almost 4:1:1. If there were many more "A"s, the "B"s and "C"s would be lost in the average set-up.
jackattack
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#62007
Re:Any Semi-Official Updates on the Caverns KS? 5 Months, 2 Weeks ago  
Stefan wrote:

I would like to add that we are not done throwing in free pieces....it would not be so fun If we just threw them all in now and then had nothing to offer for the next 24 days....I am confident we are discovering new customers all over the world, our reputation had grown, and new pledges are continuing to come in...many folks don't even know this is happening yet...the last week of this Kickstarter will be grand...prepare to be blown away...keep the faith:)




I liked how you kept adding in free pieces the whole time in the first KS, I am glad you are doing it again. You are right it makes it much more fun.
kodiakbear
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#62011
Re:Any Semi-Official Updates on the Caverns KS? 5 Months, 2 Weeks ago  
I am in very mixed mind about this Kickstarter.

There are a lot of people throwing around numbers per piece, mastermaze cost, different types of mold / cast etc etc. Its the pictures below that tell the story (hopefully attached) and the story is.....We are paying more for a lot less!!

In case you forgot the first kickstarter that everyone said was good value it's here:

www.kickstarter.com/projects/dwarvenforge/dwarven-forges-game-tiles-revolutionary-miniature

Using myself as an example, in KS No.1 I bought 3 set of painted dungeons. Now forget about stretch goal pieces etc, no one will know how many of these total there will be until it's last days, and besides, KS1 had a lot of stretch goal pieces.

Anyway, 3 painted sets is now:


Before it was:


Base Set Summary:
KS1 Dungeon 3 set painted = $235 for 102 pieces ($2.30/piece)
KS2 Cavern 3 set painted = $285 for 78 pieces ($3.65/piece)

Note, KS2 pieces are 60% dearer, or KS2 is 22% more expensive and you get 24% less, and KS1 had 5 cast pieces (2 for the door), KS2 has only 3!

24 less pieces is basically a whole 1 set less....and the cost is $50 more!!

It is closer to compare THREE sets of KS2 to what you got in TWO sets of KS1 quantity-wise (68 pieces for only $170 plus another $35 LESS postage for international buyer's)

Yeah molds may be some what dearer, not that much I imagine, but that's a one off only initial expense. Carried over 1000's of casts and orders, that cost should have a minimal impact.

I imagine it probably has more to do with the age old 'supply and demand'. Dwarven Forge customers have proved to be so unexpectedly overwhelmingly supportive of the first kickstarter, and everyone loves the product, that the profit margins may have been quite inflated to advantage.

If the stretch goal pieces end up making up for the short fall by having more pieces then the original KS1 stretch pieces then I will be ok, but I am seriously doubting there will be as many as the first. I could maybe be ok with a price hike, or a substantial cut down in pieces, but I'm not so keen on both. A part of me says if we are all as loyal to KS2 as we were to KS1, I fear KS3 may cost even more for still even less.

Respectfully just saying that's all...they do look pretty though :)
Johnny Rocket
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#62012
Re:Any Semi-Official Updates on the Caverns KS? 5 Months, 2 Weeks ago  
There is another factor to take into consideration, and that is the time and preproduction cost behind these new tiles, and not just the amount of pieces you get in a kickstarter. They are sure to take longer to sculpt, research, and produce initially compared to the game tiles, and to me that is what we are seeing here.

I questioned the cost that would save you tons when comparing master maze to the game tiles earlier (on another forum). The master maze is only slightly more expensive unless you get several sets unpainted. That being said, to me the master maze sets are under priced to what you get (hand painted, high quality pieces) and I suspect the price raize will make the game tiles really cheap in comparsion (understandable).

I jumped on this kickstarter because of the way they look and to support the company (so they can make more new sets), not because I hoped there would be tons of free stuff. And I live in a country where I pay a huge amount for shipping!
Belakor
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#62013
Re:Any Semi-Official Updates on the Caverns KS? 5 Months, 2 Weeks ago  
Johnny Rocket You hit the nail on the head there.

That is one of the biggest reasons i'm holding out until the end. My 4 year old is excited for them, but i'm still rocking on the price as to the # of sets i'm going to buy depends on the add-ons. I'm not happy with the # of items in the sets either.

I understand the use of sliding molds and the price increase, but does that cut the production run down and increase the delivery date?

They increased the needed funding from $50K for KS1 to 100K for KS2 to make up for the cost of the molds, so why are we losing the count on the sets with that price increase? They should have increased the total finding needed to $200K, and we still would have funded the project.

That does tell me they are increasing their profits because we were so generous last time, but i'm still going to support them because they ROCK.
artcwolf
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#62014
Re:Any Semi-Official Updates on the Caverns KS? 5 Months, 2 Weeks ago  
There's shipping to consider too. Fewer pieces fit in a box on the KS than did the last.

I have no problem with the fewer number of pieces offered because I like the detail of these more than dungeon tiles.

Having said that, I don't like where they're choosing to put some of the rewards. Map maker is great, but I don't see it as a 100k stretch goal reward. That should have been opened up as a 50k goal when we were breezing through unlocks. Simply swapping positions with an unlocked piece would have eliminated all the negativity. We would now be unlocking pieces, which is what everyone wants at this stage in the game.

Same with the webs. Are they cool? Yeah, I'm a fan of them. Are they 100k and the million dollar unlock cool? Probably not. They might be 100k cool, but at $1M you really should think about something fancy. Again, simply swapping position and making them an early unlock would have eliminated a lot of people complaining.

Anyway, KS 1 was one of very, very few Kickstarters I've been happy with. And I was overwhelmingly happy with the entire experience in KS1, so when Stefen says 'stay tuned, it's going to be great', I have faith in that.
DungeonBuilder
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#62015
Re:Any Semi-Official Updates on the Caverns KS? 5 Months, 2 Weeks ago  
maximillian wrote:
Just noticed that on the Kickstarter page the ten set cavern layout is incorrected labelled as being five sets.


I don't think they have a 10 set layout on the homepage. They just have two layouts for 2-5 sets.
DungeonBuilder
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#62016
Re:Any Semi-Official Updates on the Caverns KS? 5 Months, 2 Weeks ago  
Two possibles that may not have been mentioned yet...

Maybe DF was too generous last time out, and the profit margin from the first KS wasn't all they needed it to be. Don't confuse grosses with net -- just because a vendor moves millions of dollars in merchandise doesn't necessarily mean they get to keep much for themselves.

With a kickstarter now, and a restock in a few months, it's very possible that DF has increased (maybe doubled) its overhead at the fulfillment center. A full container of MM is on its way, and that will likely take up most of the storage space DF has available. However many containers GT takes up, DF will have to order enough to fill the remaining space in the last container, and those sets will have to be stored at the fulfillment center. While they may anticipate selling out the GT sets, they need to plan for the possibility of having to store as much as two (nearly) full containers of product at the same time. And that doesn't take into account the possibility that they'll do another MM restock immediately after this one (which would be December or January).
jackattack
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#62017
Re:Any Semi-Official Updates on the Caverns KS? 5 Months, 2 Weeks ago  
I have seen a few comments mentioning profit levels for the Dwarven Forge company. My comment would be:

"more power to them"

Come on, really? They are a company. They are out to make money. Luckily Stefan also, loves what they make and what they do. Complaining that they want to make some money is just inconceivable. The whole point of having a company is to make money.

If I remember correctly (correct me if I am wrong), but Dwarven Forge was under the knife of possibly having to shut down because of costs and the high price of the product keeping it out of more hands (fewer customers). The Kickstarter pretty much saved the company so we can continue getting these great products.

So, "IF" Dwarven Forge decided to up the Profit factor a bit to increase more investment and be able to go longer during slow purchase periods and perhaps a bit more take home money, then that is MORE than reasonable.

Thank you Dwarven Forge for making a great product at reasonable prices!
Steven Carroll
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#62020
Re:Any Semi-Official Updates on the Caverns KS? 5 Months, 2 Weeks ago  
Obviously, Dwarven Forge needs to look out for their own interests. However, the current price per piece is much more expensive than the previous KS, whether we're including stretch goals or not. Either way, I will be buying a few caverns sets, but the final piece count will determine whether I buy enough to have a small caverns encounter, or an entire cavern setup. If Dwarven Forge needs to increase costs to make this endeavor worthwhile, I respect that, but I don't want our enthusiasm to be taken advantage of.
left4dead2acc1
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#62021
Re:Any Semi-Official Updates on the Caverns KS? 5 Months, 2 Weeks ago  
IF people honestly think that the increase in price is Stefan taken advantage of our enthusiasm to cash in even more, then those people do not trust nor respect him or the company.
Steven Carroll
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