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New Poll: What should the first Sci-Fi Accessories set be?
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TOPIC: New Poll: What should the first Sci-Fi Accessories set be?
#8946
New Poll: What should the first Sci-Fi Accessories set be? 8 Years, 7 Months ago  
The irony involved here is that I know many Sci-Fi gamers that have a "wait and see" attitude about Sci-Fi Master Maze.
They really do not feel that Dwarven Forge is committed to science fiction and are unwilling to buy in until the terrain set is actually self-viable.
Meanwhile, Dwarven Forge's attitude is that they must make a good bit of money to be willing to keep Sci-Fi Master Maze going and to add further sets.
Both sides have attitudes that do not work with the other, but both sides cannot succeed without the other.

RF*;

I fear you're right about the opposing attitudes, and it results in a REAL 'Catch-22' situation.
Unfortunately, DF is right there on the cusp of break-out/breakdown; Jeff, as COO, HAS to think 'bottom-line' as brutally as he can; if DF can't keep a positive cash flow going, they ARE dead in the water, and we ALL lose. Unfortunately, as you have said, too many SF gamers are in "wait 'n' see" mode, and don't want to spend hard-earned cash on something they fear may be (even after this much time and investment) a flash in the pan.
You and I, as confirmed Sci-Fi gamers, have a responsibility to DF AND our Sf community, to get the vote out! WE have to proselytize EVERY CHANCE WE GET to keep SF Gamers interested and investing in the future of DF.
Or, alternatively, we have to say "G'bye" to DF Sci-Fi, because Jeff and Stefan can't keep it going without getting a return on their investment.

SO, whaddaya wanna do? I'M going to preach DF Sci-Fi every chance I get, to EVERY GAMER I CAN GET MY HANDS ON! What YOU do is your business, and you can tell me if you want to, or not.

I'm REALLY not being harsh on purpose, but this is an ongoing debate here in the SF forum, and we MUST get off top-dead-center on this. Either WE push it, or WE sit back and let it die.

Right here.
Right now.

"Money talks, BS walks."

I've been willing to talk, to the tune of 6 Starters, 6 Passages, 3 Alphas (so far) and 2 Betas (again, so far). And that's just in Sci-Fi; I'mafraid to take an accurate count of my MM and Cavern sets and pieces.
I know YOU'VE been willing to talk, as far as your budget has allowed you to. NOW, we have to get everyone ELSE going.

Ideas? And I'm NOT just kidding; if you HAVE any ideas, I REALLY want to hear/see them here, so we can pass the better ones on to Jeff and Stefan for action. NOW is the cusp.

See ya!

Jim
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#8947
New Poll: What should the first Sci-Fi Accessories set be? 8 Years, 7 Months ago  
I think that's a sensible approach.

The problem is that DF and those gamers are just not connecting. DF could invest a TON in trying to please them and then they could all tell RF and the rest of us:

"Oh, I just got laid off!"
"My wife and I just had another kid!"
"My wife is leaving me."
"No, I don't like the color of the doors, I don't like the consoles, I won't buy."


And any number of other reasons. They haven't PROMISED to buy if DF expands, they aren't going to give DF any money for it, any investment capital. So why should DF spend money and risk the future of the company to please merely POTENTIAL customers who have no obligation to act on anything they say right now? They could change their mind, and then where would we be?

DF can't risk the company to get new customers who aren't willing to join up RIGHT NOW and spend the money to show them that SF is viable.

Right now, DF is a small company with a loyal following of 75% fantasy fans. If that means DF can't do SF, then so be it.

If anyone here is convinced that following business model X, Y, or Z would be more successful, and could allow for SF, then by all means -- raise some money, get a loan, start your own business, and do it. Talk is cheap. For now, those people who are not willing to spend money to show DF that there is a market for SF product, they are the reason it ain't happening.

"I would if it seemed likely that they'd make MORE" is just an excuse. There is no guarantee these people would spend given any number of possible circumstances. DF knows right now that certain things sell -- DoE sold, the river set is selling well. They've told us this. Why should they risk the company on the possibly empty promises of SF fans when the fantasy fans are willing to spend RIGHT NOW? I mean, a lot of us have given $2-500 to DF in the past week for a set WE WON'T HAVE FOR THREE MONTHS. We're paying them for something we don't even get for months, and SF fans who won't even pay for product DF is desperate to unload expect to be taken into account when considering the future of the product line? Puh-lease.

Money talks. Excuses walk. Anyone who wants more SF needs to get their friends buying. Excuses don't help DF stay alive.

L
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#8948
New Poll: What should the first Sci-Fi Accessories set be? 8 Years, 7 Months ago  
Well i spent more on Beta than i did on Cavernous Rivers... (and that was about $300 for CR)

So i have put my money on the table, would order another couple Beta and Alpha, but i just blew a bunch of money on CR. Honsetly there is right now too much stuff to buy, Will buy more later, but heck as L says above my current job situation went from very stable to shackey as all hell after just yesterday afternoons meeting.

I can't afford anything else right now.
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More Sci Fi Please, request a DEAD END for Sci Fi Passages
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#8949
New Poll: What should the first Sci-Fi Accessories set be? 8 Years, 7 Months ago  
Sorry 'bout your job sit, GS. I should also probably say sorry to everyone, I didn't mean to come off as too aggressive in my post. But I just felt like people who don't buy the product and expect the company to listen to them -- meh.

L
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"In every real man a child is hidden that wants to play."

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#8950
New Poll: What should the first Sci-Fi Accessories set be? 8 Years, 7 Months ago  
Dear Collectors,

It really pains me to read these discussions on the forum... Believe me, in a perfect world I would start producing a ton of Sci-Fi stuff right now...but it's true, I am forced to do what sales have dictated for the moment and go the safe route. If Sci-Fi sales continue or pick up through August we can take another gamble. I personally feel it's worth a shot. I have many kool ideas and I know everyone else does too. Keep the faith, until then let's try to figure out what would be the best thing to come out with for purely Sci-Fi.

Actually I know that will be very hard to figure out, but perhaps at some point we can present a few proposals and take a poll. I'm leaning towards a Set similar to the dungeon accessories set but perhaps bigger in size that would contain a mish mash of useful stuff like sick bay beds, computer consoles of various types, captains chair, viewscreen, chairs, transporter pads, etc...

For us it's not just the capital but also the time devoted towards projects...as you all know, we are a tiny company powered by the dreams of Geeks...

We are doing much better this year and as we get healthier it becomes more possible to devote monies to things that are not our main breadwinners, so anyway, overall we are looking up, just can't go full steam on everything all at once.

Sincerely,

Stefan.
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#8951
New Poll: What should the first Sci-Fi Accessories set be? 8 Years, 7 Months ago  
The main theme I am hearing from a lot of Sci-Fi gamers is simply this:
They WILL NOT buy until there is a competent Sci-Fi furnishings set out from Dwarven Forge.
They already suffer from hodge-podge Sci-Fi terrain as it is and do not want to invest in Dwarven Forge Sci-Fi Master Maze terrain until Dwarven Forge has proven they are serious about the line and that proof point is at the release of a competent Sci-Fi furnishings set.
That is the bottom line.

Many, many of these gamers are looking for a terrain system that they do not HAVE TO have a mix of things from a variety of companies which really overall do not go well together.
They point at my own layouts as an example of their complaint because I have to use furnishings from Tehnolog, Grendel, WorldWorks, Ebbles, UKG, GW, Microtactix and that is to name only seven separate companies that come immediately to mind; there are more companies whose furnishings I use.
What these gamers want are items from one source where there is a "unified" feel rather than the "making the best of it" feel when you use items from a variety of companies.

BTW Jim & L, I do "preach" the Dwarven Forge "word" with these people, but they have not seen the "sign" they are looking for so they refuse to "convert".
Seriously, these gamers will not drop a dime on Sci-Fi Master Maze until there is a serious Sci-FI furnishings set released.

What "serious" means differs slightly among them though.
Some would be pacified with the release of three "rooms" of furnishings like in the colored box format like the first three Sci-Fi Master Maze sets.
The big votes of folks of this ilk are for: command deck, engineering deck and sickbay sets.
As one can see, they are mostly starship gamers with a lot of Star Wars, Star Trek and Babylon 5 fans mixed into the group.

The other and larger group are the ones who first suggested to me the double layer Dwarven Forge white box release idea that I posted earlier about.
Stefan, some of these players have been keeping their eye on Dwarven Forge since the late 90s waiting for a Sci-Fi terrain line from y'all
They are mainly players of ground based (Gro-Po) games: BattleTech universe, Vor, Shadowrun DMZ, Kryomek, Dark Passage, and Warhammer 40K/Space Hulk to only name a few of the games they play.
They are looking for furnishings for the facilities they are going to assault in an adventure/scenario.
That view necessitates a larger set of furnishings available up front for success.

BTW Stefan, this Gro-Po group is also very interested in Sci-Fi Master Maze Advanced Builder and Narrow Sets.
They do NOT want to see these sets though before the Sci-Fi furnishings set comes out.

Honestly, I am not quite "blue in the face" yet with preaching at them JK & L, but further gaming advertising is near useless with these folks without that Sci-Fi furnishings set.
I cannot imagine these Westerners being of a completely separate mindset from a lot of gamers out there around the globe.
It truly makes me wonder how many Sci-Fi sales Dwarven Forge is not getting simply because of the lack of a decent Sci-Fi furnishings set.
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SF: Starter(3), Passage(2), Alpha(7), Beta(2) someday soon;
Cavern: Cavern, Cavernous Passages, many individual pieces, Cavernous River & Wall and Cavernous Lake someday soon;
Fantasy: Room & Passages, Room, Octagonal Room, Wicked Additions I&II, Adv. Builder, Diagonal Walls Set, Dungeon Accessories, Medieval Furniture, many individual pieces.
 
#8952
New Poll: What should the first Sci-Fi Accessories set be? 8 Years, 7 Months ago  
Well, I can say I've convinced several friends to buy sci-fi (and they have bough bwahaha) , although I by myself don't buy at all. I'm a fantasy fan and I'm interested only in Fantasy (I would like to have the budget to be "interested" in both but... sorry)

Anyway, what do you think about this?: perhaps DF is making profit from Fantasy (the line who gives the more money right now) until they have extra money to risk in Sci Fi. I think they are aware of the situation RF has said. So... they cannot risk all the company, as sais L, trusting this standing potential buyers will respond and buy when enough variety of the sci fi product is in the market. But perhaps, focusing in new releases of Fantasy will give the budget to take risks in the market... what do you think? could it be?

I have to say that, perhaps I'm not a sci-fi buyer right now, but hey, I like it, and I do mind that it is in the market. Hope it gives money to DF and all that stuff but.. really I do want it to be on the market! It's a great product, and you never know... perhaps the future will be time to get some sci fi...

So, perhaps is the time to stop thinking in two groups sci-fi / fantasy... there is only one DF company...

Just a thought, Sci-Fi DF gamers and Fantasy gamers are part of the same. We will sure feedback each others. Oh yeah, I would like to have many sets right now, but it's not possible... let's DF make it their way...

Greetings to all!
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I want my DF Spiderweb Accesories Set!!! ^O^U
 
#8953
New Poll: What should the first Sci-Fi Accessories set be? 8 Years, 7 Months ago  
It does look like DF will be issuing a SF furnishings set relatively soon... maybe that will help. If the sales really turn around, the SF folks could be in for some nice surprises...

I bought the SF sets when they showed, but not that many of them -- I preached the word where I could, but I'm not a hardcore gamer, so I doubt I had much effect. I certainly talked it up at the SWM boards whenever the chance arose. What I heard there was complaints about price more than anything else. People liked what they saw, but as gamers they didn't see the need to spend much when the game already has a flat map. *cough* sigh

Personally, I haven't picked up Beta yet, but I still intend to at one point. Money and space are BOTH kinda tight for me, and with so much else being pumped out, I've had to promise my wife that I'd draw the line SOMEWHERE. DoE, river set, lake set, "surprise" set, etc... . something had to go. :(

L
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#8954
New Poll: What should the first Sci-Fi Accessories set be? 8 Years, 7 Months ago  
Does anyone here on the boards play Heroclix? I don't, but it seems to me that the Sci-Fi sets are a natural fit for that game. Has anyone tried spreading the word on the WizKids message boards?

The thing is, we spend a lot of time talking up Dwarven Forge on these message boards, but we're preaching to the converted. We need to go out there and spread the word as much as we can (and I know some of us are) if the Sci-Fi line is going to succeed. The more people we bring in, the less the wait-and-see gamers will matter in terms of expanding the line, and more the line expands, the more wait-and-see gamers will come onboard.

So, I suggest we organize, spread out on the web, and talk to people about Dwarven Forge as much as possible. I know the market is out there. All we have to do is bring it in.
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#8955
New Poll: What should the first Sci-Fi Accessories set be? 8 Years, 7 Months ago  
I've done my part and tried to spread the word, on varsious other websites and message boards but i always hear the "it costs too much".

On most all of them i will then go into a rather detailed cost/benefit break down of DF over what ever other thing people are saying is better, and leave it up for them to decided in the end, and directing people to the Terrasourus website and the great comparison of Hirst Arts to DF (becuase that is one of the biggest well i can do all of that with HA or X), or a break down of the Cost per item/coverage of DF to Anisty (about the same in cost actually between DF and Anisty) becuase Anisty is The next biggest producer of Sci Fi Terrain that at all resembles what DF is (a modular Resin construct). There are other products, Ebbles, WWG, S-E (defunct), Micro Tactics etc., and i do a fair assesment of what ever the comparison is, i've used all of them, and will continute to becuase personally i Don't mind a somewhat "hodge Podge" look becuase different worlds, settings civilizations (in my choice of Play Universe) all can and should have a different look to them, and for me a not so "unified" look is needed or in some cases desired, but that is my out look, and YMMV.

And this isn't to say i do want things, but honsetly with the current upscale in DF's prodcution of many Cool sets, I'm in arsthein situation, i Would love to get More DoE, More CaveRiver, and More Caves basic, and More Beta, and More Alpha, and more Starter Room Sets. Price is an issue on these. GenCon may be out becuase i might not be able to afford it, The "suprise set" is most likely going to be out of the question as well (i'm hoping some one in the group gets it, our new long time player and DM for a differnet game is now running a D&D group, last week he used the map, and after about 6 months off from D&D, which was spent with SW in DF, it was so plan and blah to see a chessex map and markers lines and not 3D, but minis all over many lovingly painted and just a borring bland set up. I ran into the DM the other night after comming back from helping the other Player build the monster gaming table, and the new DM seemed Excited he has always looked at DF but never bought it, he was thinking about trying to pool money frm players to buy more and cut costs... so the group might be going in for more...) but i am kind of glad DF isn't putting out another set i want to buy after purchasing multiples of the two latests so close. I need time to rejuvinate the Bank account. I can Wait for another Sci fi, i would prefer too so i can have the $ to buy it.
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More Sci Fi Please, request a DEAD END for Sci Fi Passages
Classes of the Old Republic
Some RPG and mini stats including the Exodus and AAT (along with good source of a Mini scale version of the AAT).
 
#8956
New Poll: What should the first Sci-Fi Accessories set be? 8 Years, 7 Months ago  
I already sorta said as much, but cost is the one, primary, central, most common factor I hear raised against the purchase of DF.

That's why when the price started to creep up, I sounded a small alarm to indicate that if DF wants to grow, they need to find a way to keep costs DOWN, and that nothing else would matter if that weren't brought under control.

Unfortunately, it's looking more and more like DF is just a very small niche product. It may not be ABLE to grow. Fact is, we're in a small niche of a small niche of a small niche here.

Most people simply don't care about gaming terrain. It's an odd thing to care about. First of all, many people simply don't game. But within that hobby, you basically have people interested in RPGs and people interested in wargaming. RPG players like to use their imagination and don't feel the need for terrain -- at MOST, some kind of basic minis to show spatial relationships are on some occasions helpful. Wargamers care a little about terrain, but frequently get by with cheap, preprinted maps, or with basic stuff they can get or make for cheap. If they REALLY care, the fact is they probably have a venue with professional-quality, impressive terrain they neither have to buy nor store, so it simply isn't an issue. If you wargame, you do it somewhere, and that place probably has huge tables. Plus, wargames tend to be "outdoor" locales, not necessarily suited to things like DF.

Short version: RPG fans don't really need ANY physical product to play beyond the core rulebooks, and wargamers care more about minis than the grass they're standin' on.

So to find someone who cares at ALL is a task -- then to find someone willing to make terrain purchases a sizeable part of their budget....?

Without the interweb, I doubt DF would even exist. 20 years ago, this sort of product could probably not happen. There are simply too few of us interested, and without something like the net to keep us together, it would be near impossible to find a sizeable enough market to stay in business.

So I wonder whether the company can ever grow that much. SOME people can be brought in, sure, but I wonder if enough could come to make much of a difference. The SF line might grow a lot, and maybe enough SF gamers are out there to really turn things around. But the impression I've gotten is that this is a niche product for a small but loyal band of fans, and that the nature of the product makes it unlikely that it's ever going to grow that much.

I say this as a professional philosopher, btw -- DF, like philosophy, is simply never going to appeal to the majority of people. You have to get used to that idea.

L
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#8957
New Poll: What should the first Sci-Fi Accessories set be? 8 Years, 7 Months ago  
But the impression I've gotten is that this is a niche product for a small but loyal band of fans, and that the nature of the product makes it unlikely that it's ever going to grow that much.
That Describes most of Sci-Fi in regards to RPG products, and even in some aspects Wargaming, while I am sure RabidFox* would be one to point out that Sci-Fi is popular within the Sci-Fi Genere it is Very Niche as to what Verse you are in. I play SW, RabidFox plays BattleTech, Some people play Traveler, others StarShip Troopers, Gamgs of Mega City One, WH40K, i could go on. But within in each of those verses they have a look and feel that doesn't always translate to another, making SF very niche.

Df did a great job making pretty Generic Terrain, but Sci-Fi will always be niche byit's nature, Sci-Fi covers the Futureistic, while Fantasy tends to coverthe past. And for many Fantasy settings the vision of the past is more common becuase they many based on the same thing fantasy will always have a bigger market becuase it can cross easier. For me honestly I want to see more SciFi sets but 1-2 a year is fine by mine, with the increase in products to buy i would like to have a chance to get everything. i have no problems waiting, if i know it will be done at some point, i have patience.
Ghenghis Ska
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More Sci Fi Please, request a DEAD END for Sci Fi Passages
Classes of the Old Republic
Some RPG and mini stats including the Exodus and AAT (along with good source of a Mini scale version of the AAT).
 
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