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Any Semi-Official Updates on the Caverns KS?
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TOPIC: Any Semi-Official Updates on the Caverns KS?
#61831
Re:Any Semi-Official Updates on the Caverns KS? 7 Months, 1 Week ago  
No idea where you get this 30% number. People and math, I swear. The original KS main set was 32 pieces (34 if you count the 2 doors). The caverns set is 26 pieces. 30% of 32-34 is let's average and say 11 pieces. That means the caverns set would need to be more like 21 pieces, and it's not. It's 26, full sized pieces. A real number would be 20% less pieces.

Approx 8,000 sets pledged so far at $10 extra is $80,000 extra. But you're missing one key point here. With the first KS, the stretch goals of say, 4 extra walls or 3 extra floors, used the SAME molds. The stretch goals for the caverns KS use NEW MOLDS. That's right, to get all the pieces so far you need a NEW MOLD for each one! So, you get 3 completely different walls, floors and corners and that is three molds total (based on the past information that you can fit 3 full sized pieces into one mold). So, KS1, you had one mold for the base pieces, KS2 you have THREE molds for the base pieces. THAT is why it's more expensive, especially up front.

I have a feeling they will be extra generous with the amount of SG pieces, because the price of a bit of plastic is FAR less than the mold itself. Once they get the hundreds of thousands of $$ to fund the molds, the pieces themselves are a relative pittance.

Be patient! Double check your math! And don't be such a Debbie Downer. Go DF!!

Zen
Zenfinite
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#61832
Re:Any Semi-Official Updates on the Caverns KS? 7 Months, 1 Week ago  
I was thinking the same thing about the dollar. I know the US Dollar has gained significantly on the canadian dollar in the last year so I was thinking the US Dollar must be stronger, not weaker this tinge through.

When the exchange difference is considered, the increase price and decrease in pieces, the cost of this set per piece could be double, that is a huge difference.
Gryphon
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#61834
Re:Any Semi-Official Updates on the Caverns KS? 7 Months, 1 Week ago  
Zenfinite wrote:
No idea where you get this 30% number. People and math, I swear. The original KS main set was 32 pieces (34 if you count the 2 doors). The caverns set is 26 pieces. 30% of 32-34 is let's average and say 11 pieces. That means the caverns set would need to be more like 21 pieces, and it's not. It's 26, full sized pieces. A real number would be 20% less pieces.

Approx 8,000 sets pledged so far at $10 extra is $80,000 extra. But you're missing one key point here. With the first KS, the stretch goals of say, 4 extra walls or 3 extra floors, used the SAME molds. The stretch goals for the caverns KS use NEW MOLDS. That's right, to get all the pieces so far you need a NEW MOLD for each one! So, you get 3 completely different walls, floors and corners and that is three molds total (based on the past information that you can fit 3 full sized pieces into one mold). So, KS1, you had one mold for the base pieces, KS2 you have THREE molds for the base pieces. THAT is why it's more expensive, especially up front.

I have a feeling they will be extra generous with the amount of SG pieces, because the price of a bit of plastic is FAR less than the mold itself. Once they get the hundreds of thousands of $$ to fund the molds, the pieces themselves are a relative pittance.

Be patient! Double check your math! And don't be such a Debbie Downer. Go DF!!

Zen


That's actually a good point, that I hadn't considered. IF the stretch goals coming up included, say.... 3-4 additional pieces of something that's already been cast, and we could see those stretch goals well in advance (Jeff, are you listening? forget about sleep buddy) (lol) then the cost per piece would be justified. I think I see the strategy behind this now.

It would be really helpful if you could see the stretch goasl all the way to $2mil. I think that would really make a big difference in getting more people to join faster. Frankly I think if you put Stretch goals all the way to 3 mil, you might be surprised at the amount you end up with. Suspense on the stretch goals doesnt make any sense to me.
amykins3
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#61835
Re:Any Semi-Official Updates on the Caverns KS? 7 Months, 1 Week ago  
The problem with putting up the stretch goals to $2 million or $3 million is you have then effectively killed any form of control you have over the pace of the pledges. By choosing the amount needed per stretch goal as they go, they can speed up or slow down the tempo of the campaign to keep excitement up. Bones II had a problem with tempo as some days nothing happened. I really feel DF needs to have at least SOMETHING new every day, whether it be a new stretch goal, video, etc. to keep interest and momentum.
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#61849
Re:Any Semi-Official Updates on the Caverns KS? 7 Months, 1 Week ago  
[quote]Zenfinite wrote:
With the first KS, the stretch goals of say, 4 extra walls or 3 extra floors, used the SAME molds. The stretch goals for the caverns KS use NEW MOLDS. That's right, to get all the pieces so far you need a NEW MOLD for each one! So, you get 3 completely different walls, floors and corners and that is three molds total (based on the past information that you can fit 3 full sized pieces into one mold). So, KS1, you had one mold for the base pieces, KS2 you have THREE molds for the base pieces. THAT is why it's more expensive, especially up front.

Thank you, very much, for reminding me of this point.

It did make me wonder though, so please follow along for a second, cause, I AM going somewhere with this.

To make things easier, let's say that those new molds cost $10,000 each.

I know that DF is a cool company that does care about their backers and clients. I also know that if I was running a company, I wouldn't shell out approximately 40-60 grand, JUST to make stretch goals for those backing me. I would, eventually, use those molds again.

So let's assume that the Cavern sets in Dwarvenite, once they hit retail, contain only the 3 basic pieces that were initially offered up. However, those passages, and variants of the walls and floors would be contained in an add-on pack, or multiple add-on packs.

Backers are getting those pieces already. That is money we don't have to spend, later on, that others who purchase at retail WILL if they want a "complete" set.

What it effectively comes down to is that we are STILL getting a break on price. I wouldn't be surprised for a "complete set" to retail 35-50% higher.
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#61862
Re:Any Semi-Official Updates on the Caverns KS? 7 Months, 1 Week ago  
Zenfinite wrote:
No idea where you get this 30% number. People and math, I swear. The original KS main set was 32 pieces (34 if you count the 2 doors). The caverns set is 26 pieces. 30% of 32-34 is let's average and say 11 pieces. That means the caverns set would need to be more like 21 pieces, and it's not. It's 26, full sized pieces. A real number would be 20% less pieces.

Approx 8,000 sets pledged so far at $10 extra is $80,000 extra. But you're missing one key point here. With the first KS, the stretch goals of say, 4 extra walls or 3 extra floors, used the SAME molds. The stretch goals for the caverns KS use NEW MOLDS. That's right, to get all the pieces so far you need a NEW MOLD for each one! So, you get 3 completely different walls, floors and corners and that is three molds total (based on the past information that you can fit 3 full sized pieces into one mold). So, KS1, you had one mold for the base pieces, KS2 you have THREE molds for the base pieces. THAT is why it's more expensive, especially up front.

I have a feeling they will be extra generous with the amount of SG pieces, because the price of a bit of plastic is FAR less than the mold itself. Once they get the hundreds of thousands of $$ to fund the molds, the pieces themselves are a relative pittance.

Be patient! Double check your math! And don't be such a Debbie Downer. Go DF!!

Zen
I would think that it was obvious by those super round numbers that I didn't actually do the math, I just made a quick guess as I was typing. I didn't even know how many sets had been pledged for, or how to tell. I just guessed by the dollar amount the pledges were up to. $80,000 is pretty close to what I guessed considering, and there is still quite a bit of time to go. It will likely triple that.

And yes I did count the doors as pieces. I also just guessed on the percentage there, but now that I do the math it actually comes out to be a 23.53% decreases. Perhaps yur right that I shouldn't have counted the doors, but you could point out more accurate numbers instead of assuming i dont know how to do math. it was just a guess. My point stands with these numbers as well

I do believe you have a good point about he add ons using different molds though. I didn't consider that. That will make a pretty big difference if it continues to go like that
jimibones83
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#61866
Re:Any Semi-Official Updates on the Caverns KS? 7 Months, 1 Week ago  
Gryphon wrote:

When the exchange difference is considered, the increase price and decrease in pieces, the cost of this set per piece could be double, that is a huge difference.
exactly what I was trying to get at. Glad I'm not the only one. Zefinite does make a good point that could be a balancing factor though
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#61962
Re:Any Semi-Official Updates on the Caverns KS? 7 Months, 1 Week ago  
I've been pretty outspoken about the lack of value to this KS, and my frustrations about it. I got a good night's sleep yesterday, and my mother used to say Hope springs eternal, and assume positive intent, so today I am back on the YAY this is awesome bandwagon.

I think that I really need more information to be able to whine about. like how crazy Jeff and Stephen were during the last kickstarter and what they had to go through to get everyone's orders out in time. Which they did, and did a hell of a job.

I was thinking that after a lot of consideration Jeff and Stephen set the levels the way they are to try to get the pledges higher to make it worthwhile for their efforts. I would assume that if I were in their shoes they know now what all is entailed in making this KS a reality through manufacturing and shipping (I would assume this is the worst part. shipping and packing seems to be a pain). I have no idea how much they each cleared through this, but I would assume it was minimal compared to the outlay. maybe this time they need a little more $$$ to make it worth the effort. I can't fault them for that.

In any case I've got your back boys. My $1000 is staying in, and if things improve on the old freebie front, I'll pop another $500 in.

God Bless America, and God Bless Iron Man Stephen & Jeff
amykins3
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#61964
Re:Any Semi-Official Updates on the Caverns KS? 7 Months, 1 Week ago  
I realize Jeff and Stefan are both busy, but could we either get permission for someone graphically talented to make a flier for approval or get an official DF flier posted up? I have been in several shops in my area where no one knew this was going on. If I have a flier to ask them to put up I think it could help momentum a lot!
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#61994
Re:Any Semi-Official Updates on the Caverns KS? 7 Months, 1 Week ago  
Sorry I'm late for the math...

How about a quick comparison to MasterMaze Caverns?


The classic MasterMaze Cavern Set currently retails at $179. Counting only the main 4"x4" pieces that sit on the table, not the accessories that go on the tiles, and counting each of those as four (or a total of 64) pieces that's $2.79 per piece.

The new GameTiles Cavern Set has 26 pieces, plus 15 pieces per set at various pledge levels (except one set). I am counting only the main 2"x2" pieces that sit on the table, not the spider web accessory that goes on the tiles.
Two prepainted sets pledge at $205 for 82 pieces, or $2.50 per piece.
Three prepainted sets pledge at $285 for 123 pieces, or $2.32 per piece.
Five prepainted sets pledge at $455 for 205 pieces, or $2.22 per piece.
Ten prepainted sets pledge at $875 for 410 pieces, or $2.13 per piece. That's about 24% off the price of an MM Cavern Set.


These numbers will change as more free stretch goal pieces are unlocked. And the numbers do change if you don't exclude accessory pieces. But it is a quick and dirty comparison of MM and GT Cavern Sets, for whatever that's worth.
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#62001
Re:Any Semi-Official Updates on the Caverns KS? 7 Months, 1 Week ago  
Thanks JackAttack for the math....

I would like to add that we are not done throwing in free pieces....it would not be so fun If we just threw them all in now and then had nothing to offer for the next 24 days....I am confident we are discovering new customers all over the world, our reputation had grown, and new pledges are continuing to come in...many folks don't even know this is happening yet...the last week of this Kickstarter will be grand...prepare to be blown away...keep the faith:)
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#62002
Re:Any Semi-Official Updates on the Caverns KS? 7 Months, 1 Week ago  
I'm just surprised at the huge drop in piece count. They look great though
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