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Any interest in 20th century warfare terrain from DF?
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TOPIC: Any interest in 20th century warfare terrain from DF?
#9192
Any interest in 20th century warfare terrain from DF? 8 Years, 12 Months ago  
Well WOTC has released another game, and once again I'm off on a tangent...

Axis & Allies came out, and while I haven't had a chance to play yet, it seems like a decent enough game for quick play, something ideal for guys like me with no real time to devote to learning rules, working out strategies, etc. I pretty much get a few hours a week for games, so if I wanna play, it has to be something that will be fun with pretty much no prep time at all. This may or may not fit the bill, but it looks promising.

It's caused me to return to an old hobby, collecting 1:32 scale military toys from companies like 21st Century Toys, Unimax, Conte Collectibles, and various other places. Some of these guys make truly spectacularly detailed armor and aircraft, and there's a decent assortment of terrain out there for people with interests like ours. I've got lots of bombed out buildings and bridges, lots of figures, etc. I may post some pics one day, just to show how cool some of this stuff is to people who appreciate well-done terrain.

BUT it has me thinking. With all this fantasy/sci-fi focus, I'm wondering if people here would be interested in seeing 20th century warfare terrain at all. There aren't THAT many places that make WWI/WWII or Vietnam-era minis, but if there were, would there be any interest in DF terrain for it? Bombed out churches in European villages, bridges, med tents, etc? Think "Saving Private Ryan" -- a mix of indoor/outdoor, in many ways unlike what DF usually makes. I know that if they did it, though, it would be the best stuff out there.

I think it would probably be a bad business decision, so I'm not asking about that. But I'm just curious if anyone else here shares my interest in this. Certainly with A&A coming out, there's a vague sense of "testing the waters" about the viability of this sort of gaming -- there's a huge market of "contemporary" wargamers out there already, but they tend to stand apart from the fantasy/SF gaming crowd, at least in places where I game.

Just speculatin'. As I look through some of my collection, I can't help but daydream about how cool it would be to see Stefan try his hand at some of this stuff....

L
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#9193
Any interest in 20th century warfare terrain from DF? 8 Years, 12 Months ago  
Law,

I "Get" Your Question, and Understand that you are Exploring the Topic rather than Asking DF to Divert Resources... I Make this Disclaimer Because Others May Not Read the Post and Think that you are Sabotaging Future Efforts... I Get that You are Not...

Anyway, I Would Love some Good "Bombed-out" Terrain as Much of my Gaming is Post-Apocalyptic in Nature so there are MANY Times When I Need "Destroyed" Terrain...

That Having Been Said, MBA Does make a Few Nice Damaged Buildings (4 or 5 Different Models actually), But they are All Houses, it would be Kewl to have a Modular Set that Could be Assembled in a Variety of ways...

Were DF to Ever Do somthing like this though I would want it for an Existing Line First... It's a Kewl Concept though...
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#9194
Any interest in 20th century warfare terrain from DF? 8 Years, 12 Months ago  
I don't want to hijack the thread, but my comments touch on it tangentially (and some of the logic might apply anyways). I do have an interest in modern terrain (20th-21st century) at the same scale as current DF products. But currently that interest falls a bit behind my interest in sci-fi and medieval terrain. Also, I think that modern might be harder for DF to pull off than their existing lines. My reasons include outside minis support, variety needed, and perceived market.

For a while I've been wondering if WotC has any plans to do a skirmish game based on d20-modern. They've already got the distant past and future taken care of (D&D minis, SW minis), so it seems only logical that they'd eventually get into 'modern' minis as well (I'm thinking victorian-21st century). To me the Axis&Allies minis don't really fill the gap since they are a completely different scale than what I like to play with(although I'm sure someone will point out that the A&A minis aren't really any specific scale at all), coupled with the fact that they are limited to military items only. As far as I can see, the most likely reason they haven't made such a line is that they have no strong license that could help support it. SW and D&D minis both draw in buyers that don't necessarily care about the skirmish game or RPG aspects. There isn't a similarly strong license in the 'modern' era (at least not one that I can think of). If WotC (or some other company) did come out with cheap pre-painted minis, I'd love to get some modern terrain to go with them. If I can't get minis to decently populate the DF, I'm not likely to buy the DF (I never bought any of the sci-fi or dungeon DF until my collection of corresponding minis made me realize that some terrain would make them even more fun).

As far as variety goes, I think a modern setting probably benefits from (almost requires) more variety than sci-fi or medieval settings. Sure we all know that these settings are likely to have different looks at times, but we aren't surprised to see miles of dungeon stone that looks nearly the same or shiny metal starships (or space bases) that are cut from the same cookie-cutter. But in a modern setting, I would expect to see more variety: warehouses, offices, homes at a minimum, with concrete, carpet, and wood floors just to make things more interesting. It just seems like there would be more different pieces needed than in the existing sets. Even if you skip the warehouses and industrial offices (since the sci-fi sets can cover those passably well), there's still a lot a variety.

As to market, based on what I've seen the 'modern' market is a smaller niche than the sci-fi or fantasy. I don't really have any numbers to back that up, just based on what I've seen for sale in general from other manufacturers and the interest levels that I've seen expressed both among my own gaming groups and those that I've met at places like GenCon.

Anyways... to wrap up my thoughts... I'd love to see modern terrain from DF. I'm likely not to purchase very much of it though unless I can easily/cheaply get minis to use with them. (and prefereably at the same scale as my exisinting stuff to allow mix-and-match). Maybe they could try a modern set doing a limited-run with pre-orders like DoE in a couple years?
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#9195
Any interest in 20th century warfare terrain from DF? 8 Years, 12 Months ago  
G.I. Joe is owned by Hasbro (WoTC's parent company) and is popular, well-known "modern" license. WotC came out with a TCG of it, IIRC. I could see that being a bigger hit than A&A Minis because A&A doesn't appeal to kids, really. I would be tempted to buy some of the COBRA Command minis if they came out. Cobra Commander, Serpentor, Destro, Zartan, Dr. Mindbender, The Baroness, Major Blood... These are all cool characters that could easily be transported to the DF sci-fi terrain. Hell, that's all Cobra does is hang out in futuristic secret bases. The only thing that Hasbro needs to jumpstart their franchise again is a quality new GI Joe cartoon series (not that awful all-CG animation series they tried a year or two ago).

"And remember, knowing is half the battle!" ;)
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#9196
Any interest in 20th century warfare terrain from DF? 8 Years, 12 Months ago  
Another hit "modern" license is James Bond. The Spycraft RPG seems to sell well and who doesn't like playing secret agents? I have fond memories of running Top Secret! from TSR back in the 80s... I thought Spycraft was one of the best written, most inspirational RPGs I've ever read. Saying that, I never ran it, but did loot and pillage the rules for my D&D game. ;)

But who wouldn't want figures of Sean Connery, Pussy Galore, Goldfinger, Jaws, Scaramanga, Oddjob and the other various cool villains? Again, these could work with DF Sci-Fi and Cavern terrain, just like GI Joe. Most bases are inside volcanos anyway.
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#9197
Any interest in 20th century warfare terrain from DF? 8 Years, 12 Months ago  
To me the Axis&Allies minis don't really fill the gap since they are a completely different scale than what I like to play with(although I'm sure someone will point out that the A&A minis aren't really any specific scale at all)

I was wondering about that. It's impossible to tell the scale of the Axis & Allies from their website. I thought they would follow the scale of the SW Minis. Are you saying they do not? And that the two man machine gun team is really that tiny so it only takes up one square instead of four? That is so lame if it's true. I had thought about snagging some of the A&A Minis for Star Wars RPG use, but if the scale doesn't match, it's pointless.
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#9198
Any interest in 20th century warfare terrain from DF? 8 Years, 12 Months ago  
Personally, I don't have a lot of interest in Modern gaming. However, that could change if WOTC releases a D20 Modern skirmish game. Like Darksaber, I've often thought that Hasbro's G.I. Joe property would be a good candidate for a TMG, using a similar rules system to the Star Wars TMG. But anyway, I digress...

Are there a lot of existing games out there that would support a DF Modern set? For that matter, could a DF Modern set be built generically enough to allow it to fit into a Fantasy or Sci-Fi setup in order to cast a wider net of potential buyers?
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#9199
Any interest in 20th century warfare terrain from DF? 8 Years, 12 Months ago  
I think a Modern MM would be more for a Supers setting like HeroClix.
The problem with the HeroClix is that the game is not set for 1" squares; rather it is set at 1.5" squares.
The difference in scale could make problems for integration with other MMs.
Additionally, I am not sure if I like the "bombed out" idea.
It would loose the neat, clean and strong feel that DF MM products just radiate.

I agree with fiddy; the modern market is a super tiny niche market.
It normally attracts those who do not like fantasy or science-fiction, but have also gotten tired of the historical past arena as well.
Avalon Hill back in the 70s & 80s really pounded on the market and made some decent money in it; it was the fantasy games like Runequest, Gloriantha & that ilk that did AH in.

RAFM, which I do not know if they are still in business, produced a 25mm wargame for the Vietnam Conflict.
I am not sure if such a setting would be good for a MM set though.
Second World War would be better, but I am not sure if there is a good company left.
Historical minis have taken a big hit in the last ten years or so.
The Miniatures Page (TMP) still has a good number of Modern & WWII mini game rules still listed.
Maybe there might be kernal in all of the chaff there.

I think both the G.I. Joe idea and the James Bond/Spycraft ideas are workable.
Anyone have the capital?
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#9200
Any interest in 20th century warfare terrain from DF? 8 Years, 12 Months ago  
Re: Axis&Allies scale - I think the 'scale' has actually been one of the things I've seen complained about the most on other boards. I'm not a big stickler for scale as long as it's close to consistent, but those aren't even close from my quick glimpses. But I'm not big into the military recreations and I've heard that it's not unheard of for the 15mm minis to do that? I'm still a bit disappointed that they decided to do a different scale than they used for D&D and SW, but my bank account is happy because I'm certain I would have bought a couple cases if they fit in with the minis I already have.

Re: modern licenses - I'm not sure how I forgot about Hasbro owning G.I. Joe... :shock: That would make a nearly perfect fit, though it would need some additions to get me hooked. Sure there's a lot of military types, but I'd want some everyday people as well. I'm probably simply looking for too much from a single source, since the topic of 'modern' seems to lend itself to covering a wide variety of types. Other possibilities - Stargate? Buffy/Angel?

Re: the bombed-out look - I agree with RabidFox. I wouldn't want the bombed-out items (or at least definitely not to start with). That was actually the main reason I apoligized for my initial hijack (although looking back I guess I didn't ever actually state that).
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#9201
Any interest in 20th century warfare terrain from DF? 8 Years, 12 Months ago  
I've seen a lot of complaints about the scale for A&A, but I'm not really sure the people who expected DDM or SWM scale were really thinking things through.

This is a game about armor, about big tanks -- at SWM scale the vehicles would have to be about 4-6 inches long!

Actually, the game does aim for the same basic SIZE as the other WOTC games -- it just makes the tanks the default "normal" size and makes people much smaller in comparison....

Anyway, it's been interesting to hear people's thoughts about historical wargaming.

L
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#9202
Any interest in 20th century warfare terrain from DF? 8 Years, 12 Months ago  
According to the WotC Web-site A&A minis are 15mm... Now I Have Not Seen them myself, so I do not "Know" how Accurate the Scale is... Anyway, MBA (Miniature Building Authority), has recently Released a 15mm Series, which already has Quite a Few Models in it... (I Saw Some at Dragon Con A Couple of Weeks ago Where the Good Folks of MBA were set up)... The Point Being that Since the 15mm Scale has always been mostly Used by Wargamers Rather than RPGs (Usually but not without Exception), it Makes a Certain Kind of Sense that A&A would Use this Scale instead of the More Popular 25-30mm Frequently Produced by RPG Comapnies today...

As to the Idea of a Modern, Pre-painted Miniature Series being Produced by a Company Like WotC... Personally I Would Love it... BUT I Would REALLY hope that it Would NOT be GI Joe OR Superhero Based... The GI Joe Stuff While Kewl, Would Not Be that Usefull in Most "Other" Settings, And The Super Hero Genre' is Very Well Represented by Wiz Kidz already... Further, I "Hate" that Wiz Kidz Got the Licence to do Shadow Run, which is Probobly the Most Popular Modern/Cyber-punk/Near Future System in Use today... They Really Screwed up by Fussing with the Scale of the Miniatures Ensuring that they were unusable for Anything but their Combat System...

So if WotC did Go Modern, I Would really Hope that it would be in Support of their d20 Modern Setting...

I also Would Really Love to See Someone Pick up the Star Trek Licence and Produce Some Pre-paints from that... But that is a Pipe Dream...
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#9203
Any interest in 20th century warfare terrain from DF? 8 Years, 12 Months ago  
....

I also Would Really Love to See Someone Pick up the Star Trek Licence and Produce Some Pre-paints from that... But that is a Pipe Dream...


You ain't kiddin' MLV when you say that is a pipe dream.
Even FASA had to dump the successful ST: RPG back in the early 90s because of what Paramount thought the property was worth.
To do a mini game, pre-paint or not, for ST would require a company with an extreme amount of loose change and a fool's notion of success.
Why?
Because once it was successful, then Paramount would start to milk it for whatever they could and thereby destroy the game because the game is no longer profitable for the company to produce (e.g. FASA and the ST RPG).

You are not going to see such a game or minis MLV unless the company making such had some sort of leverage on Paramount to keep Paramount well behaved.
Rumor has it that is exactly what Decipher has on Paramount to keep them well behaved about the CCG.
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