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Honest Point of View
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TOPIC: Honest Point of View
#50443
Honest Point of View 1 Year, 4 Months ago  
I am new to these boards but I have been following Dwarven Forge for a long time. I am an avid D&D DM and I also a proud owner of MANY Hirst Arts Moulds. I have spent many, many hours working on my craft and creating very unique pieces and game boards from the mouldings that I own.

This is not a plug for Hirst or anything like that, I only use the name so that others may be able to relate to what I am seeing from Dwarven Forge. One of the things that I always liked about Dwarven Forge is the attention to detail. It has inspired me to put a lot of extra effort into my craft so I could attempt to replicate the fine work that is displayed in many of the forums that I read and pictures I see.

On that note, I am very surprised that the Kick Starter project is made around the most basic of floor tiles and walls. Notice I used the word surprised, as I understand that the basics are essential for people that wish to set dungeons up on a large scale. I personally do not own any Dwarven Forge because the cost to ship to Canada is just too much in my opinion. If it wasn't for the shipping cost on the Kick Starter then I was going to place an order just to satisfy my long time curiosity on the product that I have always had a huge interest in.

I am very impressed with the apparent success of the Kick Starter project as it seems to have turned the tables for the Dwarven Forge company, and I always root for anybody who puts a ton of hard work into this hobby that many of us love.

I look forward to discussing many things on this Forum with all of you, as this seems to be a great community.
Vikoon
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#50445
Re:Honest Point of View 1 Year, 4 Months ago  
Dwarven Forge are not 'mass-produced' and therefore have been a bit expensive. The average RPG DM does not have them.

The kickstart is about getting the product to mass production levels and getting the product to the average D&D group.
Duncan_and_Dragons
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Starter x2 / Room&Passage x2 / Ogre Den x2 / Traps 1&2 x2 / Wicked Additions 1,2&3 x2 / Advanced Builder 1&2 x1 / Deluxe Room x1 / Octagonal Room x1 / Short Passage x1 / Narrow Passage x1 / RotA 1&2 x1 / Ruins x1 / Cavern x2 / Cavern Passages x1 / Game Tiles 1&2 x2
 
#50446
Re:Honest Point of View 1 Year, 4 Months ago  
Great to hear your views. You are not alone at having an element of surprise with the KS.
All I will add is that if you re-watch & re-listen to the video Stefan madkes some very key points. He really emphasises that he is almost saddened that costs of resin, shipping etc are so high. That DF have launched Game Tiles in an attempt to address this. Bringing great value, durable 3D dungeon tiles to everyone! Only by going mass production is this new line possible. This therefore is like a 'reboot', for all the right reasons.

Watching the video and knowing what little can be gleaned about Stefan & DF from mostly reading posts here on the forums over the last years, I can tell he is a really great guy. DF is a great company! It is really in the main about the fans and really for the greater good of our FRP hobby.

Welcome & well met!
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RSx8, DRSx3, DRSx4, CWPS, R&Px6, CSx3, CPx3, AB1x2, AB2x2, T1x2,T2x2, NPx3, WA1x2, WA2x2, WA3, CR&WS, CR, CLS, HSI, HS2, Rota1, Rota2, Rota entrance, Nest. Ogres Den(At last!) & various KS1 sets & Add-ons
 
#50447
Re:Honest Point of View 1 Year, 4 Months ago  
Ha! I was typing my reply and Duncan beat me to it & made the same points...
:D
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Last Edit: 2013/03/29 09:10 By dandare.
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RSx8, DRSx3, DRSx4, CWPS, R&Px6, CSx3, CPx3, AB1x2, AB2x2, T1x2,T2x2, NPx3, WA1x2, WA2x2, WA3, CR&WS, CR, CLS, HSI, HS2, Rota1, Rota2, Rota entrance, Nest. Ogres Den(At last!) & various KS1 sets & Add-ons
 
#50448
Re:Honest Point of View 1 Year, 4 Months ago  
Vikoon,

Welcometo the DF forum! As you probably know, there's a lot of great info/inspiration for us gamers and dungeon decorists. Stefan has said on the record that he likes HA products and vice versa for Bruce toward DF. They are different and possible complementary products. Stefan choose to stick to the simplest pieces for the new Game Tiles line to be able to assemble a modular dungeon that would appeal "to the masses". Lowering the number of pieces while increasing the number of casts of those same pieces is what drives the prices down. I've seen the intricate design you can do with the gothic line of HA molds and DF can do very detailed work (just look at caverns, better in my mind than the HA versions of caverns). Very intricate pieces would have less of a general appeal to the average DM and that's why DF started with the most basic pieces.
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#50449
Re:Honest Point of View 1 Year, 4 Months ago  
Ha! I was typing my reply and Duncan & dandare beat me to it & made the same points...
:D
biowizard
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#50450
Re:Honest Point of View 1 Year, 4 Months ago  
I definitely watched the video and I can see that Stefan is very passionate about his product and the services that they provide. I am also involved in the world of tabletop gaming and I have nothing "bad" to say about Dwarven Forge at all. I believe that they are a top of the line company and I absolutely love their product from a visual standpoint. (Which is all I have since I don't own any)

It is upsetting that the cost of resins has gotten to the point they have. I started using Dental Stone to make my castings with and even it has gone up in price recently. There is actually only one minor "problem" that I have with Dwarven Forge and it isn't even a real big deal, I think the way that I do things is just a bit different is all. But alas, I will save that for another thread and another time.

I wish this company all the success in the world, because Stefan clearly has the passion to not only bring forth a great product, he also wants to keep tabletop gaming at the pinnacle where it belongs.
Vikoon
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#50453
Re:Honest Point of View 1 Year, 4 Months ago  
Ha! I was going to reply, but Bio Wizard, Duncan, and Dandare all beat me to it and made the same points...
Stefan
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Stefan Pokorny

CEO Dwarven Forge, LLC
 
#50454
Re:Honest Point of View 1 Year, 4 Months ago  
....hehe...seriously, Thank you Vikoon for your honest speak...we are all hobbyists here and of the same mold....keep watching the deal as it will be getting better and better...we have lowered our margins as much as we can in order to offer a deal of a lifetime to get new folks into our hobby of using miniatures and marching them down passageways:) We are all brothers! I really believe that we are going through a gaming Rennaisance here and that a new generation of gamers are just starting now to be introduced to this great and wonderful pastime of ours...we must beat the drums and get more folks aboard:)

D&D and similar games are so great for young minds, teaching co-operation and creativity...thinking in order to solve problems, working together with others who are different than yourselves and who's characters have different abilities to solve problems for the good of the party? it's great stuff!

I am so inspired by this turnout and success!

I really LOVE what I do, and it seems I am not the only one!
Stefan
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Stefan Pokorny

CEO Dwarven Forge, LLC
 
#50456
Re:Honest Point of View 1 Year, 4 Months ago  
It's an understandable challenge -- and, hey, maybe an idea for Kickstarter Project Number TWO some time down the road? :)

I can see how the primary goal of the KS was to get increased distribution at lower cost, and simplicity not only makes that possible, it makes it possible to do something that's extraordinarily durable and useful for many purposes.

As a huge Hirst Arts fan, I've mostly relegated myself to looking at purty pictures online, because one move destroyed everything I ever built out of HA, and I know I'm moving at least one more time in this life. MAybe when I feel fairly certain I'm never going to move again, I'll try one more time. But either way, it just is too expensive and difficult to make something with HA that's remotely near as durable as the DF product. So at least from my POV, as a HA fan, I can see the KS as a clear response to my needs. It promises something durable. And, heck, during my move, due to my own stupidity in throwing away my original DF boxes, even many of my DF pieces took SOME hits -- not destroyed beyond use or recognition, but chipped enough that my OCD kicked in, coupled with my love of DF, and I ended up buying replacements for all of it! So, yeah, simple and therefore more durable makes sense to me. As does lower cost.


That said, there are tons of awesome complex detailed things that I'm sure Stefan and his growing team of sculptors could pull off. And maybe KS is the way to do it, if the normal DF channels seem less promising. A set with otherwise fragile details done in an even-more durable resin, at a therefore slightly higher cost, might bring in fewer people, but at least enough to make it profitable. I mean, there are people out there paying $200 for a single professionally painted Rakham miniature - I'm sure Stefan could find an audience for a high-end DF set comprised of even more outrageously detailed elements that cost a little more in order to make it more durable.
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"In every real man a child is hidden that wants to play."

-- F. Nietzsche
 
#50461
Re:Honest Point of View 1 Year, 4 Months ago  
First, welcome neophytes.
Many on this forum have voiced their concern and even displeasure that Dwarven Forge chose this concept for Kickstarter. I disagree. I’m looking forward to a comparatively inexpressive material that I can paint to my design and alter or customize as I see fit. There is also a good chance that if this line sells well it could subsidize other products and concepts as well. I can’t wait to drill a ¾ inch hole through a wall insert a length of painted PVC pipe and start making sewers with torches on the walls and slime covering the floor.
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#50465
Re:Honest Point of View 1 Year, 4 Months ago  
The Dwarvenite pieces use injection molds. These pieces have a high initial cost, for the $10K metal mold, and low ongoing cost for the plastic. As a result, these molds are best used for pieces that have high "print runs", such as basic floors and walls.

The resin casting and plaster molds of HA and DF are inexpensive, so their initial costs are low. However, the cost of casting, resin, and replacing the molds is higher than plastic. Thus, these molds are best used for pieces with low "print runs" such as exotic tiles.

I bet the DF posters are a "vocal minority". At conventions, most gamers are attracted to the DF and HA displays, but balk at the prices and labor costs. By making the basic pieces affordable, this should drive demand for the more exotic ones, HA or DF. Dwarvenite should make the entire terrain market larger, which is good for all of us!
ced1106
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