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Thod's Christmas project - Dwarven Mine
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TOPIC: Thod's Christmas project - Dwarven Mine
#27492
Thod's Christmas project - Dwarven Mine 6 Years, 4 Months ago  
Woah! Awesome results. +1 on crioux's suggestion.

Wait.. the cart is partially made out of legos? :O
Kaladhan
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#27493
Thod's Christmas project - Dwarven Mine 6 Years, 4 Months ago  
Crioux

I hate to admit it - but this is a damn good suggestion. I was already contemplating some (site?)-passages without any rails. Seperating the floors from the rails would overcome the issue. And that way I can have a T-intersection which can be used either for a bend or as straight rail - and it would be forward looking to see if I can make a junction for the rails.

There is only one big issue - I doubt I get the rails off the current design ... Starting from scratch again ... Yep - I should do - but I'm not pleased that I hadn't thought about before I started.

The question then is - would it then allow to add some OO-electrical tracks as well after we already see all the LED work here? The issue I guess is the sharp bent. To stay on 4*4 inch floor plates which fit to each other I have an inner radius of just over 3 cm (need to measure it exactly). Not sure this can be done with some existing or bendable rails.

Jim

See musings above. Guess you will read this sooner or later. I know you have now Sandy's railway up over the holiday period. What do you think is the sharpest bends you can make with some electrical tracks ? Maybe next year then you can leave the DF up and Sandy just build up her Railway in your mine ;) Special greetings to both of you - and tell her I'm joking ...

Kaladhan

Yes - this is Lego. I wanted to build some working ore cart. The idea is when I cast the pieces to imbed the Lego floor plate into the design. This should lower the cart by another 1 - 1 1/2 mm and should make the siteview better.

I once worked a whole evening on hinges for a prison cell - yep - did this well before YanSolo and Vagabonvoid - but I was never happy with the moving part. So Lego is my cheap (?) way out. I still need to check prizes on BrickLink (these I sneaked off from my son). But even if I pay a 'lot' for the wheels - it's worthwhile the saved time. And you can push the cart along the tracks !!

Thod
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#27494
Thod's Christmas project - Dwarven Mine 6 Years, 4 Months ago  
Looks good so far.

-Shadox
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We Search our whole life never finding what we were searching for...
Over 143 Sets (Expanding), 300+ Loose Pieces (Expanding), 11,000 plastic figures (Expanding), 1,000 metal figures (350 actually painted)
 
#27495
Thod's Christmas project - Dwarven Mine 6 Years, 4 Months ago  
Thod -

You might do better with N-scale - think in terms of HO/OO narrow-gauge trackage. Using narrow-gauge, possibly even as small as Z-gauge (Marklin will LOVE you if you do!) you could get some REALLY tight curves in - and N- or Z-gauge coal cars will definitely fit, especially if you use Euro-style, two-axle type cars! Since most mine ore cars, both US and European types, are two axle, dwarves will feel right at home with them. A paint job, proper dents and bashes, and you're ready to go!
Running 12 VDC along the rails will let you distribute power anywhere in the mines, and alleviate the need for batteries in every torch, firepit, forge, and lava flow; just lay track into that segment and make sure it crosses the contacts for the LED in that section.
Thod, I see REAL possibilities in this! Stefan, are you reading along with us? Jeff? yansolo?
For that matter, Tony Griffon, what's the most efficient way to move equipment in a cargo bay, other than with power walkers? GANTRY CRANES! On STEEL RAILS!
Oh MAN, I hear a confluence of my two FAVORITE HOBBIES - THREE, if you include plastic modeling!
Thod, Harneloot, Kaladhan, crioux, Shadox:

THANK YOU ALL for a WONDERFUL Christmas Gift!! I MEAN That! MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU ALL!

Jim
jkratzer
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#27496
Thod's Christmas project - Dwarven Mine 6 Years, 4 Months ago  
Jim

I did contemplate N-Scale originally - but couldn't get my hands on some (in flesh) to see how well the size works. Yes - I could buy some via E-Bay but a photo doesn't really give you the right feel for size. I might take the plunge to just buy some used tracks on e-Bay to see if they fit. If not I can resell them or just discard them.

The issue with size is - a standard modern track isn't really the width of a mining track. So while OO is closer to 28mm scale we actually don't want the size of a modern train running in a mining tunnel. We have here close by a miniature track. Have a look at www.rhdr.org.uk/rhdr/home_flash.html

This is the Romney&Hithe steam train. While it is tiny for a real train it's coaches are big enough for humans to sit in and it would be sizewise a much more realistic mining track. Another time I say a really tiny rail was in a tunnel through a mountain next to a channel connecting Strassbourg to the Rhine. Yes - this was build a while ago when they still transported a lot of cargo via boat. So they made a whole tunnel through a mountain for a channel. And on the rim of the channel is enough space for a 'railway'. Well - a railway only high enough for Dwarves if my memory serves me right.

Just checked some real sizes - the rails in Romney Marsh are just 15 inches apart. Translated this would mean 1.25 cm if I calculate that 5cm in DF scale should be 10 feet aka 3m and if I didn't got the math wrong.

So maybe N-Scale is the right size? But I need to see it layed out in a cavern to see how it looks like. Are the beams under the rails to narrow and too close to look good?

Well - thanks to Crioux I will make some seperate rails anyway. This way I can change over at a later stage with not too much work / time wasted.

Thod

PS: Do you have some N or OO scale and can measure it. The current rails in the picture are 2.5 cm apart. What I'm interested in - what is the distance rail to rail and how many beams do they have on a 10 cm track.
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#27497
Thod's Christmas project - Dwarven Mine 6 Years, 4 Months ago  
Thod -

N-scale gauge is Nine - 9 - mm between railheads. Scale is 1/160th. On the other hand, Z-scale is 1/220th; I'm not sure what the gauge is, but it is roughly half that of N-scale, which would make it @4.5 mm.

The idea of NARROW gauge is that it makes it possible to run track in very tight quarters; most mine track IS narrow gauge. Standard gauge in Western Europe and in the US is 4' 8.685" (approximately, on the fraction of an inch!), and narrow gauge usually runs 3-feet, but has been as narrow as 16 inches - not for mainline operations, of course, but short line and logging line stuff, and for mining operations. So 9 mm narrow gauge for mine track would be fine, and we can get sectional track in that as tight as 9 3/4" radius, factory stock.

Most factory sectional track will have ties (sleepers, in Euro-speak) @ 5/16" on centers, @1/8" wide. Let me find some pieces and send them to you, after Christmas - I think I still have your address floating around here somewhere; if not, I'll e-mail you for it again. We CAN engineer this thing!

Meanwhile, Merry Christmas to all in Deal and elsewhere!
jkratzer
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#27498
Thod's Christmas project - Dwarven Mine 6 Years, 4 Months ago  
I like the tracks as they are. I think you might actually save a lot of work and aggravation molding them with the floor, rather than cutting them to the right length and lining them up and fixing them to the floors.

Do you mean to put the dead end track piece on an "open" floor tile?

You need a dead end mine passage, where the tracks end (waiting for enough room to add new track) and the facing wall is generously covered with whatever the mine produces. (Other walls might have scattered sparkles or gems, but the end wall is the actual vein the miners have been following.)

As for intersections, I'd stick to a "T" to allow side passages in either direction. I think an "X" intersection is unnecessary.

I'm ordinarily against the idea of "fixed" rooms, but a small to medium sized chamber with a ladder (and perhaps a wooden framework around a lift?) would give your adventurers more access points (and a way for monsters to sneak around behind them). There might also be a pile of ore or gems in the room, or just a pile of rubble (that the characters can search to find ore or gems), or perhaps a chest in which the miners store the products of the mine until they can put together an armed party to escort the chest back home.

You're off to a great start, and I really hope you stick with this until you have the full set as you envision it. AND that you'll keep sharing pictures with us!
jackattack
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#27499
Thod's Christmas project - Dwarven Mine 6 Years, 4 Months ago  
really creative. i like the combination of the legos and wood for the cart.
wicked cool
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#27500
Thod's Christmas project - Dwarven Mine 6 Years, 4 Months ago  
That's awesome!
You guys are ALL beating us to the punch on projects we want to do for DF! well done! I personally like the tracks fixed to the floor. if they were not I think they would slide around a lot, especially when moving the cart around...removable walls are a good idea, I'll remember it...

Happy Holidays everyone!

I'll be 41 at midnight:)
Stefan
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#27501
Thod's Christmas project - Dwarven Mine 6 Years, 4 Months ago  
There are two ways of doing this with separate track pieces - use HOe gauge track from Peco and narrow gauge mining equipment from Roco for running on the Peco track. The Peco track has the correct proportions between the ties and rails to look like narrow gauge, but has the same rail spacing as N scale, that is 9 mm. Correct narrow gauge proportions have longer ties in proportion to the the rail spacing than standard gauge, and this should be clearly visible. The other method is handlaying the track using stuff from the train shop - that way you can get any radius curves you want.

Then you have the alternatives of bedding the track into the soil, or going military style (WW1) by using actual rail sections laid out on the ground and bolted together. There was a French company, Decauville, that introduced this kind of track in 1875.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decauville

For anyone really seriously looking into a medieval mining operation using mine railways should try to find a copy of De re metallica, a book from 1556 about the state of the art of mining at that time. It includes an image of the oldest known mining railway. The book was translated by the former US president Herbert Hoover (that part I didn't know until I read the Wikipedia page about it though), so it should be possible to track it down, so to speak... :-)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_re_metallica
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#27502
Thod's Christmas project - Dwarven Mine 6 Years, 4 Months ago  
These look great the way they are. Yeah being able to put them down on any lay out would be nice but it seems to me that only a " wild and unfinished "area would have them unless they pass threw an area that was finished " like the dungeons " but you could always have an area that connected to a finished dungeon. This way you got one section to lay down with the tacks already on it. someone once told me that medieval mines really had no tracks and just carts or sacks to hual the ore? Is that right? Of coarse this IS fantasy and looks darn cool. If folks can figure out how to throw lightning from a staff then they can also figure that carts on tracks are better for mining.
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#27503
Thod's Christmas project - Dwarven Mine 6 Years, 4 Months ago  
The oldest known constructed railways used half logs spiked down to crossties, with the wheels shaped like the rolls for sewing thread, with flanges on both sides of the wheel.
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