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Inquiring Mind wants to know
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TOPIC: Inquiring Mind wants to know
#14622
Inquiring Mind wants to know 8 Years, 4 Months ago  
Regarding the Inventorying of DF products and the spreadsheet I created, the final thing I wanted to clean up a bit was the categories I used when assigning pieces to Genres and Sub-Genre.

I think these are all the items I am concerned about (and if not, at least having these answered would answer any other questions I should have regarding this subject):

Items for which Genre and/or Sub-Genre should be re-considered:

Current Proposed
Item Sub-Genre Sub-Genre

Alcoves Advanced Room
Wide Dead Ends Advanced Room
All Cavern entries with Sub-Genre of Standard. Proposed sub-genre Rooms.
Pedestals Dressings Dressings or somewhere else?
Red Pillars Dressings Dressings, Room, or Wicked
Torches (Lit & Unlit) I purposefully used Dressings instead of Room as you can place the torches on the floor as props. However, should these go to Room with the Wall & Bracket?
Boat made from Doors and Benches Currently Cavern/Water. Move to Vessles/Water ?
6" Long Passageway (Fantays) Advanced Passage

Should the Half Corners and Walls be left under Advanced or moved to Room?
If we move those to room, should we split up the Extenders too? Should the Extender half floor & extender hall wall pieces move to Room?
Should the Extender Half Short Passage move to Passages?

Should coins & magic items stay in Dressings or move to Treasure?

In-case DF comes out with more "complete rooms," should the Ogre's Room move from Room to Single-Rooms or some such category?


While some of the pieces orginally came with the Advanced set, it seems as if some of them should be moved to the Passages Set (in the case of the 6" Long Passageway) or the Rooms set.
I'm looking for predictability - where would You look for the item in the spreadsheet?

Thanks for any input I receive.
weaverjk
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62 sets and counting. In addition, a boatload of individual pieces or sets of pieces.
 
#14623
Inquiring Mind wants to know 8 Years, 4 Months ago  
First off, I would like to thank you for all of the work you are doing with this.
I am also looking forward to what JK does with it in Access on top of the foundation you have created.
That could be very cool visually.

Is the Sub-Genre column just splitting stuff up a little too much?
There is so much room for possible argument with the Sub-Genre categorization, I just do not wish you to be subject to what happened to me over on the Arena thread after my honest comments.
If you really think it is needed, go for it.
Otherwise, I vote for lumping in this case and the omitting of the Sub-Genre column.
That is what I have done with my copy of your sheets.

I just re-read your first posting here and have another question.
Did you keep the spreadsheet to only the four category sheets I have on your earlier sheets: Sets, Pieces, Accessories and Figures?
I hope so; I do not see a need to break it down any further since that is how we buy them.

I know you have put a lot of work into this for all of us, but I hope you have not taken yourself past the mark.
My wife has always reminded me to pay attention to KISS when working on a project that could get overly complicated.
I save loads of frustration and time when I keep this in mind, and my product comes out better.
Always remember Patton's thought: “A good solution applied with vigor now is better than a perfect solution applied ten minutes later.”
You have made that vigorous good solution here; do not overcomplicate it.

I hope I have not offended you saying so.
It just seems that this project is taking on a life of its own and is getting really complicated.
Maybe I'm wrong.
RabidFox*
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SF: Starter(3), Passage(2), Alpha(7), Beta(2) someday soon;
Cavern: Cavern, Cavernous Passages, many individual pieces, Cavernous River & Wall and Cavernous Lake someday soon;
Fantasy: Room & Passages, Room, Octagonal Room, Wicked Additions I&II, Adv. Builder, Diagonal Walls Set, Dungeon Accessories, Medieval Furniture, many individual pieces.
 
#14624
Inquiring Mind wants to know 8 Years, 4 Months ago  
Thanks for the feedback, RabidFox. I appreciate your comments and suggestions.

I figured persons who wanted to customize the spreadsheet (deleting to them what is unecessary columns) would do so. That is expected. No problems there.

As for over-doing it and over-categorizing things. That's a matter of personal taste. I happen to be very anal and, having Attention Deficite Hyperactivity Disorder, have come to learn that I need to organize myself (which I still don't do) or things just don't get done or done correctly. I like to provide as much detail as possible but still not have the spreadsheet rely on it. I need it for me. Everyone can delete what they don't want. :)

Thanks for the thanks.

I think I pretty much have the categories and sub-categories worked out. I'm pretty happy with what I've done. Sadly, while at work tonight I fubared and accidently messed up significant portions of the "next" spreadsheet - twice. So, I'm on my third redition of the next (and hopefully last ) spreadsheet. What concerns me most is having people say, "this guy keeps tweeking it. It's not worth it. I'm not going to use it."

My 1.03 post (which went up just after the v1.00 post and probably before more than 2-3 people downloaded it) was fine and good and should make most people happy.
This next rendition is for for persons like me who need more detail and organization. I feel more detail is good and people can delete what they don't wish to use.

Yeah, I'd like to see what JK can do. I wasn't sure how to set it up for best setup with Access and wasn't sure about the Reports. I figured it'd be better to let someone who already has a good working relationship with Access and a good idea of what he/she wants to do work on the Access database. I'd really like to see what other people have mentioned, a program/database that takes your inventory and figures out the best possible combination of boxes/pieces for you to use to build a setup given that you need X number of Y Pieces for the setup. I'd really like to tie these things (spreadsheet & database) in with the Tilesystem software so that imports/exports of the lists can be done. Export Max # of pieces available from the S/DB to TS. Once a layout is built in TS, export the Requirements of the layout from TS and Import that list into the program/database so it can determine which boxes to pull of the shellf. Again, this is probably overkill. Currently, I just eyeball the boxes and grab what I think I'll need. ;) But...it's nice to have the capability to do more and if people don't want to use it, they don't have to.



Thanks again for the feedback.
weaverjk
1st & 2nd Edition D&D DM & Player
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62 sets and counting. In addition, a boatload of individual pieces or sets of pieces.
 
#14625
Inquiring Mind wants to know 8 Years, 4 Months ago  
Thank you for the explanation from your view.
It made the situation much more comprehensible for me.
RabidFox*
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SF: Starter(3), Passage(2), Alpha(7), Beta(2) someday soon;
Cavern: Cavern, Cavernous Passages, many individual pieces, Cavernous River & Wall and Cavernous Lake someday soon;
Fantasy: Room & Passages, Room, Octagonal Room, Wicked Additions I&II, Adv. Builder, Diagonal Walls Set, Dungeon Accessories, Medieval Furniture, many individual pieces.
 
#14626
Inquiring Mind wants to know 8 Years, 4 Months ago  
Yeah, I'd like to see what JK can do. I wasn't sure how to set it up for best setup with Access and wasn't sure about the Reports. I figured it'd be better to let someone who already has a good working relationship with Access and a good idea of what he/she wants to do work on the Access database. I'd really like to see what other people have mentioned, a program/database that takes your inventory and figures out the best possible combination of boxes/pieces for you to use to build a setup given that you need X number of Y Pieces for the setup. I'd really like to tie these things (spreadsheet & database) in with the Tilesystem software so that imports/exports of the lists can be done. Export Max # of pieces available from the S/DB to TS. Once a layout is built in TS, export the Requirements of the layout from TS and Import that list into the program/database so it can determine which boxes to pull of the shellf. Again, this is probably overkill. Currently, I just eyeball the boxes and grab what I think I'll need. ;) But...it's nice to have the capability to do more and if people don't want to use it, they don't have to.
weaverjk -

I hadn't thought of that idea. Man, I'd LOVE to be able to tie 'em together, but unless TS can export/import a dBase table, or a delimited text file, I'm not sure how it would work.
I gotta talk to CRI & LoneStarr on this one. I can start construction, but if we're going to tie 'em all together, we'd better co-operate on it REAL TIGHT!
Man, I hope we can do this!! THAT will be Super-COOL!

See ya!

Jim
jkratzer
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#14627
Inquiring Mind wants to know 8 Years, 4 Months ago  
Messaged you.
RabidFox*
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SF: Starter(3), Passage(2), Alpha(7), Beta(2) someday soon;
Cavern: Cavern, Cavernous Passages, many individual pieces, Cavernous River & Wall and Cavernous Lake someday soon;
Fantasy: Room & Passages, Room, Octagonal Room, Wicked Additions I&II, Adv. Builder, Diagonal Walls Set, Dungeon Accessories, Medieval Furniture, many individual pieces.
 
#14628
Inquiring Mind wants to know 8 Years, 4 Months ago  
JK - yeah; I agree. I'd really like to tie it all in. Even though I found a "flaw" with the sorting of the spreadsheet, I'll update it with what I think the categories and whatnot should be so that the data is all set and ready to go when you are. I will probably get back to the database on Monday or Tuesday night. It was so disappointing to see that I overlooked the problem (sorting) that I haven't touched the spreadsheet today. Well, okay, that's only part of it. The other reason is I am *really* busy at work! Just taking a breather to catch up on things outside the box.
weaverjk
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62 sets and counting. In addition, a boatload of individual pieces or sets of pieces.
 
#14629
Inquiring Mind wants to know 8 Years, 4 Months ago  
weaverjk -

I did the import and table cleanup on your spreadsheet last night (not an error of yours, just that Access doesn't wnat anything to do with the math parts in the sheets), and concocted model numbers for those peices that don't have one. When I get to tear down TS (IF CRI, LS, and pfworks approve!), I'll modify any model numbers that need it.
If the two apps can be linked, I think I will be able to set up the pull list feature for maps. Y'know, where you suggested that the map list export to the database and generate a 'call sheet' of what boxes to drag off the shelf for setup. I'll have to generate a cross-link of what pieces are in each boxed set, and allow for indie pieces where an owner claims to have them as well. All of this sounds doable, it's jsut going to be a slight bit bigger job than I thought. Not a problem, just a project.

See ya!

Jim
jkratzer
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#14630
Inquiring Mind wants to know 8 Years, 4 Months ago  
The spreadsheet contains a hidden sheet with the breakdown of what sets contain what pieces.
Whlie the sets are listed as Column headers instead of Row headers (like I think of a database), you may be able to either import it or at least use the data (I've already done the leg work).

I don't know if you like any of the made up model numbers I already have in the spreadsheet (I am verbose), but if so, there's some there to use.

Sounds like a great start. Thank you for working on this.
weaverjk
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62 sets and counting. In addition, a boatload of individual pieces or sets of pieces.
 
#14631
Inquiring Mind wants to know 8 Years, 4 Months ago  
Euwww, I think I screwed up, then. I ran into a bunch of un-identifiable fields in each table when importing them into Access, and would up dumping them - even though they were empty.
I fear I will have to go back and un-hide columns, and re-import.
Are the hiddens in each table/sheet, or just in one or two?

Jim
jkratzer
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Jim Kratzer, a/k/a The Mad Yank
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insane GM
 
#14632
Inquiring Mind wants to know 8 Years, 4 Months ago  
Sorry, JKratzer; been gone for a few days.
Okay...there are a few issues you might be running into. 1) I used a virtual reference on sheets like "Sets Contain" and "Counts" to point back to the names of the sets and individual pieces as listed on the "Piece Sets" and "Pieces - Individual" sheets (thinking back to v1.03). So if you tried to import the "Sets Contain" sheet by itself, the references might not end up displaying. (Sigh; I tried to make the spreadsheet easy and end up with more troubles later on ;))
If you go to Format | Sheet | Unhide, you'll see a list of all the hidden sheets. Just unhide them one at a time.

I'll see what I can do to make it all straight text instead of references if you wish. That should be easy enough.
weaverjk
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62 sets and counting. In addition, a boatload of individual pieces or sets of pieces.
 
#14633
Inquiring Mind wants to know 8 Years, 4 Months ago  
weaverjk (because either I don't know or haven't gotten permission to use your name here) -

Don't worry about reformatting or rebuilding the spreadsheet; you've designed it to be a functional stand-alone. I can do the imports as necessary to get the data in, I just needed the structure defined - which you've just done, very well.
PLEASE don't think I'm criticizing ANYTHING you've done here; if I've given that impression, I SINCERELY apologize!
Man, you beat your brains out on this project, and I DAMN WELL DARE anyone to give you a hard time about it! There's frequently too much backbiting on a LOT of forums, mostly by second-guessers who know how to whine, but never do anything themselves. If you think I'm kidding, go check the alt.games.warhammer (I think it's called) newsgroup. That bunch will eat their own children - alive!
Please don't break you neck on any changes to coddle me; I've got most of the data already in the database, and with this new information, I can pull in the rest successfully. This part is MY job; you've don more than your share of the load.

I'll post more info as I have each section operational; as you know, this is going to be a multiphase structure. A big part of it is going to be getting forms designed and built, then posting screenshots of them so YOU can check them out. And also anyone else who wants to cooperate on this project. The BIGGEST part, of course, will be tying in with TileSystem. I have to get the code from CRI on that part (he sent me and off-forum e-mail that I have to answer).

Hang in there, weaverjk; we'll get this monster whipped!

And, of course, you can call me

Jim
jkratzer
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Jim Kratzer, a/k/a The Mad Yank
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insane GM
 
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