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What people are saying about Sci-Fi
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TOPIC: What people are saying about Sci-Fi
#8190
What people are saying about Sci-Fi 9 Years ago  
Over at the SW minis board, people were talking about DF. One person had this story to tell:

"At Origins ... I eneded up buying a pretty large quantity of these things, I asked the company owner if they were going out of business or were they just not going to make the Sci-Fi stuff anymore. He didn't say exactly, but the feeling I got by reading between the lines was that they were going to discontinue the Sci-Fi stuff and all they were trying to do was move the last of their inventory. If you are interested in buying, I would say now is the time, the opportunity may not exsist in the very near future."


So -- this is obviously rumor, and I am in no way saying that this is happening.

But this is what people THINK are happening, which is interesting. I am not sure how it impacts sales, but it's been suggested that sales drop if people think you're abandoning the idea. Ah well. I don't know why the SF stuff didn't sell more, especially with both SW minis and Starship Troopers showing up so soon after.

Hm.

L
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#8191
What people are saying about Sci-Fi 9 Years ago  
The guys I went to Origins had the same thought about the company. They thought that since everything was on sale for so much off the regular prices that DF must be going out of business or at least are in some sort of financial difficulty.

Of course we all bought a bunch of the minis and dungeon accessories that we wouldn't normally have bought so we did put some money back into the company!
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#8192
What people are saying about Sci-Fi 9 Years ago  
The Owner of the One Game Store that I Travel out of Town to Buy DF from Is also Under the Impression that the Sci-Fi stuff is "Gone" already... And was Telling me that he Thought The Whole Company was Going out of Business... I Told Him that I Did not THink that DF itself was Going anywhere, but I Have to Admit that the Answers to the Question of the (Pardon the Pun), "Future" of the DF Sci-Fi Line have been Kind of Vague around here...
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#8193
What people are saying about Sci-Fi 9 Years ago  
The fact that they still have SF sets available is a bad sign. At $25 a piece, even less at the cons, they simply can't be making money off them. If they can't unload them at a loss, I seriously doubt they're going to put much effort into the line.

I'd say it's probably dead in the water. So much enthusiasm for DoE, so much enthusiasm for the underground lake set -- and the SF stuff just gathers dust.

Shame, really. I love the SF stuff. But you can't argue with the market. Maybe DF could have gone about things differently, but I doubt it would have helped. At this point, the word is out, the price is right, and it STILL doesn't seem to be working...

L
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#8194
What people are saying about Sci-Fi 9 Years ago  
It could be that two many of the original sets were ordered and that the sci fi sets will be ordered in small quantities in the future.

Another theory is that with the half price sale..more people will have sci fi sets, and want to expand it, and thus newer sets may sell stronger initially.

All just speculation.

Robert
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#8195
What people are saying about Sci-Fi 9 Years ago  
I am wondering if not using the traditional Dwarven Forge size sets is hurting the case for SF MM.
How many of those vents or ramps does one really want or need versus all of the other pieces that have real usefulness?
The slowness of additional releases cannot be helping either.

The major killer on this line is that DF did not also come out with any furnishings when the Starter and the Passage set came out.
Repeatedly, I have heard persons say, "Why buy DF SF MM when they have not come out with any furnishings to make it useful?"
I counter that one can get furnishings elsewhere either in resin or paper.
I am then countered that they can also get 3D SF passages and rooms elsewhere with furnishings and not have to buy from two companies to get what they want.
I then counter that it is all in paper in the US or mega shipping from the UK for resin.
I am then countered with, "At least they have furnishings that are designed specifically to go with the terrain and why waste money when DF is not serious about breaking into the 3D SF terrain market?"

I cannot successfully counter their arguments because DF HAS NOT come out with furnishings and DF's behavior towards their SF MM really IS NOT serious about breaking into the SF genre.
I am fairly happy with my SF MM, but I must agree that DF really screwed the pooch as far as making the SF MM THE thing for 3d SF terrain.
I hate to say that, but what I have seen at cons and stores and read here and elsewhere backs up those naysayers out there.

I really wonder if Jeff or anyone at DF actually play any SF game.
From DF behavior, it seems like no one there really has any SF enthusiasm and as if the SF MM was only made due to a good number loud talkers over the years like myself.
If so, they should have hired an SF enthusiast to help create and then to market the SF MM.
It could have been a major money maker if it had not been so neglected!
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#8196
What people are saying about Sci-Fi 9 Years ago  
I don't think sci-fi has been neglected at all. They put out three sets fairly quickly, then delayed a fourth. There aren't any accessories yet, but a reasonably web savvy player (or one who reads these boards) can find third party ones fairly easily (as you pointed out). Granted, official DF accessories would be a welcome addition to the line, but I don't think their absence counts as neglect.

A lot of posters on this board seem to think of DF the same way they think of WOTC or WizKids. But DF is not a big corporation with lots of different product lines to bring in income. DF is pretty much a one trick pony (a term I use with no disrespect, because the trick they do is a doozy!) Adding another product line to their repertoire is a tremendous risk, especially when it doesn't leverage a large portion of their established fantasy user base.

Also, Sci-Fi is not dead. Unless I missed something, DF has not announced that the line is going away. They're selling them cheap, which could mean a number of things. First, they may need ready cash to create new product lines (like the Cavernous Water set that everyone is going nuts for.) Second, they may be just breaking even on the sets in order to spread them around and generate more response. The release of Beta may hinge on that response. Third, there may be some other short-term financial need they're not disclosing (and why would they? They're a private company.) Fourth, and no more likely than the others, the line might be going away. Yes, it's a possibility, but I don't think it's a likelihood.

DF is a small company. They may be 100% serious about breaking into the sci-fi market, but their financial picture may not allow it. They're trying new things, like offering sets exclusively on the web, which I think point to a desire to grow their business both in terms of product lines and profitablilty. If we're patient and continue to support the company while we make our desires known, I'm sure the sets we want will become a reality.
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#8197
What people are saying about Sci-Fi 9 Years ago  
Reaaaaaaaaaaaaaly hoping they are continuing the line, so far i love the Sci Fi set, Which reminds me have to put up the pictures from last weeks game, which actualy has a mix of both Paper and DF.

I like it all and have to admit i want the line to continue, as it stands now for my needs i have most of what i want with the two basic sets and, and enough of the Alpha to add some spice. Furhter advancement in the line would get me to increase purchase of the orignal sets becuase then i would have a reason to make even bigger set ups, with the new peices an a few add ons....

I had to resort to Anisty to get some scenery bits, and while some of it works great, the bunks and some of the other stuff. I really don't like the miss match in scale with some of the based floor bits. I would prefer some scaled DF items. And would LOVE to see a freakin Table and chairs!
I am at the point where i am starting to make a few chairs of my own, just becuase i haven't found just a table and chairs any where. I have gotten a few table like things, but still need chairs... :cry:
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More Sci Fi Please, request a DEAD END for Sci Fi Passages
Classes of the Old Republic
Some RPG and mini stats including the Exodus and AAT (along with good source of a Mini scale version of the AAT).
 
#8198
What people are saying about Sci-Fi 9 Years ago  
I'm kinda fascinated by the whole "furnishings" debate, myself. I can't make up my mind.

On the one hand -- the SF sets are rather "generic," which makes sense since you want something very flexible that can be used in many types of games. Furnishings WOULD help to flesh out something more specific, and I did hear some complaints from some SF gamers that the DF sets just looked too bland. "What is it?" I heard people say. "A bunker? A ship? A mining colony? It's not anything!"

On the other hand -- aren't the fantasy sets pretty generic, too? I mean, without any furnishings the dungeon sets are pretty bland. I suppose that in the fantasy "tradition" there are things like labyrinths and dungeons that simply have no furnishings, more so than in SF where a big maze would be kinda pointless. But on the whole, is fantasy really all that different from SF in this respect?

AH -- but! There WERE fantasy accessories! But really, we're talking about two sets -- furniture, and crates. For a long time, that's what there was. Then the great treasure set came out.... The fantasy accessories didn't seem like hot sellers to me. At $30-35 a pop, they were less useful and intriguing than the building sets. Were they the difference between success and failure?

Well, maybe people were thinking of sets like Wicked Additions and the Traps and all the other fantasy sets that allow you to fill your dungeon without "accessories" per se. But SF did give us those great columns and ramps -- maybe not enough, but the line just started! And DF has always been slow, it's a small company. We got three sets in a year, and that's probably all we ever got in fantasy. So maybe the SF fans just weren't used to the DF pace.

I also see how DF could have thought it would make MUCH more sense to start small. They can't release 10 sets at once in an untested area, invest that much capital, when the company is so small! They can't give SF gamers everything at once. They had to start somewhere, and basic room and passage pieces were really the only option. On the one hand, more product might have made the whole line more appealing. On the other hand, a bigger investment in an untested area could have spelled disaster.

I think if it were easy to see the right move, no small business would ever fail. Clearly, it's not easy. I don't think there WAS a right answer, really. There was no way to know how things would go.

As for using other companies' accessories for SF -- look at the interest people have shown in these forums for using Grendel fantasy pieces. I have Grendel, Armorcast, Hirst Arts, Wizkids, Reaper, and all sorts of other accessories in my fantasy setups. I think many fantasy fans use products from wherever. In my experience, any fan of terrain, anyone likely to WANT DF in the first place, is going to love quality products from any company and probably would pick up anything if it looked cool enough. Are we really so fanatically loyal that we want to buy all our stuff from one company? If SF gamers are like that, I wish them luck. I haven't run into that line of thinking myself.

In the end, I can see why the SF stuff calls out for accessories, but I can't see how it differs from fantasy in that respect. The fantasy line took off and did well LONG before there were caverns, traps, treasure, and other accessories for it. And even with them, we STILL use other company products to spice it up. Is the SF line somehow so radically different it couldn't have followed the same pattern?

It's a real tough call for me. I mean, to compare fairly, we have to look at what DF was like in the first year, when the fantasy stuff first came out. Now, there's a ton of product out there, but there wasn't when Room and Passage first hit. Why did R&P do so well, while SF has appeared to struggle?

I don't know, I really don't know.

L
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#8199
What people are saying about Sci-Fi 9 Years ago  
I think the biggest difference is the fact that there is just sooooo much more Fantasy stuff out there to start with, it's easy to get it.

you mention Grendel, Armorcast, Hirst Arts, Wizkids, Reaper and they all make Fantasy, but what about Sci-fi?
Grendel has some stuff i even bought a bunch of their stuff, but everytime i try to get more it's sold out, and the shear amount of it compaired to the Fantasy is silly. Armocast is now gone, i bought as much as i could when it was around. Hirst Arts... don't know enough about them to say but didn't remember seeing much there as accessory last time i went and looked at them. Wizkids made two Supers sets i admit i bought them and have used the computer many times, as well as that desk, and soda machine, and bookcase... but that's like 4 things, and a book case is a book case, is a book case, you can get them all over... not to mention it is yeah a Book case, i would love like one with a monitor on it or TV consule etc... The lamp post, and stuff from the other one isn't as usefull. Reaper... doesn't have anything for Sci-fi that i've seen.

But then you get Anisty on the Sci-fi side.
so right now for Sci-fi we have pretty much Anitsty, Grendel and GW (there are some other thing but much is very wargame geared... like maybe the Technologics as well and the constrcut stuff they make) but much of that isn't for scenery aspects. you add in the tons of other compaineis that make scenery for Fantasy over Sci-fi and you have a much wider range to chose from, so in some cases it doesn't matter that DF doesn't make scenery.
For Scenery with the scifi sets we got pretty much two options, Grendel or Anisty for resin... I want more oprions... Why i got into paper... there are some more options. I'm not even saying DF has to or should make a line like the tables and chairs... i just wish i could find one someplace in resin, i want chairs, and a nice none wood table!
Ghenghis Ska
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More Sci Fi Please, request a DEAD END for Sci Fi Passages
Classes of the Old Republic
Some RPG and mini stats including the Exodus and AAT (along with good source of a Mini scale version of the AAT).
 
#8200
What people are saying about Sci-Fi 9 Years ago  
Oh, I think this talk about neglect and Jeff not doing the Sci-Fi sets the "correct" way is rubbish.

First off, people who want to rip on Dwarven Forge lines for not doing this or that are, IMHO, looking for an excuse, because as the man once said, the smaller the stakes, the more bitter the argument. Rabid Fox, I think it's great you try to convince people to pick up SCI-FI, and hopefully you have convinced a few people. But someone who tells you "why should I pick up DF stuff when I can get stuff from X that has accesories!" is, in my mind, making the kind of argument that says that because you buy your curtains at Target you can't buy your lamps at Sears. The point is, people either like the sets or they don't, will buy what they want, and stuff like that is just an excuse. I hope I've made some sense on that point.

Second, unless we expect DF to become JUST sci-fi sets, there is no way for DF to put out a myriad of accessories and support the initial Sci-Fi line with a bunch of stuff. Several reason for this are...
A: It was stated no Sci-Fi this time because of not enough room in the order he made, so he would have had to sacrifice a fantasy set, which anyone can see needs some attention since they are very much depleted.
B: Stefan is a one person design team. He CAN'T design, at least to his standards, a bunch of sci-fi sets, and the DoE, and the Cavern set he has stated is being worked on. He is but one person.
C: Capital.... With no public investors DF has to make money to spend money, and then spend that to make more, and so on and so forth. DF, being the small company it is, can not afford to put out a myriad of sets all at once. Thus the DoE model of preorders.

So, do I want more stuff!! Sure!! But I am not going to accuse DF or Jeff of being neglectful or possibly not being a true Sci-Fi gaming fan because DF is what it is, a very small niche market company that is not publicly traded, and thus does not have investors, and of course, just the one designer.

Keep up the good work Jeff and Stefan!

Robert
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Robert
 
#8201
What people are saying about Sci-Fi 9 Years ago  


C: Capital.... With no public investors Jeff has to make money to spend money, and then spend that to make more, and so on and so forth. DF, being the small company it is, can not afford to put out a myriad of sets all at once. Thus the DoE model of preorders.
Robert


this is actually i hope how they move towards things, on the less basic sets, as has been implied they need the capital to do things... DOE with just something like 950 presells (if the number is right with only 542 left) is over $90000, that should be enough capital to make DOE. if they run something like this with other sets i would be for it.
Ghenghis Ska
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More Sci Fi Please, request a DEAD END for Sci Fi Passages
Classes of the Old Republic
Some RPG and mini stats including the Exodus and AAT (along with good source of a Mini scale version of the AAT).
 
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