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Board Restructuring
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TOPIC: Board Restructuring
#8567
Board Restructuring 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
I'm going to be spending some time in the near future reorganizing and restructuring the message boards to better serve the community. This means new forum categories, and the likely combining/elimination of some existing ones (though my intention is to preserve all old posts within the new structure. )

If you have any ideas for new forums, or existing forums which you find useful and want to keep around, I'd like to hear your suggestions. Feel free to post them here or send me a PM. As always, if you have any questions or concerns, just let me know.

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#8568
Board Restructuring 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
Really good idea, I think it's gonna look great when it's done.

Here would be some of my top-of-my-head suggestions:

DF News
Ask DF
FAQ/CoC -- possibly could just be sticky under "news" and/or "ask DF"
Cool Photos
Fantasy DF
Sci-Fi DF
"Other products" gaming section (possibly including a "photos" subcategory)
OT section
Reviews

I think "How do I use this?" and "map ideas" can be folded into regular ol' fantasy/SF forums, they don't need their own sections. Similarly, "feedback" of all sorts can go under "Ask DF"

Since everyone at DF has been kind enough to allow rampant talk of competing products here, a section for "other products" would be nice -- so we can continue to bring to each other's attention cool items we think the DF audience might appreciate. A section dedicated to cool stuff made by other companies would be great. Similarly, a section for purely off-topic discussions -- i.e. unrelated to gaming in almost any way -- is always fun to have.

And I thought a "reviews" section would be nice -- it could get folded into the other sections (fantasy DF, SF DF, etc) easily, but it would have the advantage of collecting all the same kinds of threads in one place for newbies. That way, you don't have old reviews vanishing up to p. 27 of a really big forum -- they're all collected together for easy reference. With most other topics, I think simpler is better, so you don't have to guess which forum section is the fitting place for your post -- but for reviews, having them all together, with nothing else there, is probably the most convenient.

I'll be curious to see what other people's suggestions are....

L
Law
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"In every real man a child is hidden that wants to play."

-- F. Nietzsche
 
#8569
Board Restructuring 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
I agree on the idea of a section for discussing useful stuff to bring to your DF dungeon from other manufacturers, like various scenery items, or things that can be combined in interesting ways to enhance the DF parts.

The other ideas are also of interest.
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#8570
Board Restructuring 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
Instead of just SF, Fantasy, and other MM, can we have a section for all four genres (F, SF, C, DOE)?
That way if a player has zip interest in one of the four, they do not have to wade through the mess.

What may be really cool here is outright header sections between SF and F.
A cavern section may be cool too.
The forum leads may be identical, but it will keep things much more comfortable.
I think GS would agree with me in that having people who really play with the SF MM are more informative to read than Fantasy folks commenting on something they do not play with.
To speak out of your usual genre will take some effort that way and this may make some of the genre purists more comfortable to make comments in their area.
I am definitely on the opposite side of the continuum from "L" as far as making the DF Forums more divided rather than less.

Also, can we separate out the photos a bit more?
I know the genres get mixed a bit, but can we at least separate them out according intent as to F vs. SF?
You know, "F Photos" & "SF Photos".

Keep the FAQ/COC section separate.
There is enough already enough legitimate news; do not clutter!

Map ideas may not work as separate genre forums.
This forum seemed to deal more with the mechanics of mapping DF product than actual layouts.
As far as actual layouts, Jeff & Co. need to take some of the best from the old forum, and lay them out on the company WEB site in B&W in an easy to download and then read .pdf section.
Use the old ones that were on the old company WEB page, but also add ones seen on the DF forums.

Furthermore, if we are going to have a section on the forum for layouts, I would like the moderator to be the one that all layouts are submitted to before posting.
That way they may be posted in a more coherant fashion with the major issue of reducing the duplication and/or mostly duplication on the forum of the same old layouts just turned 90 degrees with maybe five parts changed.

There are some absolutely great layouts like from InvincibleOverlord and Tom of France, but then there is a lot of same ol' chaff that gets thrown up onto the forum too.
I would just like it a lot more organized so do do not have to wade through so much to see the fairly good ones, let alone the great ones.

Reviews?
I do not know.
There is already enough opinion thrown around that actual reviews from posters may be a bit much.
What I would like to see is more of a review news section in that professional reviews from over the years on the different DF product would be posted.
Maybe even a way to contact the professional reviewer to get a more full understanding of why they said what they said.
I think that would be far more informative than just ANOTHER place to "give forth" opinion.

I defintely support willypold's idea of a forum section on dealing with other companies' products that go well with DF MM.
A separate photo section here, I think, would be incredibly useful to both the gamers and DF.
Might even build some good will with the other companies that may pay off in mutual endorsements to some level.

Well, there is what I would like to see as far as changes.
Here's hoping!
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SF: Starter(3), Passage(2), Alpha(7), Beta(2) someday soon;
Cavern: Cavern, Cavernous Passages, many individual pieces, Cavernous River & Wall and Cavernous Lake someday soon;
Fantasy: Room & Passages, Room, Octagonal Room, Wicked Additions I&II, Adv. Builder, Diagonal Walls Set, Dungeon Accessories, Medieval Furniture, many individual pieces.
 
#8571
Board Restructuring 9 Years, 1 Month ago  

I think GS would agree with me in that having people who really play with the SF MM are more informative to read than Fantasy folks commenting on something they do not play with.
To speak out of your usual genre will take some effort that way and this may make some of the genre purists more comfortable to make comments in their area.


Got to totally disagree.
It's all Dwarven forge, seeing what other people do, and hearing suggestions, with what ever set they use helps get the idea and versatility of the DF sets as a whole across. Ideas from one group can easily be applied to another and splitting the board into lots of little camps and factions to me seems counter productive, I am equally interested in seeing what others do with the other set ups. Even though I may not own any Fantasy the pictures and the ideas people express can be very valuable. The look of a layout or set up gives me my ideas, not what particular set it is made of.

Back in grad school when I was taking my 4th Taxonomy class, my project had a tangential element of tying genetic classification tools to classical morphological techniques for better determination of a morphologically indistinct genus. On of my collection areas had on record for the past few decades, just two species of our organism of interest growing in it, by the time we were done we had upped the number to five and an ecotype (had really hoped it was a new species, had the name picked out and everything... ;) ) But that work brought up an interesting series of discussion about are you "a lump-er or a splitter", most of the group being people much more interested in taxonomy quickly fell into two camps, lump-ers who wanted broader traits to define taxonomic classifications, and splitters looking to increase the number of different defining features to break things up. When Dr. M. looked at to me because I was staying out of the argument, I had to think about it, in the end I decided I was neither, there was weight and merit to both approaches, in the end the usefulness of the system and does it make sense won out over we just make things simpler or more complex.

With me being neither a lump-er nor a splitter, it's all Dwarven Forge, the basic building elements of DOE, SF:MM and F:MM are all the same, wall sections, corners, corridors, doors and angled walls. In the set ups barring some of the wicked additions, and traps sets there are most of the pieces that are common to all three set ups. Most anything done with one can be done with the other, and if that piece doesn't exist the footprint can be duplicated most likely with what does exist as common between the three.

I have gained inspiration and ideas from looking at many of the Fantasy setups, because in the most basic sense as long as it isn't the caverns set they all are the same pieces, they all have the same shape, just with different paint jobs on them. A set up done by some one with fantasy can be used by some in Sci-Fi, or even Den of Evil as whitewind's recent thread shows.

I am be a purist in the fact that I use DF only for Sci-Fi, but I can draw ideas from the other groups and still just use Sci-Fi. And what happens if you are not a purist? Once some one goes out side of just one genre, whom breaks down what goes where?
Where would that thread go in the splitters design, would you drop it into F:MM because it is made of F:MM or DOE, because it talks about what DOE can do. Also how do you categorize set ups with say Caverns and SF:MM or Caverns and F:MM or SF: and F:MM, or heck all four sets?

Splitting the pictures into limited groups I think can only hurt the products, looking at all of the nifty ideas and innovations people come up with using a set I don't own but has the same pieces gives a usefulness to the Cool Pictures Thread, and is what drew me to purchase in the first place. The mess of ideas and images spawned by everyone being together is fertile soil for my games, I have borrowed from a F:MM set up because I liked the look it created, and reproduced it as best I could in SF:MM.

Keep the air to discuss and talk about DF as open and free as possible, don't have moderators or anyone else make decisions on what is a good enough layout to be placed onto the boards(that is not to say there should be no regulation at all of what is posted, but as long as it is DF based I don't think any one person should say what is bad), I know many of my early ones were bad, but by doing more and looking at others you get better, and seeing all of the odd bits and pieces people put in their layouts help to flesh out your own terrain, the free exchange of ideas expands everyone’s ability to produce better layouts in their own games.
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More Sci Fi Please, request a DEAD END for Sci Fi Passages
Classes of the Old Republic
Some RPG and mini stats including the Exodus and AAT (along with good source of a Mini scale version of the AAT).
 
#8572
Board Restructuring 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
I agree as far as not splitting the setups section. A setup in Fantasy is the same as a setup in SF is the same as a setup in DoE. Granted, special purpose areas, like a hangar bay in sci-fi, may not have relevance in a fantasy setup, but the fantasy builder can still find inspiration in these designs and adapt them to his/her own purposes.

I do like the idea of the cream-of-the-crop setups appearing on the larger DF website. However, I'd hate to discourage people from posting setups just because they think their arrangements aren't up to snuff. I say post it all! If someone wants to use their DF to make a diorama for their limited edition spoon collection, let them do it and let's see how it turns out! Inspiration can come from anywhere!

Oh, and can we have a section just for mods and custom pieces?

Thanks,

Yukon
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#8573
Board Restructuring 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
Fine then GS, you are not a splitter.
I found in my actual use of my taxonomy that lumping explained very little in my observations.
Lumpers do things like just use "cat"; meanwhile splitters understand that a cheetah, a lion and a puma are very different are therefore in three different generis(did I plural that correctly?).

Can anyone really deny that the photo section has gotten incredibly ponderous?
It is not reader/viewer friendly anymore.
If it was split, it would not be such a monster-thing

It must be split up in some way.
I have gotten to the point I just scan quickly, usually finding nothing of great interest, and then just have the machine mark them all as read.
If we split the F & SF genres, that would then allow for specialization that can be used effectively.
It is not as if anyone would be prohibited from looking on the other side of the "fence", so why not split it?
Let us have sleek photo sections rather than a single ponderous THING that does not encourage viewing!

The idea of having the moderator edit the layouts put up is to avoid the massive duplication that is occurring.
The layouts in the photo area are getting monotonous.
The moderator can give creative encouragement that will make the whole idea more positive than if it looks like, "Here come twisty maze #4471!" again or its clone.
Creativity would be encouraged this way.

I think too often that open and free air soon becomes overly congested air that is meaningless and useful to none.
For example - Politically Correct speak.
One professor in college years ago said that we would get so PC that eventually we could talk an hour and the only meaningful thing said would be "Hello."
We are getting there in this world.
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SF: Starter(3), Passage(2), Alpha(7), Beta(2) someday soon;
Cavern: Cavern, Cavernous Passages, many individual pieces, Cavernous River & Wall and Cavernous Lake someday soon;
Fantasy: Room & Passages, Room, Octagonal Room, Wicked Additions I&II, Adv. Builder, Diagonal Walls Set, Dungeon Accessories, Medieval Furniture, many individual pieces.
 
#8574
Board Restructuring 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
Well, I wouldn't object to the photo section being distributed by style -- Fantasy/Sci-Fi would probably be enough, as DoE is limited (and more fantasy than SF anyway) -- and the cavern pieces can be used with either SF or Fantasy, so forcing a cavern setup to one or the other might not be easy.

As for the rest --

1. Deciding what posts/pics "deserve" to be up is a moot point -- nobody wants to spend the time. I doubt the moderator will be inclined to review every pic before allowing it to go up.

2. The taxonomy debate reminds me of an age-old problem in metaphysics -- the question of "natural kinds." Since Plato, people have wondered if it is possible to identify something by its essence, picking out the divisions "at the joints" that exist in nature -- when you find an X, you know it is an X precisely because you know what it shares with every other X and what it does not have in common with Ys and Zs. It gets rather tricky, as counter-examples can be found for most suggestions, and it looks eventually like there are no natural kinds and our conceptual divisions are based on convention, tradition, and contain an element of the arbitrary that cannot be fully purged.

There are, of course, reasons for both "lumping" and "splitting," and I think it goes too far to say one is uninformative. If you need fine distinctions for a reason, it is crucial to know the difference between, say, a puma and a cougar. However, it can be just as important to see what characteristics are shared, to know the difference between "feline" and "canine," and without those shared traits, the world would be unintelligible chaos to us.

I side with Pascal -- "Unity without multiplicity is tyranny, multiplicity without unity is chaos."

L
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#8575
Board Restructuring 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
It looks like we might need to have a Taxonomy forum.


:mrgreen:
Transit
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#8576
Board Restructuring 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
I don't care how the forums are divided, I will read all of them anyways, as I imagine the majority of us will.

As for the moderator deciding what content goes on the forum.
That's never going to happen and should not.

Who is the moderator to decide who's photo's are good enough? Besides, I think for many people in this hobby showing off their pictures here is part of their fun, even if the quality is not perfect or may be redundant.

I don't know how others feel, but for me this is just a fun hobby, and I would hate to see it become some sort of private club where only the "best" can put up their stuff.

Robert
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Robert
 
#8577
Board Restructuring 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
Perhaps we should handle photos like this:

1) Have a section for photos, with each type getting it's own forum (Sci-Fi Photos, Cavern Photos, DOE Photos, Fantasy Photos, and Mixed Photos.) These forums would be for anything a poster could dream up, from dioramas to close-ups of figures using DF backdrops, people playing their favorite games with DF, etc.)

2) Have a separate section for setups, which will have some basic guidelines for the information posts should include, such as the application of the setup, the number and types of sets used, descriptions of key areas, scenery, top-down photos or map drawings, etc. The goal of this section would be to create environments that players could adapt or use outright in their RPG, wargame, etc.

And just to clarify, the goal of these forums is to be as inclusive as possible. Everyone is/will be welcome to post regardless of their skill level or involvement in their particular hobby.
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#8578
Board Restructuring 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
...

... think it goes too far to say one is uninformative. If you need fine distinctions for a reason, it is crucial to know the difference between, say, a puma and a cougar. However, it can be just as important to see what characteristics are shared, to know the difference between "feline" and "canine," and without those shared traits, the world would be unintelligible chaos to us.


I added the emphasis above.

Uh . . . well . . . L, , you do know you made a funny above, right?
Or is a mountain lion a third type of big cat?
Or is a purple panther a fourth type?
Or is el tigre in regional Mexican dialects there a fifth type?
Or is a catamount a sixth type?
Or is an American Lion a seventh type?
Lastly is a painter a eighth type of big cat?

Metaphysics you know well L, but felines are not one of your areas of expertise evidently.
All eight are the same animal, just located in different parts of North America.
I prefer "puma" myself because it is indicative, simple and keeps what you are talking about away from Africa or Asia.
"Puma" is actually the Inca word for these cats which at one time ranged from Northern Alaska clear down to Tierra del Fuego; humans have cut that range way down!
Who knows, do you Canadians out there have another name for this feline, the largest native feline to North America, the largest species in the genus Felis, the largest cat therefore that can purr?
Basically L, you split a single species into two separate ones here with what you wrote.
Anyway L, at least for us out here, where the puma still ranges, your mistake above was a great funny for a very long day.
No offense intended.

Genera Panthera(lions, tigers, etc., oh my!) and Acinonyx (sole surviving member - the Cheetah)are very much different from pumas and the rest of Felis.
These other two genera have many very different characteristics from the members of Felis.
In actuality these three genera almost have more characteristics different than in common, but they, as a family, (irony in this classification system is that genus means family in Latin, but it is a lesser level) are more a like than other genera in other families (e.g. canis)

Domestic cats are part of Felis, but the Cheetahs of Acinonyx are easier to housebreak.
The Egyptians were the first recorded people to do so and they used them to hunt big game like impala and ibex.
Additionally, the Egyptians domesticated the Mao and used it in their homes, graineries and temples, but also used them to hunt birds and fish.
What enlightened people!
They did not really get into that trap of associating much with that genus of less than intelligent animals - canis.
BTW, we have three cats - - the feces all in one easy-to-clean spot, great companions (I must admit, they hate car rides - associated with vet trips and/or another move to a whole new set of smells to be catalogued) plus no varmints of any type for long no matter where we have lived.
Huzzah for CATS!

I side with Pascal -- "Unity without multiplicity is tyranny, multiplicity without unity is chaos."

L


I heard it a bit differently L and was told it was attributed to Pythagoras.
Oh well, "post office/telephone talk" is not a fun game inside reality; does horrible things as a result at historical conferences.
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SF: Starter(3), Passage(2), Alpha(7), Beta(2) someday soon;
Cavern: Cavern, Cavernous Passages, many individual pieces, Cavernous River & Wall and Cavernous Lake someday soon;
Fantasy: Room & Passages, Room, Octagonal Room, Wicked Additions I&II, Adv. Builder, Diagonal Walls Set, Dungeon Accessories, Medieval Furniture, many individual pieces.
 
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