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How is Dark World coming along?
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TOPIC: How is Dark World coming along?
#7359
How is Dark World coming along? 9 Years, 3 Months ago  
I would like to preorder like 3sets but i live in Sweden how does it work for us abroad? usualy i buy through a store.

This set is one of the greatest so far :D I realy like the detail in the walls ad the fact that the floor tiles doesnt have tie connectors. please keap up the good work DF

Edit: And the fact that the tiles are equaly big as in the cavern set is awsome. You have realy listened to us fans and made all the improvment we could which for
hawkmoon
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#7360
How is Dark World coming along? 9 Years, 3 Months ago  
Amazing stuff! Now to save up enough for 2 sets!

Alkatchoff
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#7361
How is Dark World coming along? 9 Years, 3 Months ago  
Waiting to "See"... These In Person But they look Pretty Good... And Of Course Being the First/Next New Thing Released by DF... Well You Know...
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#7362
How is Dark World coming along? 9 Years, 3 Months ago  
Same as room and passage? Glad to hear that it is a full set and not one of the little new boxes. Any info on price yet?
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#7363
How is Dark World coming along? 9 Years, 3 Months ago  
Hey Jeff,

Have you run this new terrain and its new name past any non-gaming parents you know that have children who game?
You might want to - soon.

On a whim I did so here.
Out of ten sets of parents I showed the pic you supplied us with and spoke to, all said they will NOT allow their game-playing children to buy it.
The "feel" of the terrain from the pic turned off 6 out of 10.
The "name" turned them all off.
Granted, all ten couples are active in the three separate faiths they profess to follow, but I think that this may be an issue with secular-focused parents as well.
You might want to change the name at least.
"Dark World" may be a good one to return to.
Just some input from some folks out West.
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SF: Starter(3), Passage(2), Alpha(7), Beta(2) someday soon;
Cavern: Cavern, Cavernous Passages, many individual pieces, Cavernous River & Wall and Cavernous Lake someday soon;
Fantasy: Room & Passages, Room, Octagonal Room, Wicked Additions I&II, Adv. Builder, Diagonal Walls Set, Dungeon Accessories, Medieval Furniture, many individual pieces.
 
#7364
How is Dark World coming along? 9 Years, 3 Months ago  
Hey Jeff,

Have you run this new terrain and its new name past any non-gaming parents you know that have children who game?
You might want to - soon.

On a whim I did so here.

Out of ten sets of parents I showed the pic you supplied us with and spoke to, all said they will NOT allow their game-playing children to buy it.
The "feel" of the terrain from the pic turned off 6 out of 10.
The "name" turned them all off.
Granted, all ten couples are active in the three separate faiths they profess to follow, but I think that this may be an issue with secular-focused parents as well.
You might want to change the name at least.
"Dark World" may be a good one to return to.
Just some input from some folks out West.


You have a walid point in that the name of the set and how the package is illustrated has a big impact on if parents would by it (first impression is always important). That being said it doesnt imply that parents wont buy it if the package and name is right. But then i dont live in america judging by what i have heard americans take their religion seriosly to redicules levels. censouring movies and restrict people on what they are allowed to say on TV and god have mercy on any product showing anything that could be taken as a sign of something ocult. I find it very contradictory that the only country in the world that officialy kills people under 18 for commiting crimes have so high drawn standard on what their children are allowed to see and say. But then to quote a star wars "only the the Sits see the world in black and white" and whit that i am saying that if anything could be taken as evil in the world it is religion which have during centures narrowed peoples perspectives and institulised oppresion.

DF dont be afraid we in europe are far more secularized and apprisate good work whitout religius conviction :P

That being said i believe that cosmetic changes in the name and loyout of the package could be made whitout changing the resin products. Afterall selling the product should be a high priority but dont forget that the product should also apeal to males over 20 which i believe are the biggest consummer group.
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#7365
How is Dark World coming along? 9 Years, 3 Months ago  
Jeff--are you guys going to be at GenCon this year or just Origins?

Do you have an idea of what the retail is going to be on this set and what it will include?

Thanks.

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#7366
How is Dark World coming along? 9 Years, 3 Months ago  
I always love it when Europeans look down their noses at Americans and American values.
It is just so absolutely hilarious for too many reasons to discuss here.
I think at times like this that we should have just let them cook in their own juices in the 20th Century.
Sometimes, Europeans make situations so ridiculous that a deal with Hitler seems to be the lesser of two evils in hindsight.
Then, the American values, that the Europeans enjoy degrading so much, kick in and the idea of making a deal with Hitler returns to being a totally repugnant thought and what we did to save the Europeans' bacon in the 20th Century becomes the right thing to have done once again.
BTW hawkmoon, your welcome, anyway.

Additionally, you need to look around a lot more if you think the U.S.A. is the only country in the world that executes juvenial capital offenders.
Hawkmoon, you are short by at least 22 countries as I recall.

Furthermore, only the Sith would want people to avoid the decisions, commitment and character that are involved in understanding right from wrong.
Those who truly know right from wrong are those who stand for freedom and liberty the strongest.
In other words, the Jedi and their supporters.
Remember the blurring of distinctions and the resulting confusions are tools of the Sith, not the Jedi.

Moreover Hawkmoon, religion through the millenia has raised people from the dust and mire to give them something to look forward to and to give meaning to this life of ours.
Meanwhile, European secularism has given no inspiration to people except to eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die and there is nothing beyond this life, which allegedly only started from an accident and will end in totally nothing.
I can tell you that this last idea really makes life worth living for me.
NOT!!
Then moving on, I remember that my sect teaches tolerance of others' beliefs.
So Hawkmoon, if European secularism is how you want to live your life, that is your choice, and I sincerely hope that you will find true happiness.
I know that me and mine would never in that system of belief.
RabidFox*
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SF: Starter(3), Passage(2), Alpha(7), Beta(2) someday soon;
Cavern: Cavern, Cavernous Passages, many individual pieces, Cavernous River & Wall and Cavernous Lake someday soon;
Fantasy: Room & Passages, Room, Octagonal Room, Wicked Additions I&II, Adv. Builder, Diagonal Walls Set, Dungeon Accessories, Medieval Furniture, many individual pieces.
 
#7367
How is Dark World coming along? 9 Years, 3 Months ago  
On a whim I did so here.
Out of ten sets of parents I showed the pic you supplied us with and spoke to, all said they will NOT allow their game-playing children to buy it.
The "feel" of the terrain from the pic turned off 6 out of 10.
The "name" turned them all off.
Granted, all ten couples are active in the three separate faiths they profess to follow, but I think that this may be an issue with secular-focused parents as well.
You might want to change the name at least.
"Dark World" may be a good one to return to.


I don't really see what you're trying to point out. How old were the kids in question? Are their parents gamers? Would they even consider buying a DF set for their kids? I mean, I did my own little survey among friends with who I game. Here's the results:

Out of 3 (10, 3, hardly matters when the number is so small as to be irrelevant) who saw the pictures -
All 3 liked the look and quality of the sculpt. Enjoyed the more 'gothic' influence compared to the regular DF line brought about by the Gargoyles.
The name brought about memories of games like Diablo II, although Dark World was preferred. None were slightly offended by the name despite religious upbringings.

I mean, why even run a DF product through parents for their opinions? DF is a company for the hardcore gamer. The size of the company, its small but select line of product and high price range place it in a market where parents will usually buy it for themselves (and therefore, as gamers, accept the possibilities of a 'darker' set like D.O.E). Applying the 'test audience' mentality to such a select product is destined for failure. Doesn't mean the product's target demographic and customers won't respond.

Alkatchoff
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#7368
How is Dark World coming along? 9 Years, 3 Months ago  
Discussions about religion, politics and social mores do not belong in this forum.

If you must discuss them, do so in the Non-Gaming Talk forum without insults and sarcasm.

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#7369
How is Dark World coming along? 9 Years, 3 Months ago  
Discussions about religion, politics and social mores do not belong in this forum.

If you must discuss them, do so in the Non-Gaming Talk forum without insults and sarcasm.

Moderator


Acknowledged.

I AM disappointed with the ruling against sarcasm since we are also unable to express forthright feelings concerning such concerns and related matters as well since they could be interpreted, if one wished and many do truly wish to, as insulting.
This just makes me a bit concerned about the honesty of expression and the freedom to do so here.
I will just try to be less honest next time when reacting to insulting posts as I have here in this thread.
That way I will not violate rulings concerning neither sarcastic nor insulting return comments.
I just hope moderator that the axe involved in double-bladed.
RabidFox*
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SF: Starter(3), Passage(2), Alpha(7), Beta(2) someday soon;
Cavern: Cavern, Cavernous Passages, many individual pieces, Cavernous River & Wall and Cavernous Lake someday soon;
Fantasy: Room & Passages, Room, Octagonal Room, Wicked Additions I&II, Adv. Builder, Diagonal Walls Set, Dungeon Accessories, Medieval Furniture, many individual pieces.
 
#7370
How is Dark World coming along? 9 Years, 3 Months ago  
Alkatchoff,

I ran my questions through parents of teens that I know already own Dwarven Forge product.
I got started doing this because one of said teens was over at my house with his parents, and they saw the pic on my computer from the forum.
The very first words out of said teen's mother was, "What is that ugly demonic looking terrain?"
The rest of the conversation went downhill from there.
I had to rescue Jeff and his company's reputation with these parents by informing them that it was only a limited release thing that DF was doing and may very well be just an experiment.
"Good." was the response to that.
The father said, "That if such product was going to be regularly offered by Dwarven Forge, they would have to rethink about continuing purchases of Dwarven Forge product."
Their reaction got me thinking so I got in contact with nine other sets of teen gamers and their parents I know that own Dwarven Forge product including some that either the father or the mother are gamers as well.
It panned out as I have already posted.
If I had the assets, it would be interesting to find out what the response would be from a larger sample.

The point of why this questioning parents is important is that last I heard from GAMA 7.58 purchasers out of 10 purchasers of gaming product are parents buying it for those whom they have responsibility for.
Hard-core gamers do not even make up 2 out of ten purchasers from that very same statistical pool.
GAMA has no motivation to lie to the game companies and shoppes so the statistics, which have been gathered over years of research, have a fairly high reliability quotient.

Why do you think GW keeps changing their games to market to a younger and younger crowd with each revision of W40K and WFB?
Because the parents are the real sources of money in this world.
GW and other gaming companies understand when marketing gaming products, they need to appeal to the prime audience, which is currently 13-14yo and their parents's financial assets.

If DF was only marketing to the hardcore gamer, why then the switch in the last year to less expensive, smaller sets?

Why do you think CCGs have become so popular?

It is because the outlay of cash per unit makes them more palatable to the parent concerned about large expenditures of cash on children whose interests change rather rapidly.
Most of the CCG, CMG and wargaming-related companies have paid attention all this and are modifying their approaches, even GW.

On the other hand, the RPG companies must think they are above such matters with their ever spiraling upward book costs.
I have been in gaming long enough to remember when $18 for a sourcebook was considered extremely expensive.
Now $35 seems to be the desired average which is way too much for how little most of these books provide.

My posting to Jeff was simply a word of caution based on my experience in the industry and the industry's watchdog's own statistics as relayed to myself.
I have every desire to see a healthy Dwarven Forge survive many years down the pike.
Primarily, I have a profound desire to have a complete Science Fiction gaming terrain system out of them over the next few years.
Secondarily, that includes a more complete Cavern system as well.

I am sorry if I was troubling, but in a way my posting was expected to be so.
Next few times, when you are in your LGS, take a look around at the folks doing the buying.
How many of them are actually old enough to generate the financial resources they are spending?
Most of you will see that by a large margin, they are spending their parents/guardians money because they are too young to legally work.
And if they are old enough, are they the parents of the gamers rather than the gamers themselves?
I know that has been the case in the seven states I have lived in during the 30+ years I have been gaming.
During the early part of that 30+ years, I was one of those game rats myself spending daddy's money.
RabidFox*
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SF: Starter(3), Passage(2), Alpha(7), Beta(2) someday soon;
Cavern: Cavern, Cavernous Passages, many individual pieces, Cavernous River & Wall and Cavernous Lake someday soon;
Fantasy: Room & Passages, Room, Octagonal Room, Wicked Additions I&II, Adv. Builder, Diagonal Walls Set, Dungeon Accessories, Medieval Furniture, many individual pieces.
 
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