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TOPIC: Sci-Fi Terrain
#6400
Sci-Fi Terrain 9 Years, 3 Months ago  
If DF could actually raise their financial stength to take their cool ideas to the extent they should have been able to go, then the DF experience would be absolutely fabulous.

That is not to say that Stefan and Jeff are not trying because they are.
It is saying that their great ideas unfortunately need a good bit of capital to put into reality for us which they do not have.
You read Stefan's comment a month ago, yes?
His father has had to repeatedly bail out DF from financial woes.
It would be great if DF could raise itself beyond such problems, but I am not sure they can.


That's a pretty dire prediction, but I see your point. The sci-fi sale (hopefully) will help get new customers into the mix, but I think they need to advertise it more in order to really get that effect.

Now, if they were to price the sci-fi stuff and maybe the fantasy starter at $25 during Gen Con, I have a feeling they'd dramatically increase their customer base and get the ready cash they need for some of these new releases.

Maybe that strategy could even become permanent. Assuming it wouldn't mean operating at a loss, maybe the Fantasy and Sci-Fi starter are always $30 or so for new customers buying online (or, if they can swing it, for ALL customers.) Give them a little taste and get them hooked. That would translate to better sales of things like the cavern and wicked additions sets, because we all know that, to paraphrase Hunter S. Thompson, once you get started on a serious Dwarven Forge collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can.


I am not sure what DF must do YC.
I would have to see the books to give a really well-educated opinion.

Convention specials are a common tool by many game companies.
Even then, a good many companies do not do them until the last day of the con.
The only purpose even then is to reduce the amount of their own stock they are taking home with them.

Actually, when I worked for them, GW never did the last day con specials since they had their own truck to carry stock around in.

Anything DF can do to increase the number of DF users without cutting their own throat would be great YC.
I am just concerned how this dumping of product in this sale will affect DF down the road.
I just hope the patient has not been bled too much to get rid of the disease.
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#6401
Sci-Fi Terrain 9 Years, 3 Months ago  
Anything DF can do to increase the number of DF users without cutting their own throat would be great YC.
I am just concerned how this dumping of product in this sale will affect DF down the road.
I just hope the patient has not been bled too much to get rid of the disease.


I am surprised by this comment, I don't think DF cut it's throat at all, with my own limited expereince in retail, i don't see how they could, i think the sale didn't hurt their bottom line at all. I don't think DF lost any money, they may not have made as mush as they normally could selling from the Website, but i don't see how they could have lost any money by "dumping product", I just see it as them cutting out the middle men.

From experince (and it is limited) i know most things you buy from retailers, if they have an MSRP of $100 (we'll say 100 for easy math), have no where near a cost to produce of $100, and the retailers don't buy them for that much, becuase if they do (and by they anyone in the process can't buy it for the cost they sell it at) then they can't make any money, they only cover costs, and there is no profit in it, which means they go out of business, becuase there is no money to do anything else, like eat, or even prodcue new product, with which to break even.

Prodcut X sells for $100 at yout FLGS, so if they buy it from a Distrbutor, or even from Producer Y it can't cost $100 or the store can't make any money and stay in business. So, Prodcut X if sold for $100 is bought by the FLGS or Distrubutor for $50. So We have to things that could happen, the distrub then sells it to FLGS for $75 making some money and the FLGS sells it for $100 making some money each stop in the chain makes about $25 for a $100 item.

Now if by the same logic if Producer Y sells X for $50 and it costs $50 they will go out of business for the same reasons above, no profit. So a $100 product most likely "Costs" $25 to produce and is sold for $50 to whomever, direct to sellers like your FLGS or Distrubutors like Alliance, so each step can make some money off it.

Some stores prefer to deal with the Producers if able so they can make an extra % on the cost (they still sell it for the same price, but they don't buy it for the same price if they can cut out the middle man of the Distrubutor), and most likely the same reason why Producer would rather see sales through a website of their own, if they sell something that would normally go to a retailer, for the same price the retailer would sell it at the producer gets the normal profit, plus a % more. Becuase it is going for more than they would get by selling to a retailer/distrubutor, extra money for them, but no loss of profits.
No matter who boguht it a straight customer, retailer, or distrubutor they still got the $50 they sell it for, but now they got a bit extra.

By the above reasoning they have to make a profit off of each one they sell to the Middle man, or they will go out of business themselves the $100 being sold for $50 can't cost $50 to make, if there is the same percentage, it most likely costs them $25 to make.

Now i admit the % on mark up at each step is probably wrong, but there has to be some sort of markup or there is no income/profit everyone breaks even, and that is no way to stay in business.

With that reasoning, the Sale DF just had, most likely casued them to "lose" no money, they most likely just sold the stuff at the cost they sell it to the Distrubutors and Retailers, we just got a chance to buy it, at the cost for once, and they cut the middle men out of the picture and passed the savings on to us the consumers. They still make what ever they were going to make, but we now don't have to keep the FLGS and Distrubutor in business as well now we are just keeping DF in business. Sure there was the missed chance for increase profit margin, by selling at the MSRP with out the middle man (normally a chance for the producer to make extra money and not piss off the Distrubutr, and FLGS) but the Bulk Sales may have made it worth while to piss off the middle man, or to loss that extra %.

They generated a bit of income quickly, with out losing money, most likely. The Aplha i think was at 800 unites when i bought mine, it's now out. so we'll say 500 units at a bad profit margin of just $5, thats $2500. Not a great deal of money to some people, but maybe they need fast capital for something. And if this same type of thing happened on multiple items with the same margin, or some with a greater margin, the Net cash flow could have been something they needed. Which doesn't hurt them and it allowed them to give consumers a cheaper product, with out really losing any money themselves, they would get the $25 for the Sets no matter what. (assuming it costs less than $25 to make) If they sold it at $50 themselves they still get the $25 an dan extra 25, but it would likely take longer, if they sold them at $25 to a FLGS, they still got the amount they need to make a profit $25, they just didn't get any extra, no gravy. if they sell them at $25, still make the same they would have made, just nothing more. It's probably not a viable option for the long run, but something they can do for a month or too to generate revnue for some other prodcut, or is a change in direction...

What does all of this mean in my view, it gave people the chance to get Product, most likely Didn't cut into DF's Bottom line, and generated a bit of money, maybe with which they are planning on doing something.

So i don't thing they cut their throat, i don't think it hurt them at all (the only thing i can see it hurting is the relationship to the Retailers and Distrubutors, but it may be something they don't care about any more, they may be pushing for a move towards total onsite sales, as could be evidenced by the new order page, it's revamp, an better inventory control as you order, which could make the product cheaper to us, instead of us having to deal with the mark up all over from FLGS and Distrubutor, we now pay the price the Retalier and Distrubutor used to pay, and they get cut out, good for us, not bad for DF, it doesn't change thier profits any, just bad for the FLGS.) The recent adds seen in magazines could point toward this. The number of LGS carrying DF is in my area is pretty low (2), largely cutting them out of the picture may not hurt DF (it could for overseas people, or even canadians untill they can fix the order system, but that is something DF can adress and fix). Moving to sales from the site, in the long run could help DF and us by making the products cheaper to us by cutting out the middle man, and allow DF to be more in control. They ahve gotten info out through the net, and in magazines, if they keep that up they may not need the FLGS as their main source of sales to new or even old people.

But this is all speculation.
Ghenghis Ska
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More Sci Fi Please, request a DEAD END for Sci Fi Passages
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#6402
Sci-Fi Terrain 9 Years, 3 Months ago  
Ghengis is right in principle, but a little bit out with his figures (but not far).

I owned a games shop in the UK for 8 years, and sold DF stuff for the last 3. Using a retail price of $100, the games store would probably pay around $65 to buy it from a distributor. That distributor would have a similar (or slightly less) mark-up, buying product from the manufacturer for, say, $45.

What that means is that the manufacturer selling product directly to the public for 50% of retail price will be getting a higher price for his product than he would by selling to distributors.

Sounds to me like DF is doing pretty well with these tactics, and it's not too surprising that distributors have low inventory if DF can sell their products direct for a bigger profit margin, even in a half-price sale!!
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#6403
Sci-Fi Terrain 9 Years, 3 Months ago  
Hey GS, can we flow out the comments a little better in the future please?
Each of your messages are almost instant headache makers.

Now, why did I say the throat comment?
1) Because if a company does not make a certain amount of profit on every item, they are losing.
Remember that yes, DF's actual cost for the kit is much less than the $SRP, but how many people here made sure their order shipped free?
I did, plus my stuff took two boxes and that cut into their profit margin by an estimated $40-50 dollars.
(UPS.Com wants me to measure the parcels and I do not feel like it right now, sorry - my estimated sizes of the parcels came out at $43.61 - I know the weights (18 & 37 lbs respectively) because they are printed on the box labels)
Then, what about the costs to DF to have that warehouse in Knoxville, TN, package everyone's orders?
Did y'all realize they used a fulfillment center to handle the shipping of product?
As you can see here GS the margin is getting lower and lower as we go.
There is a very good chance GS that DF actually lost money on every order and especially on those orders like mine that made sure they ordered enough to get free S&H.

2) Every time a game company bypasses both the distributors and the stores it builds enemies.
I have attended industry meetings in the past that became screaming shoutfests when retailers confronted a company which had dumped product on the market.
DF is not GW and cannot make some of the same moves with the impunity that GW has.
Some reasonable retailers will stop carrying DF products if the gamers in their area inform them that they have bought directly from DF at this price.
These retailers will look at the situation, not as DF seeding the ground for future purchases which could be through the store maybe, but as DF butting into their sales with designs on taking even more future sales away from them.
The main retailer here could not care since he does not carry DF product, but I know some of you live in areas where the retailer is jealous of any outside interference with their customers.
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#6404
Sci-Fi Terrain 9 Years, 3 Months ago  
You Know the 50% off May Bring in More Business for DF... I Hope so... From What Jeff Said When Sci-Fi first Broke out, it Sold VERY well... So I Would Like to Hear DF's Side to This Story, after all regardless of what we all "Think" we Know about the Matter, Unless DF has Actually Spilled the Beans we are ALL just Guessing, Educated perhaps , but Guessing just the Same...
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#6405
Sci-Fi Terrain 9 Years, 3 Months ago  
You Know the 50% off May Bring in More Business for DF... I Hope so... From What Jeff Said When Sci-Fi first Broke out, it Sold VERY well... So I Would Like to Hear DF's Side to This Story, after all regardless of what we all "Think" we Know about the Matter, Unless DF has Actually Spilled the Beans we are ALL just Guessing, Educated perhaps , but Guessing just the Same...

I would love to hear DF's side MLV, but I do not expect to.
They have always played their cards very close to the vest.
Stefan let a serious cat out of the bag six weeks or so ago with his financial talk in his message.
I had wondered before and was not surprised by what he wrote.
What I have written MLV in this thread would be classified as educated guesstimates and historical fact.

MLV, the Stock Market Crash of October 1929 only contributed to the Great Depression.
Perception was 70% of the cause of the Great Depression occurring MLV.
The perception of banking going bad is what really destroyed the world banking system present in 1930.
(I always laugh at folks who think globalization is a new idea)
Very few of the banks were actually bad before gossip by competitors lead to runs on the target bank and thereby their demise.
The Great Depression itself only really appeared in mid-1931 and perceptions were the "straw" that broke the camel's back.

In business, as in almost every other part of life, perception is actually more solid and causal than reality.
If people truly believe a company is dying, the reality will soon follow.
The idea in this thread is to prevent adverse perceptions of DF through heads-up awareness so that we can prevent negative rumors about DF in our own physical locales.
At least that is my perception of where we are in this thread.
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#6406
Sci-Fi Terrain 9 Years, 3 Months ago  
I do however take issue with people who think that thier way is the only way, and say i do certain things with out knowing anything about me. I just wish people would not knock other peoples choices and ways to do things. If you have an agenda to set forth with how you think it should be used, highlight it, and post pics and etc with that in mind, but don't tell others that they way they are using it is in any way wrong, becuase it is differnet than what you want it for, or what works for them is not right becuase it doesn't work for you.
I'm with you on this one, Ghengis Ska. I also like the way Yukon Cornelius has handled himself in this forum. However, I cannot say the same for Rabid Fox. As a casual visitor here, I've read this entire thread and can't help but notice the condescending and boastful attitude he projects.
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#6407
Sci-Fi Terrain 9 Years, 3 Months ago  
I do however take issue with people who think that thier way is the only way, and say i do certain things with out knowing anything about me. I just wish people would not knock other peoples choices and ways to do things. If you have an agenda to set forth with how you think it should be used, highlight it, and post pics and etc with that in mind, but don't tell others that they way they are using it is in any way wrong, becuase it is differnet than what you want it for, or what works for them is not right becuase it doesn't work for you.
I'm with you on this one, Ghengis Ska. I also like the way Yukon Cornelius has handled himself in this forum. However, I cannot say the same for Rabid Fox. As a casual visitor here, I've read this entire thread and can't help but notice the condescending and boastful attitude he projects.


So much for not trying to cause a flame war, eh Jeditemple?

So you play the low road where knowledge, experience and credentia are meaningless because they disagree with your personal view which may have blinders on it, eh Jeditemple?
If the masses do not like the situation, they can just throw around names and negative adjectives perfectly innocently, eh Jeditemple?
If you do not like honesty, always twist it around to where somehow it is dishonesty, eh Jeditemple?
I believe someone said, "Calling evil, good and calling good, evil" was wrong.
Do y'all really want to live lies?
Is that not overcomplicating life even at the lowest moral level?

Folks, if you do not want me to treat you this way, then do not treat me this way.
Then again, I am just some idiot, who does not know at all what I am talking about despite extensive pertinent experience, so says the folks who think they know everything, but have almost none of the necessary experience to back their faulty thesis.
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#6408
Sci-Fi Terrain 9 Years, 3 Months ago  
So you play the low road where knowledge, experience and credentia are meaningless because they disagree with your personal view which may have blinders on it, eh Jeditemple?

If the masses do not like the situation, they can just throw around names and negative adjectives perfectly innocently, eh Jeditemple?
If you do not like honesty, always twist it around to where somehow it is dishonesty, eh Jeditemple?
I believe someone said, "Calling evil, good and calling good, evil" was wrong.
Do y'all really want to live lies?
Is that not overcomplicating life even at the lowest moral level?

Folks, if you do not want me to treat you this way, then do not treat me this way.
Then again, I am just some idiot, who does not know at all what I am talking about despite extensive pertinent experience, so says the folks who think they know everything, but have almost none of the necessary experience to back their faulty thesis.


Rabid, I think something needs to be said here that's been building for a long time:

We, the members of this board, are not stupid, nor do we appreciate being treated as such. Whatever your life-experiences are, they do not make your opinions any more or less valuable than those of anyone else in this community. Nor do they give you the right to belittle other people just because they disagree with you.

You are not Prometheus, and you are not bringing fire to the ignorant masses. You are not Moses walking down from the mountaintop. You are not the voice of reason, and you are not the arbiter of what should and should not be discussed on these boards. What you are is one voice among many, and one that deserves to be heard so long as that voice is respectful of all the other voices around it.

In the past few months, you have shown little but contempt for people on this forum who are guilty of nothing more than participating in the discussion. If those people and those discussions offend you so deeply, then please, for the sake of everyone involved, including yourself, find another forum to participate in.
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#6409
Sci-Fi Terrain 9 Years, 3 Months ago  
Well said, Yukon!

I no longer read anything posted by RabidFox. Life's too short. I just scroll down past his box of self-righteous, offensive drivel until I find reasonable and valid comments posted by other users.

I really don't want to sound like the playground bully picking on the weedy kid who smells of piss, but I have to say 'Go away RabidFox, no-one likes you here!'
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#6410
Sci-Fi Terrain 9 Years, 3 Months ago  
Wow.

This is why I don't like to frequent boards. I've always found it to be pretty amusing that while western society is rooted in the ideal of individuality some basic personality archtypes dominate.

This is never more true than those same personalities, or personality disorders if you will, that are ubiqitous on online boards.

Contentious pedantic meandering serves no purpose other than some self serving need for Joe Nobody to play out his real time Fantasy RPG that he really is a somebody, that the world really has missed out on his incredible genius and talents, and that he is SPECIAL.

What would possibly prompt a person to waste time working line by line through a comment with such a contentious style. Keep in mind that the only thing germane here is GAMING. At the root of gaming, any gaming, aside from the intellectual challenge, the problem solving, the social component, is a game. On some level the game is supposed to be FUN, and enjoyable.

The sad thing is that while I love gaming, I really do dislike most people attracted to gaming. Wouldn't gaming be great if more stable personality types played? Finding relaxed cool people that like to have a good time, and aren't contentious or uptight, who enjoy playing games is actually pretty hard. I've tried to get my friends to try games, and while some have given it a go it just isn't their thing. However, there are very very few gamers that I spend time with outside of gaming, and for a reason.

The social interaction in a game is so crucial to gaming. If I wanted to play by myself I would get into electronic gaming. However, I truly enjoy sitting down to play a game with other people. It isn't about winning, it doesn't have to be about being "a better player", but rather it should be about a good time had by all.

I've held an NASD liscense and worked at two of the largest financial concerns in the United States. I've seen all aspects of the inside of the financial markets from the back office, shareholder services, the representative distribution channel, trade corrections, market pricing, prospectus language, and compliance. I've seen the nightmare when a fund gets broken "as-of" and I've dealt with "real money" in such quanties that I couldn't even find a context for it in real life.

I have returned to school to further my studies in economics. I'd like to think that I know a thing or two about money and business. One thing I do know is that fanboy types who like to pipe in from the sideline regarding the business plan, or the viability of product are just what they are: noise from the gallery.

Please keep these threads germane to Dwarven Forge terrain and gaming. If you really believe that you have special expertise regarding Gaming and Business, well then host a consortium and see who shows up.

In the "mean"time please don't try to attain 8th level for your character in your real life personality role playing game. If you can't find recognition from your peers in your chosen profession, that is not license to pollute the world with your posts devoid of any real context to the board at hand.

Dwarven Forge makes great stuff. Encourage people to buy it. Please stop wasting everyone's time by being a big black cloud of negativity commenting on Dwarven Forge's business plan, economic scale, elasticity of price, customer base or whatever rant you believe the community would be served by.

Great assets typically never have the chance to leave an organization, because they are recognized as mission critical. However, many individuals do move on to other industries and occupations that will always be legends in their own mind.

Healthy legitimate self-esteem is so very scarce in our society. Unfortunately we all have to suffer the consequences as those who truly are not at peace with who they are, or what they have become constuct a temple of falsehood to support the dogma that they are special, that they are brilliant, that they are amazing. Brilliance shines, friends, brightly. If you've ever had a conversation with someone attempting to explain how bright you REALLY are, well be prepared that you may not quite be. That being said, you are probably a good person anyway. Don't ever let a component of your personality become your personality. If anyone else wants instructions on how to live your life please email me, I'd be happy to accomodate, however, my advice may simply be HAVE MORE FUN! BE LESS SUCKY!

That soapbox should be hidden in the closet.

So who has some pics of some great layouts? I just received my 4 Starters, 4 Passages, and 2 Alphas. I'm definitely thinking I should have picked up more Alphas. I just placed an order for 4 more and another each of the Starter and Passages. I'm looking for ideas and decent people (read non-wankers) to play with.

Oops, not to create some epic thread about the term "layout" the lexicography of the term, or whether I meant it colloquially.

Be a gamer, ie have fun. Or be an goblin, a miserable negative wretch of a thing that can't even be taken seriously because it is so adorable in how perfectly it captures the essence of what not to be. It does give the hero somethin' to kill though...
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#6411
Sci-Fi Terrain 9 Years, 3 Months ago  

Then again, I am just some idiot, who does not know at all what I am talking about despite extensive pertinent experience, so says the folks who think they know everything, but have almost none of the necessary experience to back their faulty thesis.


Well, that first part is right...
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