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TileSystem Sreenshots & Example Layouts
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TOPIC: TileSystem Sreenshots & Example Layouts
#13412
TileSystem Sreenshots & Example Layouts 8 Years, 2 Months ago  
Cool. I'll make sure (after Kubla) that all the images have their origin in the lower left. I can easily do that in illustrator and re-export.

Be aware that some of the pieces are bigger than the grid, and are fractional inches in size. I'll play with some of the odd-size pieces after I re-origin them and see if it makes sense.

As for the EULA, what I really care about is integrity. I.e. I'd rather not have someone "fix" them and re-distribute w/o me knowing about them. They could make some of the same mistakes I made in the first batch and they wouldn't work. So, essentially, other than that it would be nice to credit us if maps are published somewhere, especially if they get any kind of distribution.

If someone wants to help me wordsmith the EULA to get this across, feel free. I basically threw the EULA together in 5 minutes after I noticed folks were downloading. 8-)

And, the tilemapper software looks nice. If I didn't have so much invested in dundjinni, I'd probably use it under Virtual PC.
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#13413
TileSystem Sreenshots & Example Layouts 8 Years, 2 Months ago  
Hey,

the photos look nice.

How do they look printed out in B/W? Is it obvious which pieces are which?

It would be cool if you could label the photo pieces somwhere, it would make it easier to tell the difference between a wall and a secret door, for example.
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#13414
TileSystem Sreenshots & Example Layouts 8 Years, 2 Months ago  
Welcome CRasterImage!

This is very good news to have you, the author of that incredibly useful piece of software, here and it's even better news that you allready confirmed the freeness of the software.

First to your question:
In fact there is a little perspective distortion, but it is currently only on the lower end of the images, where it is just cut away without being really noticable. The solution to reducing that problem obviously is to move the camera as far away from the tiles as possible and then zoom in with the lens. I might even try to use the full length of the stative, since I am currently using the middle length and formerly startet with the shortest possible length. That the distortion is noticeable only on the lower end, is due to the heaviness of the camera and lens mounted on that not really optimal stative for that purpose. This usually tilts the camera a little bit so that it shoots not perfectly down, but just that aligns the upper end pretty good. Here is still some room for further experiments ;)
When I find the time I'll presumably post a short description of the 'how I did this' and maybe some photos of the setup in the Cool Photos section. This might also be handy if someone wants to do the photo thing for the sci-fi stuff (that obviously deserves it too ;) ).


Now the much more important things:

Well, now that it seems we have all potentially contributors for a *free unbelievable extraordinary awesome Tile System based DF MM map design tool* ;) on board here, we should be able to arrange something to put everything togehter in a while.

pfworks offer to create a special tileset compilation of his images for the software would be very welcome.
My sugestions for that would be:

1) Just one resolution (we have to decide which we want to use, which will also be an important information for me regarding the creation of the photo set).

2) Restructure the folders a little bit:
Move the caverns in a separate folder (and potentially in it's own zip archive ?) and organize them like the other categories (as anyone knows there is some really nifty cavernous river and lake stuff comming this year blowing up the cavern setting :D ).

Maybe organize the rest a little different (Instead of 'Base' use a 'Floor&Walls' or even separate 'Floors' and 'Walls' folders and copy all common floor and wall pieces (6x6 and 6x4 floor; long, diagonal & curved wall; ...) *except* the really special ones (like mermaid fountain , demon archway, the floor set tiles) therein. But this is more or less just a question of taste and not as necessary as the separation of the caverns.

We should also consider an appropriate structure above the tileset folders, where I just sugest to use some like the following:
- MasterMaze (to be able to put it next to doom or other sets in case someone plays one of these games too)
- drawings (the technical drawings from pfworks)
- photos (the photo shots)

And within each of that two
- <SetType> (Fantasy, Cavern, DoE, ...)
- Floors & Walls
- Passages
- Special
- Accessories
- some series specific, like Halves, Narrow Passages, etc.

3) I think it would be sufficient if you just permit the rest of us to compile an appropriate set out of the existing images. Most of them are allready perfect or can be easy adjusted to work with the software
We could contact you then just for special 'recompilations' of tiles that cause some special problems.
Maybe we should discuss how we want to handle those critical tiles before, because during the experimental shots it came out very obviously, that the real tiles don't perfectly fit in common raster (the fantasy passages e.g. turned out to be a little bit smaller, while most cavern passages are noticeably larger!).
My first suggestion would be to stretch or squish everything to a 1-inch raster for ease of use and put some warning in the documentation file, that one should be careful with some critical tiles, especially when e.g. the larger caverns come to close to each other.

4) For upcoming new MM sets it would of course be very appreciated, given the case you would produce drawings for them as well, when you 'compile' them for the tile system too or again allow other people to do the neccessary adjustemnts.


Since you, CRasterImage, are now here, you might also be able to do some feature adjustments to the software sometime. My suggestions would be:

By the way: Did I allready say that this is a really cool piece of software?

1) The automatically rendered 'this really cool map was created with the help of ...' in each exported map image would be something that you should consider in order to enforce our credits into the maps. The copyright information that can allready be provided within a set xml could be used here, I think.

2) As the system allready does support drawing layers (map, objects, etc. as I read in the help.txt) it could be useful if some of the upper decoration layers won't stuck to the grid and if tiles there would be freely rotatable.
The killer version of that feature would be completely configurable drawing group layers. Within the set xml one would be able to configure the groups then (define draw layer group X with attributes for sticktogrid=true/false, minrotatingangle=value and what else may be handy for that. Potentially configurations in referenced set xml should be ingnored then, making only the one in the actually open set xml active).

3) A 'flip all tiles to normal/flipped side' button would be very useful for the combination of drawing and photo view. It eliminates the need to select all tiles in advance.

4) The guys that are doing the large convention setups may also have some interrsting ideas how the reporting function could be extended (counting overused pieces e.g.). I am currently not sure how important such features may be for some of the potential users, since I am more or less the 'normal' user that would just like to layout 'normal' sized maps quickly on the PC and get a print of it and the tilelist.

Would you also consider to put the final MM file sets on your Web page?
So Jeff and Stefan could simply link to it if they like to do so.

I think it would be a good idea to use the 'basetilesets' attribute feature for those set files:
We create one zip with drawings and photos of each MM type (fantasy, cavern, DoE, Sci-Fi, upcoming mystery taverns? :D, etc.) and also provide a 'gimme all'-set file that references all those other files.
Together with a short 'customizing set files'-howto, as suggested from arsthein, anyone should be able to produce their indivdual set files, reflecting their MM inventory.

So for me know the first important step would be a decision about what resolution we should use for all the images, so that I can start with the photo production for the Fantasy set soon.
I still think that 100dpi is sufficient and it helps keeping the PNGs at a reasonable size level.
Maybe the 'we want to print everything on a giants toilett paper roll'-people :D have some arguments pro 200dpi?
Maybe CRasterImage can give some information what he thinks about the influence of the image file sizes on program performance and resource usage (especially memory).

Well this was a lot to write, and now you have a lot to read an think about ...
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#13415
TileSystem Sreenshots & Example Layouts 8 Years, 2 Months ago  
Hi pfworks,

I did not yet tried to print an exported photo example, but I'll probably manage to do that this evening. Since I have only a B/W Laser Printer i can not check how it would look if one prints it in color ;)

About the labeling: In Fact that should be possible, but for the first time I would let that up to anybody who want's to do so for himself, because it's easier to put for example some indivual white text labels in the images, than removing them if you do not like/want them.
With the secret door the problem should no be so big, because I tend to photograph it in an open position, which should alow to notice it when you do not look from to far apart. The 'wall with arrow loop hole' seems to be more a problem in that case, because you can hardly tell the difference between it and a normal wall when seen from above (maybe some nifty lighting could be used to produce a shadow on the floor with light in it shinig throught the hole ;) ).
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#13416
TileSystem Sreenshots & Example Layouts 8 Years, 2 Months ago  
Hi CRasterImage! Welcome and congratulations for your program!! It's the coolest I've seen for this task!!!

Wow this is taking shape very fast...

Hey Lonestarr, if you sell that pictures I buy them!!! Well done!!!
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I want my DF Spiderweb Accesories Set!!! ^O^U
 
#13417
TileSystem Sreenshots & Example Layouts 8 Years, 2 Months ago  
As i allready mentioned I don not intend to sell those pictures.

I will contribute the tile set version of them as free as the software is and unfortunately the images of pfworks are (almost).
It should be really sufficient for us to have some credits on all those generated maps. After all I think most of us are doing some hobby stuff here and not busines. And as I see from the other threads we all will need our money to buy all those upcoming nifty sets instead of buying software and pictures from each other ;).

Similar to pfworks i will keep the original shots, just in case they might come to use for something else sometime, despite I do not think that anyone could use them for anything. With 8MP they are really big and would not even be postable in the Photos Section here. But if anyone is interested in them and likes big mail attachments or has a ftp server to put them on: Just ask me when I have the complete shots available. :D

Finally, if we can setup this free software toy, eh... tool ;) with sets for DF MM and maybe also adjust some of the softwares features, we have a pretty nice demonstration of how just a small comunity can produce some awesome stuff, if just the right people get together. In fact the most important contribution is the allready finished software from CRasterImage here.
And because we all have some fun in creating and using the stuff during our spare time (I just guess) we do not have to calculate how much it costs us to produce it, if there is a market at all, for what price to sell it, how to copy protect it and all these other busines considerations, which can really be a pain in the a... and often prevent things to come up at all, when they're planned with money-making in mind.
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#13418
TileSystem Sreenshots & Example Layouts 8 Years, 2 Months ago  
Oh man, it was some sort of expression, I didn't meant that you were going to sell the pics o.O

I'm very very interested in having them when you finish! I think my email account can download 8Mb without problem, perhaps not much more (I hope!).

With the software and the pics I would be very happy only having to configure my own inventory... :-D
arsthein
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#13419
TileSystem Sreenshots & Example Layouts 8 Years, 2 Months ago  
Well arsthein, considering that each original high resolution jpg camera shot with 8MPixel is round about 2-3 MB, I could send you approximately 2 or 3 images per mail :D

The cut out high-res versions are allready a little smaller but (at least the shots from yesterday) are potentially allready PNG (which is larger than JPG) because I sometimes have to rotate them a little for proper adjustment. Rotating adds the alpha channel to the pictures in GIMP and since the alpha channel will be needed anyway, this was just an ideal point to change to PNG format.
But when I take care enough it is possible to get the shots properly aligned directly (the shots from the day before yesterday were aligned properly; the tiles that were not properly aligned then, were simply not laying exactly on the grid paper) which would allow the jpg format for the cutted images.

But nevertheles, if you are really interested in those high-res versions, we presumably should find a better way, like a ftp server or so, for providing these.
LoneStarr
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#13420
TileSystem Sreenshots & Example Layouts 8 Years, 2 Months ago  
CRasterImage -

Welcome to the insane asylum! I think I can safely say that everyone here at the forum, at least in THIS thread and the similar ones elsewhere in the forum, are VERY appreciative of the work you've done on TileMapper!
Someone else here in the DF Forums had asked me, some months ago, to do some photos of custom pieces I've made (mostly by cutting up stock ones - they sometimes call me the 'Mad Butcher of DF', in memory of Sweeney Todd), but that slipped by the wayside. Now, with these beautiful shots from LoneStarr and pfworks, and your software, I'm not inclined to waste everyone's hard drive space with my pitiful photography skills. However, I may wind up sending jpg's of my butchery to LoneStarr so he can convert them to the correct format for TileMapper. Ditto to pfworks for the linedrawings.

One question: how hard would it be, for the inventory list setup, to add a numeric field for each piece, and the user could mark in there how many pieces he has? I ask this without even having installed the program yet (that's on the list of things to do today, right after I get off the forum!).If there's already something like that on here, then disregard the question. I only asked it because I'm a MS Access database programmer, so I'm somewhat familiar with the concept.

Anyway, THANK YOU for what certainly looks like it will be a great DM aid! ANd again, welcome aboard!

See ya!

Jim
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#13421
TileSystem Sreenshots & Example Layouts 8 Years, 2 Months ago  
pfworks, I am not familiar with Adobe Illustrator, so I don't know how you specify the bounding rectangle that is used for determining the size and shape of out output images.

Is it based on some kind of "page size" or "canvas size" properties?

The main concern for TileSystem is that the grid shown in the image's artwork aligns with it's lower left corner. If there are "extra pixels" ouside of a square (used for walls and whatnot) then the image needs to shift up or right by one square size (grid size) to give the pixels space to live. Even if it is more space than is needed for the extra bits.

Example:


This tile, from the doom tileset, is used in a system where the grid size is 64.
The checkerboard pattern indicates the area of the image that is made up of transparent pixels.
I have turned on grid lines and set them at 64 pixels.
You can see how each floor tile fits exactly into any given grid cell.

There seems to be lots of unused space around the edges of the image.
This is because I needed to draw some extra pixels that extended outside of the original 3x2 square area to depict walls on the top and bottom and puzzle piece components on the left and right sides.

So, I had to increase the size of my image from 3x2 squares, to 5x4 squares. Doing so, gave me the extra squares to draw those extra bits. Everything about the image has to conform to the gridsize, so the extra space had to be allocated in 64 pixel chunks. Note that every image in the doom tileset has a width and height that are evenly divisible by 64.
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#13422
TileSystem Sreenshots & Example Layouts 8 Years, 2 Months ago  
I will start on the copyright text feature tonight, since we all seem to agree about how it should work.

Next will be the "don't snap to grid or angle" feature.

How does this sound:

When defining a tile in the tileset, the author can add an attribute to the tile that indicates that you want to be able to play with it freeform.

So this old definition:
. <Tile name="chair" type="0" maxcount="10" warn="true">
. sometileschair.png
. </Tile>

would change to:
. <Tile name="chair" type="0" maxcount="10" warn="true" freeplacement="true">
. sometileschair.png
. </Tile>
CRasterImage
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#13423
TileSystem Sreenshots & Example Layouts 8 Years, 2 Months ago  
Oh my gosh!!! 2-3Mb per image?!? I think I had misunderstood you Lonestarr... sorry. But... I think we don't need so big images... the original DF tiles, had to sizes... the small one was enough, don't it...? I think I'm missing something...

CRasterImage, man, you are making me so happy!!! :-D
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I want my DF Spiderweb Accesories Set!!! ^O^U
 
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