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Invincible overlord and cronies
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TOPIC: Invincible overlord and cronies
#10555
Invincible overlord and cronies 8 Years, 11 Months ago  
Hi, I have a ?. When you make your setups do you leave all your stuff out? IE monsters and treasure or do you place them in as the characters progress. I absolutely love the plexiglass idea and will be stealing it.

Thanks for your response
maxwell
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#10556
Invincible overlord and cronies 8 Years, 11 Months ago  
Depends, some of the stuff i put in and leave in, espically if it is something out in the open that they would see easily when they walk into the room, or if it is an item that effects movement, gives cover or has another effect that has a direct game mechanic aspect to it. Along with that if it is hidden item, i won't put it in untill they find it or encounter it. "Monsters" I don't put in untill they know they are there.

It seems to take less time and break the game up less if everything (or most everything) is put out at once, if the bulk of the items are dropped at once things flow faster later. In a lot of cases in the games i run it doesn't matter that they can see everything all out at once becuase one of the first actions of the PC's is to try to find a terminal, jack in and down load plans for the base/ship/location and so typically they know what the rooms are, and can guess at what will be in them. I only cover things that they can't do that with, like caverns, or low tech worlds. But i do leave the "monsters" out, be they a squad of droids, or what not. Due to the fast communication speed in my genere movement of the antagonists can be very fast and flexable. And i don't want to have them out for the PC's to see and effect there actions unless they already know where they are (secruity camera's etc), and can track them, so i try to put everything but the critters out, or adventure objectives.

But some of that may not help you as much, since i typically go Sci-Fi, and Cover is Huge, and there is far less "treasure" it doesn't always equate well. Typically the "treasure" in the Sc-Fi games is just more gear. More clips, more guns, more medical supplies, food supplies etc that is covered in either a pile of goods, or a few crates. The treasure rooms are labeled "storage" or "supplies" and they rummage through those last, which is amazing, becuase there is typically something usefull to the adventure in them, but they always hit those last, many of them are running with a D&D concept of kill the antagonists, then loot the treasury... Which doesn't always help.
Ghenghis Ska
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More Sci Fi Please, request a DEAD END for Sci Fi Passages
Classes of the Old Republic
Some RPG and mini stats including the Exodus and AAT (along with good source of a Mini scale version of the AAT).
 
#10557
Invincible overlord and cronies 8 Years, 11 Months ago  
I, like GS, am a Sci-Fi gamer Maxwell.
I second basically everything he mentioned.
He did fail to mention the idea of OBJECTIVE.
This is the the end all/be all in Sci-Fi gaming while it is not usually in Fantasy.
This is especially so in Sci-Fi small unit tactics style playing.
Without a concrete and continuously mindful Objective, a unit is lost in play - truly MIA as far as gaming.

I love playing Sci-Fi adventures against players who normally play fantasy because what GS said is so true:
The treasure rooms are labeled "storage" or "supplies" and they rummage through those last, which is amazing, becuase there is typically something usefull to the adventure in them, but they always hit those last, many of them are running with a D&D concept of kill the antagonists, then loot the treasury... Which doesn't always help.
While these "nut cases" have to blow away anything that moves, I and my sci-fi veterans are moving around them while holding them in place with a noisey diversion, acquiring the objective, and skedaddling out of there!

Objective is one of the main pillars of Sci-Fi gaming.
The other pillars are: Maneuver, Mass, Offense, Security, Surprise, Simplicity, Economy of Force and Unity of Command.
You forget these in a Sci-Fi combat mission, and you have a situation that is pure FUBAR.

What I really love is playing against fantasy veterans that have no real concept of munitions expenditures because they are too used to magical quivers and the like.
Give them enough bait and wait for the fools to run out of consumables.
Then, one can make "life" interesting for such gamers; always remember it is a Chinese curse, not blessing, that says, "May you live in interesting times."
I like making opponents lives very "interesting".

I was even told by once by one of these fantasy veterans that it was unfair that they did not have unlimited munitions like they could get in D&D with their various artifacts.
I simply said in reply, "Welcome to the real world!"
RabidFox*
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SF: Starter(3), Passage(2), Alpha(7), Beta(2) someday soon;
Cavern: Cavern, Cavernous Passages, many individual pieces, Cavernous River & Wall and Cavernous Lake someday soon;
Fantasy: Room & Passages, Room, Octagonal Room, Wicked Additions I&II, Adv. Builder, Diagonal Walls Set, Dungeon Accessories, Medieval Furniture, many individual pieces.
 
#10558
Invincible overlord and cronies 8 Years, 11 Months ago  
Hi, Rabid Fox!

Mad Yank checking in here.

In sci-fi, as in fantasy, HOW you approach the game is dependent on MISSION.
If the mission is "hack 'n' slash", then you obviously go for the jugular every time there's an encounter.
If, on the other hand, your basic objective is crossing, then the goal is get from Point A to Point B.
If, on the gripping hand, you're after either loot or intel, then stealth, a/k/a "snoop 'n; poop" is the only way to go.

IMHO, ANY of those missions can be best accomplished by stealth. NOTHING demoralizes an opponent more than blithely strolling down a corridor, with not a care in the world, and then suddenly, ten bazillion berserker gamers erupt from the walls and floors!
EEEEKKK!:lol: :O :P
Mayhem ensues, then...
Silence; the berserkers are gone - and so is the loot!

Anyway, I just thought I'd interject my own take on combat missions. If you check out my Sig line, and consider that I was...accomplished at LZ security, you'll understand my affinity for "softly, softly slinks away."

BUT, it CAN be fun to just RIP into an enemy formation and see how many you can take with you. Remember, your status in Hell is determined by how many 'bad guys' you bring with you.

My comrades in arms ReBob and Joe and I should be running the joint in a week, if gaming wins count!

By the way, have you heard? There's a Serenity RPG book out now! I picked it up last night at my FLGS, along with an AT-AT and another Alpha set (his last one!).
Considering just how GRUNGY the Serenity is, it could be a perfect world for our Sci-Fi DF stuff!
Way cool :cool:!!

See Ya!!


Jim Kratzer
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#10559
Invincible overlord and cronies 8 Years, 11 Months ago  
But i think there are a fee different styles of play going, on I tend to run much more, almost exclusivly RPG than War/Skirmish Games. While I think RabiFox* tends to run more Skirmish/War Games. There is a some differences in them, but a lot of what RabidFox* and jkratzer say hold true in Sci-Fi, or Fantasy style RPG's or Skirmish games.

Players and GM's have to remember why you are all there, be it in the adventure/scenerio as players or GM, and why you play the game in the first place. Be it the Mission of the rescuing the princess from the floating castle (oh wait that was sci-fi again with Luke and Han storming the Death Star...), to what ever you are playing, Remeber the mission of what you are playing, and the mission of why you are playing to... To have fun.

Yeah I got Serenity over Christmass, haven't really had a chance to look over it yet, love the 'verse but don't know if we will switch games anytime soon, might "borrow" some concepts though... when i get the chance to read it, but our fantasy game is starting a new campaing with the new A Game of Thrones RPG so got to read that first for my Character.
Ghenghis Ska
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More Sci Fi Please, request a DEAD END for Sci Fi Passages
Classes of the Old Republic
Some RPG and mini stats including the Exodus and AAT (along with good source of a Mini scale version of the AAT).
 
#10560
Invincible overlord and cronies 8 Years, 11 Months ago  
I'll tell you what I do: I lay the setup out and then cover the whole thing with 1'x1' sections of black felt.
TheDungeonDelver
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Too much Dwarven Forge to list!
 
#10561
Invincible overlord and cronies 8 Years, 11 Months ago  
As far as layout and coverups, when I'm running a Convention game, I lay it all out in advance, then cover it with sections of cardboard, then a black dropcloth over that. The combination allows me to block all views of the layout.

See ya!

Jim Kratzer
jkratzer
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#10562
Invincible overlord and cronies 8 Years, 11 Months ago  
I'll tell you what I do: I lay the setup out and then cover the whole thing with 1'x1' sections of black felt.
That could get complicated thanks to gravity.
How do you do it?

We usually block off in LOS segments.
What you can see from the vantage point you are at is what is revealed when new areas come into view.

Hi, Rabid Fox!
Hi JK!

In sci-fi, as in fantasy, HOW you approach the game is dependent on MISSION.
If the mission is "hack 'n' slash", then you obviously go for the jugular every time there's an encounter.
If, on the other hand, your basic objective is crossing, then the goal is get from Point A to Point B.
If, on the gripping hand, you're after either loot or intel, then stealth, a/k/a "snoop 'n; poop" is the only way to go.

We are going at this with two different vernaculars JK.
To me MISSION is all nine Principles combined.
Someone has seriously StheP if Objective is lost amid the shooting though.
BTW, very rarely is the objective truly to simply blaze away at the enemy; if the objective really is not destruction of the enemy's capacity to wage war but to destroy the enemy's armed forces, then careful application of high explosive is much better at accomplishig this result than many, many rounds fired from small arms.

IMHO, ANY of those missions can be best accomplished by stealth. NOTHING demoralizes an opponent more than blithely strolling down a corridor, with not a care in the world, and then suddenly, ten bazillion berserker gamers erupt from the walls and floors!
EEEEKKK!:lol: :O :P
Mayhem ensues, then...
Silence; the berserkers are gone - and so is the loot!

Anyway, I just thought I'd interject my own take on combat missions. If you check out my Sig line, and consider that I was...accomplished at LZ security, you'll understand my affinity for "softly, softly slinks away."

Door gunner, huh?
I too, because of much practical, real-world experience, prefer the
... "softly, softly slinks away."
method.
It is also the same style that promotes the fantastic ambushes you wrote of.
What is your preference JK anyway: Linear-1side, Linear-2side, L-1side or L-2side?
All have great potential for destruction, but I only feel one has the true capacity for complete containment.

BUT, it CAN be fun to just RIP into an enemy formation and see how many you can take with you. Remember, your status in Hell is determined by how many 'bad guys' you bring with you.

My comrades in arms ReBob and Joe and I should be running the joint in a week, if gaming wins count!

I play(ed) in too many campaigns to just simply mow down the enemy.
Munitions cannot be expended in needless blazing away at the enemy.
Plus, the interrogation of prisoners is a great information gathering tool JK.
Stargrunt II actually incorporated interrogation into campaign play; I am trying to adapt that principle into other games I play.
Mechwarrior Second did as well, and MechWarrior Third took it even farther.

But i think there are a fee different styles of play going, on I tend to run much more, almost exclusivly RPG than War/Skirmish Games. While I think RabiFox* tends to run more Skirmish/War Games. There is a some differences in them, but a lot of what RabidFox* and jkratzer say hold true in Sci-Fi, or Fantasy style RPG's or Skirmish games.
Actually, from what he has posted, I do not know if JK plays almost any of what you refer to as "Skirmish/War Games".
He seems to play a lot of RPGs from what he says and from his signature.

As to the differences between RPGs and wargames, the similarities start to really emerge once your forces get indoors; this is especially so if you play double-blind rules.
There is a much greater difference between Sci-Fi and Fantasy war games than there is between Sci-Fi RPGs and wargames.
Sci-Fi = modern-style small unit tactics versus Fantasy = Napoleonic style fighting.
Fantasy wargames though are very different from Sci-Fi ones because the Fantasy ones are based on a whole different premise - formations.
Granted there might be some very few exceptions to this, but only one comes to mind - Mordheim.

Granted, there can be a great deal of difference from Sci-Fi wargaming and Fantasy RPGs, but I think that has more to do with dungeon master's & gamers' real life differences than anything inherant in the genres.
I have watched fantasy role-playing sessions with pure civilians and then other sessions where everyone has earned their CIB.
There was a night and day difference between the two groups and their playing.
The nine Principles seemed to be almost completely ignored by the first group.
The nine Principles were constantly being checked and considered with the second group's playing.
Guess what?
They were playing the very same D&D adventure just two weeks apart and one state away, but the two sessions were starkly different due to experience and the Principles.

Players and GM's have to remember why you are all there, be it in the adventure/scenerio as players or GM, and why you play the game in the first place. Be it the Mission of the rescuing the princess from the floating castle (oh wait that was sci-fi again with Luke and Han storming the Death Star...), to what ever you are playing, Remeber the mission of what you are playing, and the mission of why you are playing to... To have fun.

...

Sorry GS, I am a G.S. Patton, Jr. acolyte here.
He could not respect a man who lost and laughed.
Americans, in general, really do not either even though they preach that philosophy.
It is another one of those American hypocrisies out there.

If you lose, you study out how you will win next time.
If you win, you are gracious to your opponent in his presence, but then you study how you could have beat him worse with less attrit on your side and less consumables expended.

Maybe I play with too many current and former military and government personnel, but that is how we play.
Our enjoyment is in things like a gambit well-played, losing fewer forces than we destroyed, etc.
Some civies that play against us say we are no fun to play against because we "don't play for fun."
We just look at them seriously and ask, "What is fun?"
We just have our own type of "fun", I guess.

By the way, have you heard? There's a Serenity RPG book out now! I picked it up last night at my FLGS, along with an AT-AT and another Alpha set (his last one!).
Considering just how GRUNGY the Serenity is, it could be a perfect world for our Sci-Fi DF stuff!
Way cool :cool:!!
...

Firefly comes to the big screen and now to RPG, eh?
Thought I heard rumors of such.
Will not affect me much though.
Too much Old West motif and themes to be something I really want to play.
Starships and six-shooters - too conflicted for me!
Y'all enjoy it for yourselves though.
RabidFox*
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SF: Starter(3), Passage(2), Alpha(7), Beta(2) someday soon;
Cavern: Cavern, Cavernous Passages, many individual pieces, Cavernous River & Wall and Cavernous Lake someday soon;
Fantasy: Room & Passages, Room, Octagonal Room, Wicked Additions I&II, Adv. Builder, Diagonal Walls Set, Dungeon Accessories, Medieval Furniture, many individual pieces.
 
#10563
Invincible overlord and cronies 8 Years, 11 Months ago  
RabidFox and GS;

I have to admit, having been USAF, and having played Mech Commander on the PC, I have become firmly committed to one style of 'master-blaster' gaming, in ANY wargame universe.

Rolling Thunder, and Artillery!

If I can't spot for a wave of BUFFs via Wet Snow, then I want to call in at LEAST three batteries of 155s. Or, run naval gunfire spotter for the New Jersey!

What can I say; 16" naval guns mean never having to say you're sorry; there's no one left to apologize to!
Same goes for 750 lb. GPs and 155mm Howitzers.

BUT; if it's not a S&D sweep, then as I said before, NOTHING beats stealth approach, dish mikes, and stealth departure. They never even know I'm there, until some time later, when everything disappears.

Well, not EVERYthing; I have been known to leave the foundations of the building. They provide a great target when the Death Star comes calling! :lol:

Seriously, I've played Battletech, D&D and DragonStar in miniatures, and Mechwarrior, MW2 & 3, and MC/MC2 on the PC. What strategy you use depends entirely on your mission, just as you called it, RabidFox.
And you're right about CIB and wannabees; wannas will 'Nuke 'em till they glow, shoot 'em in the dark!' every time!
Only someone who's "Been there, done that, heard the whistle, saw the elephant" will CONSISTENTLY stick to mission profile.

How'd we get off onto this tangent, anyway? Aren't we supposed to drooling over Tom's and IO's beautiful layouts in this thread?

Drip.
Drip.
Drip.

See ya, guys!

Jim Kratzer
jkratzer
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#10564
Invincible overlord and cronies 8 Years, 11 Months ago  
Josef Stalin did say, "Artillery is the god of the battlefield."
Never liked the man, but he has some really true quotes about military, poltics and diplomacy.

Well IO, keep up the great work.
I can honestly say IO, I know of several persons that have been inspired by your set-up pics.
It is a shame that Dwarven Forge is not a bigger company; otherwise, it could bring you on to their Hobby/Convention Support Department like some other companies have.
Anyway IO, thanks for sharing such great set-ups!
RabidFox*
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SF: Starter(3), Passage(2), Alpha(7), Beta(2) someday soon;
Cavern: Cavern, Cavernous Passages, many individual pieces, Cavernous River & Wall and Cavernous Lake someday soon;
Fantasy: Room & Passages, Room, Octagonal Room, Wicked Additions I&II, Adv. Builder, Diagonal Walls Set, Dungeon Accessories, Medieval Furniture, many individual pieces.
 
#10565
Invincible overlord and cronies 8 Years, 10 Months ago  
Maxwell wrote:

Hi, I have a ?. When you make your setups do you leave all your stuff out? IE monsters and treasure or do you place them in as the characters progress.
Hi Max, welcome to the forum.

It depends. If I have a large dungeon set up I’ll cover the rooms in construction paper and lay miniatures and accessories that are taller than the wall height on their side until uncovering. Anything to large like a dragon, I’ll keep hidden on the side until needed.

Go to an art supply store and buy a large pad of inexpensive construction paper. Use a good pair of scissors to cut pieces just larger than your room sizes. After a few mazes you’ll be surprised how many you can start to reuse from dungeon to dungeon. They’ll keep nice in oversized folder as well.

I absolutely love the plexiglass idea and will be stealing it.
I’d like to see what you come up with. You could probably make them better. Here’s a link to what was going to be my original route in making these. It’s a company that makes 2’x2’ acrylic sheets in heavy gauge, and also makes “solid" acrylic tubes. I’ve had no problems with the ones I’ve made, their quite strong and can hold a good deal of weight, but better is better so if it wasn’t for my impatience I’d have made them with the “solid" tubes which I couldn’t find locally.

www.usplastic.com/catalog/category.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&category%5Fname=63&Page=1

Happy New Year!

Mike
invincibleoverlord
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"Its either a wand to cast Bigby's Hand spells or a +3 backscratcher. We're not sure which."
 
#10566
Invincible overlord and cronies 8 Years, 10 Months ago  
HEh heh heh

It really is amazing to see how many styles of play there are.

Here's something nobody's considered: a game with NO combat.

Yup, that's right. I've played many a fantasy game, as a DM or a player, in which combat simply played no role. Just like life!

As someone who plays almost no SF to speak of, I can't say whether this sort of game would work for that genre. But in fantasy, it can be quite fun.

In fact, the recently issued D&D DM's Guide II (I think it was that one) has rules for running a business in a fantasy campaign! All sorts of things to take into account for your venture, sounds like a blast, but I haven't had time to run it.

That's really what I like about this hobby -- it is wide open for what kind of game you want to play.

Oh, and RF, I don't think GS was really implying anything huge about "laughing and losing." You've implied pretty strongly that you'd be bored in a game against people with no wargaming skills such that your victory was quick and uninteresting. So clearly you can imagine winning and still being bored? So "winning" does not equal "having fun" -- and I think GS was picturing a situation where a game is well played and interesting and you still lose. Sure, you want to learn from it and win next time, and you weren't IN it to lose. But it's still fun! Anyone who can only enjoy games they win is in for a lot of misery in this life...

L
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