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Board Restructuring
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TOPIC: Board Restructuring
#8615
Board Restructuring 8 Years, 11 Months ago  
Oh yes, I think some folks enjoy hijacking. Not me but rarly will you hear me complain about it. Thanks for such a " quick responce '... I know that now there is not much I can do about it. I don't think we all need to be that savy about the working of the company. We need to buy the product and make some sugestions yes but borderline harrasment? No.
whitewind
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#8616
Board Restructuring 8 Years, 11 Months ago  
Yeah, I gotta say, there are two points there that I wouldn't agree with, if you mean them as they sound.

1."Unlike what some folks here think, gaming is a business."

Does anyone here think it's not? I don't see your meaning here. We all know it's a business, but some people are more interested in discussing that aspect of it than others. Shouldn't be surprising -- people have different tastes.

2. "The gaming part cannot be disconnected from the business part."

Again, not sure what you mean. In one sense, the answer is "Sure it can." Moviemaking is a business, too, but I can enjoy a movie, and discuss it with my friends, without talking about the business aspect.

It makes perfect sense to me that people might want to talk about what they think of the latest releases, how their recent games have gone, what kinds of homemade conversions they've come up with, what kind of setups they've been building -- and yet never be interested in the business side of things.

Some people on this forum might be 10 year-old kids with no interest in finance. Some might be 20 year-olds with no interest in it, for that matter!

Nobody's saying that the business of business shouldn't be discussed or isn't interesting -- just that maybe it deserves its own sub-heading, since it is not something that everyone is interested in.

Aren't you the one who frequently talks about having to skim through posts that don't interest you? :)

L
Law
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"In every real man a child is hidden that wants to play."

-- F. Nietzsche
 
#8617
Board Restructuring 8 Years, 11 Months ago  
Having deleted the complete answer I already wrote out, let us go with the KISS one.

Too often I read persons' postings which seem to be so carefree about the heath of DF, that they seem to ignore the fact that for them to continue enjoying the product they do now and to get re-supply of old and presentation of new product, DF must remain solvent and healthy.
If enough persons here, both the few who are actual DF staffers and the more numerous DF posters, ignore that section of the paradigm, then DF will follow the footsteps of GDW, FASA, Geo-Hex and others into gaming history.
If people who like DF actually become more involved, then DF has a fighting chance to make more gaming history than it already has.
Involved means a great deal more than just talking about DF business here.
It means talking up the product at every con, shoppe and club they attend and also showing it off in public functions.
I go to a fair number of game stores during my consistent weekly travels; I always have a playable amount of DF MM in my vehicle on these trips.
I talk up the product and also highlight it with actual gaming that shows how cool and useful the DF MM is.
Granted, I now cannot even bring DF product or pics into a baker's dozen or so of those shoppes I visit due to new shoppe rules, but I still discretely talk about DF a fair bit at those establishments.
How much are each of us doing, besides buying a rather insignificant amount of DF MM ourselves, to aid in the growth and thereby health of DF?
Are all of the games you run, especially ones in public, run on DF MM?
DF does not have its own version of the GW Outriders or the FP Commandoes, but are each of us doing that much to encourage purchases by others.
Or are we relying on DF and/or word of mouth to do all the work for us?

That is the KISS summation of all I wrote in the first response.
This time am I more clear about what I am saying L?
And in contrast to your opinion here L, there ARE persons who have posted that we should never discuss the business aspects of DF and no one but I spoke out against that restriction; that makes it sound very much like no one really cares beyond the moment about DF L.
RabidFox*
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SF: Starter(3), Passage(2), Alpha(7), Beta(2) someday soon;
Cavern: Cavern, Cavernous Passages, many individual pieces, Cavernous River & Wall and Cavernous Lake someday soon;
Fantasy: Room & Passages, Room, Octagonal Room, Wicked Additions I&II, Adv. Builder, Diagonal Walls Set, Dungeon Accessories, Medieval Furniture, many individual pieces.
 
#8618
Board Restructuring 8 Years, 11 Months ago  
Well yes lets go the KISS way. We are not DF employies.... We are not distributers... We can only give sugestions about what we are gleaning from the surface..... Any more KISS than that would be insulting. It just does not make sence to me to keep " Badgering " an issue we clearly don't have all the info on. Ehhhh, am I right??? :rolleyes:
whitewind
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#8619
Board Restructuring 8 Years, 11 Months ago  
Unfortunately whitewind, you are actually not right; at least that is if you want DF to thrive.
If someone here does not have all the info whitewind, then look for it; DF is not the only reliable source of information in the gaming industry and about DF 's part in it.
Pursue the knowledge whitewind!
It is not exactly hidden in any real fashion.
Some of us like willypold and myself have worked in the industry and still have contacts in it.
Another method is to actually listen to your game shoppe staff; do not gossip with them - just listen to what they have heard - more often than not, they have heard far more than you have, but do not share it as simple gossip.
Info always has a price.

If someone simply does not care, they really do not have to participate in the discussion whitewind.
I believe L said something to that effect just a few postings back, did he not?

On the otherhand whitewind, you are right in that almost all we can do with DF directly is make suggestions, but if you are limiting your effort to only making suggestions at DF, then are you really trying to work out the issue?
Does not seem so at least.

Whitewind, your response is exactly what I was talking about with L.
Let's just be "dumb and happy" while the nectar runs, but let's not worry about it ever running out.
It is simply the story of the grasshopper and the ants.
Remember, the grasshopper died because he was not interested in where his food or shelter came from and did not care about storing any supplies - in other words, why work for his needs or his fun?
If we, the DF enthusiasts on this forum, do not take the effort to go the extra mile as to promoting DF to all of the RPG and wargamers we play or associate with, not one of the "grasshoppers" here can point a finger at anyone if they do not get what DF MM they like or if DF goes under due to a true lack of real support by its alleged enthusiastic supporters.

DF is now going only with direct on-line sales; that increases the burden dramatically on the enthusiast to promote DF product so as to expand the scope of those who buy into the DF terrain system.
Truly, if we do not, then who is going to?
The local game shoppe will not!
Distributors like Alliance and its ilk will not!
Competing gaming companies and their cons will not!
These days folks, it is almost completely up to us now.
DF might be able to do things like in Game Trade Monthly (maybe not even that now since they are going direct & Alliance publishes GTM) and similar general gaming ads & links, but how many of your local shoppes even carry GTM?
Most shoppes I deal with do not.

BTW whitewind, do you know what KISS is?
Your posting did not really indicate you understood the term!

Additionally, why is it when you disagree with someone you start using words like "badgering"?
That is not language conducisive to serious discussion or concern.

I sincerely hope that the DF fans end up understanding in time about what we now need to do to endorse DF MM and then "toe the line" in a fashion where we will contribute to DF's thriving success.
RabidFox*
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SF: Starter(3), Passage(2), Alpha(7), Beta(2) someday soon;
Cavern: Cavern, Cavernous Passages, many individual pieces, Cavernous River & Wall and Cavernous Lake someday soon;
Fantasy: Room & Passages, Room, Octagonal Room, Wicked Additions I&II, Adv. Builder, Diagonal Walls Set, Dungeon Accessories, Medieval Furniture, many individual pieces.
 
#8620
Board Restructuring 8 Years, 11 Months ago  
RF:

You've got it, 100%; since DF has decided to go Mail-order/Web-order only, in order to keep OUR cost down, we OWE Stefan, Jeff, & the crew at DF the loyalty to talk them up at EVERY OPPORTUNITY - unless we are tired of great scenery and fantastic possibilities.
NO, DF can't make EVERY PIECE we want to see; with the diverse games we run, they'd go bankrupt in Very Short Order if the tried. BUT, I've talked with Jeff via e-mail and phone, and as long as what we make doesn't steal what THEY manufacture, he's never objected to me using their parts to make others - FOR PERSONAL USE ONLY :!: As an example, I used 25 2x2 floor tiles to make a 10x10 floor piece for a dungeon, just because it was easier to set up for a game. I've made 6" SF walls for the same reason. They never go past my setups, and I tell people that I made them (mainly because I'm still learning resin-casting techniques, and will NOT let people think that slightly-crooked wall was from DF!). Jeff has never told me STOP (and if he does, I will; that's the law), and that's another reason why I SUPPORT their company.
I've been the RPG GM at Shore Leave for 4 years now, and every year I've dragged a ton (literally, it seems) of DF to the convention, just to show it off and use it. Half the time, I only wind up using a small portion of what I drag there, but I always take it, because it affords flexibility in my set-up.
Yes, I want more goodies, especially in the SF and caverns. BUT, I am realist enough to know that they can only make what will sell; as you said, RFox, Dwarven Forge is a BUSINESS, and business only survives when they can develop a market and profitably feed it.
Well, if we keep it up and preach it up, they will expand; otherwise, DF will go down in the history, along with all the others that didn't survive. WE are the determining factor for Jeff and Stefan.

Doncha HATE it when I climb up in the pulpit? :twisted:

Keep up the good work, Jeff, managing DF to a healthy business!
Stefan, continue the excellent sculptures that give us GREAT gaming scenery!
As long as you do, WE'LL do our job, buying the goodies, and selling the idea of good scenery.

See y'all!

Jim Kratzer
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Jim Kratzer, a/k/a The Mad Yank
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#8621
Board Restructuring 8 Years, 11 Months ago  
Let's get this thread back on topic.

If you want to further discuss Dwarven Forge's viability as a company, feel free to do so by creating another topic in an appropriate forum. However, I will caution EVERYONE involved in the discussion to do so with respect for your fellow posters and Dwarven Forge employees.

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#8622
Board Restructuring 8 Years, 11 Months ago  
Well, this is kinda on-topic, and kinda in reference to the recent discussions.

I think there are two ways to look at these forums. They are either:

A) An open space where anyone who happens upon the DF site can come for a chat.

B) A place for die-hard DF fans to connect with one another.


Now, while (A) sounds really nice and harmless, there is a real possibility that (B) is closer to the truth. When you take the set of people who tend to look around online, and the set of people who pay attention to fantasy terrain, and look at the overlap, it's pretty small. Most people who are not die-hard fans might never come here. They're certainly welcome, but they simply don't show up.

SO -- what does all that mean for the structure of the forum and the talk of DF business practices?

Well, it means that if we accept (B) as true, it is absolutely right to say that we should do something to help DF succeed. I feel like I've done a decent amount -- I link to these forums from various other boards to show people what DF can do, I talk about DF whenever I'm with fans of D&D minis or SW minis, whenever I post on a WOTC or Reaper board. I did an extensive review, with lots of pics, of DF over at terrainosaur.com. I've been a cheerleader for the company since I first heard about it. I think it isn't even a question of what you "should" do -- it's a question of enlightened self-interest. If you want the product, helping the company do well is a good way to ensure more product comes down the line.

The thing is, for anyone who thinks (A) is true -- well, it's less clear that we can insist that people who come to the forums are obligated to do all they can to save DF, and that they should listen to discussions about the business end of things. If someone happens by, and is curious about the product, and wants to hear what people are doing with it -- well, what's the source of their obligation? Maybe they don't particularly care if no more DF ever gets made -- there's already plenty on the market, more than they could afford/use/store. So should THEY feel obligated to join in these chats?


It really seems to come down to what you think the point of the forums is. IF you believe the forums are a place for die-hards to gather, then we all probably should feel responsibility for the success of the company. IF you feel, on the other hand, that the forums are just a place for anyone to come, with varied interests, varied goals, varied concerns, and maybe a lesser love of the product than some of us have -- well, then, that is a different matter.

SO - my point (and I do have one) -- maybe there could be a section of the forums for newbies -- a sort of "welcome to DF" kinda place, where the conversation is a little more casual, where people are allowed to ask about or suggest things that the rest of us have seen a thousand times, to chat from the perspective of someone who isn't necessarily planning on stopping by three times a week and doesn't have as much money/spirit invested in the product.

That way, the die-hards can say "welcome!" to newbies there, but don't have to "hang out" in that space, listening to things they've heard, thoughts from people with no experience or with less interest in some topics....

Just a top-of-my-head idea for a compromise. I think that, as important as everything that has been suggested may be -- it's also important to the continued success of the company that DF fans not seem to the rest of the gaming community as a cultish clique that has closed borders. We don't want to intimidate newbies by seeming too demanding about what is kosher on these forums and what is not, about what our responsibilities as customers are and what they are not.

L
Law
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"In every real man a child is hidden that wants to play."

-- F. Nietzsche
 
#8623
Board Restructuring 8 Years, 11 Months ago  
So to bring this back on topic...
Any chance to find out what is going to be changed? There anything that other than what we have suggested, like things that the Admin or Moderator is thinking about implementing that we haven't thoguht of?

Like which areas of the forums are being condensed or explanded, if any?
Will there be a distinct look/style to the DF pages to set them apart and let you know, "hey this is the DF forums" instead of the the generic subSilver style.
Any Mods going to be implemented?
phpBB2.x has tons of mod options, ranging from things like Spellcheckers, Ignore User options (From a MOD that is a Simple Ignore to a really complex MOD called Ignore Suite), More advanced Who is online MODs, and User Profile options, I even think some mods to deal with the Image size issues, as well as stuff form member ranking, or MODS to allow a person to select or chose to be a member of certain areas to just look at forums or sections of the board of intrest.

Just curious and an attempt to get it back on topic ;)
Ghenghis Ska
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More Sci Fi Please, request a DEAD END for Sci Fi Passages
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Some RPG and mini stats including the Exodus and AAT (along with good source of a Mini scale version of the AAT).
 
#8624
Board Restructuring 8 Years, 11 Months ago  
Also on topic, I like L's idea of a welcome to the DF forums area for those who have no desire beyond the bare surface (kiddies' wading area) and then a deeper part of the pool for those who actually play with the product and thereby have a stake in the continuing success of DF.
I still would like to keep the prohibition in place that you have to be a registered member of the DF forums to post though; prevents that porn spam we suffered from early this year from happening again.
Anything else I would like I already mentioned early in the thread.
RabidFox*
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SF: Starter(3), Passage(2), Alpha(7), Beta(2) someday soon;
Cavern: Cavern, Cavernous Passages, many individual pieces, Cavernous River & Wall and Cavernous Lake someday soon;
Fantasy: Room & Passages, Room, Octagonal Room, Wicked Additions I&II, Adv. Builder, Diagonal Walls Set, Dungeon Accessories, Medieval Furniture, many individual pieces.
 
#8625
Board Restructuring 8 Years, 11 Months ago  
I still would like to keep the prohibition in place that you have to be a registered member of the DF forums to post though; prevents that porn spam we suffered from early this year from happening again.


I forgot about that!

We should absolutely have a place on the forums where we can watch young ducks play with each other!

Or... wait, no. Yes, definitely let's keep the registration.

L
Law
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"In every real man a child is hidden that wants to play."

-- F. Nietzsche
 
#8626
Board Restructuring 8 Years, 11 Months ago  
It is of coarse not my business " or yours really" to go looking for all the answers to someone elses business, at least out of respect that is. KISS.... Wait...... SKA, please let me second a spell checker. Had to do an edit and not yet another post.
whitewind
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