Welcome, Guest
Please Login or Register.    Lost Password?

Listed Game Tiles price seems high?
(1 viewing) (1) Guest
Go to bottomPage: 1234
TOPIC: Listed Game Tiles price seems high?
#56811
Re:Listed Game Tiles price seems high? 1 Year ago  
Florin wrote:
jimibones83 wrote:
you don't put a commercial on TV advertising a sale, then when everyone gets to yur store tell them that the sale is actually next year but only if enough people purchase products today


No, but you do that with a crowd-funding site like Kickstarter. If DF hadn't done it, they would have had to save up (or borrow) a lot of money in order to pay for development, production, materials, etc. By doing a pre-sale, they got to start right away with their own money.
that was in response to them stating that their primary goal was to lower costs and that the KS would create a line for half the cost of MM, then someone responded that the hope was that if the KS were successful that they could drop the price slightly over time. I was merely illustrating that there is a difference between what was said and what that person proposed was meant. I realize KS is a funding site, but the funding was said to create a cheaper set, not to create a path that would hopefully one day lower costs of sets
jimibones83
Orc
Posts: 258
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
The administrator has disabled public write access.
 
#56818
Re:Listed Game Tiles price seems high? 1 Year ago  
granpappy77 wrote:
You have to consider the fact that having the sets hand painted is a BIG part of the cost of each set, regardless of what they're made of. I would imagine there were nearly no cost savings at all when comparing the resin to dwarvenite sets (maybe a slight difference because the dwarvenite set has fewer pieces). Taking that into account, it makes sense that there wouldn't be much of a cost difference between sets. In my mind the kickstarter's goal (making DF more affordable) was a success- the "unpainted" sets look great on their own and are significantly cheaper.
the issue is that when "our main purpose behind this KS is to make the product more affordable" and "for less than half the cost" were said, there was no further explanation that it specifically applied to orders of multiple unpainted sets. some people interpreted that different than others. I thought it meant that due to a new material, they could offer their new and finished product for half the cost of current finished products but they needed backers to cover the high up front costs of the molds. I was disappointed when i found out this wasnt the case, but now i see it as a simple mistake of wording. I'm happy im being offered unpainted sets at a lower cost
jimibones83
Orc
Posts: 258
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
The administrator has disabled public write access.
 
#56819
Re:Listed Game Tiles price seems high? 1 Year ago  
A few points worth considering:

Resin has gone up pretty consistently and will, as someone else mentioned, continue to do so. The prices will increase with the restock, the ones currently posted are out of date. DF is being kind by allowing the purchase of things still in stock at the current prices, most companies just increase them all once they realize it is necessary and pocket the difference on current inventory. The material for dwarvenite will likely also increase over time, but probably at a significantly lower rate. I will agree the choice of phrasing was a bit vague, but I would not go so far as to say that DF misinformed people.

Also, bulk discounts are nice and probably cannot be offered on resin without a truly prohibitive purchase if at all.
LordDust
Orc
Posts: 431
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Gender: Male Location: Indiana Birthday: 01/22
The administrator has disabled public write access.
My players rue the day I bought "Dragon Mountain". Ever since they give every creature a bit more respect. You never know when the GM will decide that this group is crafty...
 
#56820
Re:Listed Game Tiles price seems high? 1 Year ago  
LordDust wrote:
A few points worth considering:

Resin has gone up pretty consistently and will, as someone else mentioned, continue to do so. The prices will increase with the restock, the ones currently posted are out of date. DF is being kind by allowing the purchase of things still in stock at the current prices, most companies just increase them all once they realize it is necessary and pocket the difference on current inventory. The material for dwarvenite will likely also increase over time, but probably at a significantly lower rate. I will agree the choice of phrasing was a bit vague, but I would not go so far as to say that DF misinformed people.

Also, bulk discounts are nice and probably cannot be offered on resin without a truly prohibitive purchase if at all.
future costs of resin were neither mentioned in the KS video or relevant. It did not claim game times would cost less than FUTURE resin
jimibones83
Orc
Posts: 258
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Last Edit: 2013/10/11 14:12 By jimibones83.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
 
#56822
Re:Listed Game Tiles price seems high? 1 Year ago  
I understand everyone here loves this product and respect the guys running this company, but a forum full of fans over-defending an inaccuracy of the company is going to leave a bad taste in the mouth of some of the new customers at a time when the company has made great efforts to attract them. You may come to realize that there were many people NEW to DF who thought the video promised game tiles at half the cost of resin. Telling them that they never should have thought that is probably not as effective as apologizing for the wording and explaining how good the product is and how much work went into it. This is just my opinion, but I am an enthusiest of psychology, human behavior, and philosophy
jimibones83
Orc
Posts: 258
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
The administrator has disabled public write access.
 
#56823
Re:Listed Game Tiles price seems high? 1 Year ago  
My advice would be to wait for the official pricing.

There is a lot of speculation here. The current price is just copy&pasted from the 1 set KS which (nearly) nobody took as it was the worst possible option.
Thod
Minotaur
Posts: 1079
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Location: Deal, United Kingdom
The administrator has disabled public write access.
 
#56827
Re:Listed Game Tiles price seems high? 1 Year ago  
I am actually astonished by all the wrangling over this...so here is something to consider before folks start saying that I was trying to mislead people.....at the time when we shot the video I really did not have much of an idea what the final cost wood be to make these game tiles, it would depend on many unknown factors like how many folks would order and exactly how much the shipping would cost...we made an educated guesstimate...

I am really really sorry if some folks are actually upset because I have never tried to mislead anyone...for real!

My thinking is that we sold a ton of Game Tiles at an unbelievable price. And now, we are going to offer more Game Tiles also at a great price, but not quite as good as during the Kickstarter where we added all sorts of extra stuff (at considerable expense I might add) it will cost a lot less than what the Resin Sets are going to cost moving forward....we make less profit on Resin now because we are aware that they are too expensive for collectors and so we are narrowing our margins considerably...even though this is the case we will still restock older sets and tie up considerable capital just so everyone old AND new is happy...

I think we are being pretty fair!

Nobody shoot!

I'm just a Gamer with his Tiles....

Btw, don't kill me if anything I said above changes due to unforeseen costs/mishaps/or disasters...I honestly just want everyone to be happy and make an honest living...I will never try to mislead anyone, that is not how I was brought up and I will never run MY company that way!
Stefan
Admin
Posts: 2177
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Gender: Male Location: Brooklyn, NY Birthday: 12/25
Last Edit: 2013/10/11 16:48 By Stefan.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Stefan Pokorny

CEO Dwarven Forge, LLC
 
#56828
Re:Listed Game Tiles price seems high? 1 Year ago  
98% of the people are with you Stefan.

there will always be a percentage of people who think everyone is trying to take advantage of them. its the sad part about pessimists.

Keep doing what you're doing with DF. The rest of us will carry you forward and support our love for gaming.
Legendox
Goblin
Posts: 85
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Last Edit: 2013/10/11 16:59 By Legendox.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
 
#56833
Re:Listed Game Tiles price seems high? 1 Year ago  
Thrilled with the Kickstarter, happy with the prices post Kickstarter. I almost weighed into this thread earlier but hesitated because the "tone" on these forums in the last week or so has been contentious and i didn't want to add fuel to the fire. Only weighing in now to let Stefan & Jeff know that i support what they are doing and feel like they have given me a gift. I appreciate the work that they have done and the fantastic deal that i got on the last KS, i only wish i had bought more (and i should have bought two CoSs!).

The point of a Kickstarter is to use crowd source funding to allow a business to expand into new and unexplored territory without the risk and the necessity for huge upfront investment. We (as backers) gamble a little or a lot of our money on a companies ability to deliver. In the case of DF i was fairly certain they would deliver the product, but i had severe doubts they would make the promised delivery date. They have exceeded my expectations. In exchange for our risking our money, we get a great deal and access to sweet bonus stuff (if you bought a Chamber of Sorrows or a dungeon dressing pack, you made out like a bandit!). The company on the other hand gets to gauge demand and gain practical insight into the cost of manufacture and delivery. They can use this information to help set a fair and equitable price going forward. Which is why i suspect dungeon dressing got split into furniture and doors I'm guessing they ate a bit of money on that, did it graciously and corrected it for future sales.

In the end, DF owes us nothing (other than what we pledged for). They are in business to make money. I don't see them as soulless money grubbing capitalist minions, but if they wanted to be it is their right. We pledged the Kickstarter because we greedily wanted to take advantage of the incredible deal and were willing to delay gratification to do it. Works great for us. They took our money so that they could tool up a new line of production that they could otherwise not afford. Works great for them. At the end of the day (or month in this case) there will be 5,000 people who have a whole bunch of new toys and that is AWESOME! Going forward, Dwarven Forge has a product that is in stock, affordable and very cool. Everyone wins.

Sincerely hope i am not fanning the flames, merely wanted to voice my support,

Arnold

PS While Dwarven Forge is in business to make money and that is their responsibility as business people if you spend enough time trolling these forums you cannot help but get a sense that they do have a higher purpose. When Stefan talks of a renaissance in tabletop gaming, i don't think he is dreaming of his wallet swelling to the bursting point. I really think his joy comes from watching folks get excited to play with the toys he has helped bring into the world. If their goal was to get rich, they could be making some different career choices i am sure ;)

This is their moment. They are delivering hundreds of thousands of Game Tiles on time to folks worldwide. I see this as a time to celebrate, not to complain. I for one will raise a toast in their honor.  Well Done!
kitenerd
Ogre
Posts: 571
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
The administrator has disabled public write access.
 
#56834
Re:Listed Game Tiles price seems high? 1 Year ago  
kitenerd wrote:
Only weighing in now to let Stefan & Jeff know that i support what they are doing and feel like they have given me a gift. I appreciate the work that they have done and the fantastic deal that i got on the last KS


Thanks for saying it so well, me also.



FYI I became a DF customer because of Dwarvenite easy storage and the unpainted lower cost.
kodiakbear
Orc
Posts: 367
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Birthday: 12/11
The administrator has disabled public write access.
 
#56836
Re:Listed Game Tiles price seems high? 1 Year ago  
Most active board members have likely seen that I expressed concern over Resin Set availability. I had/have concerns about most new customers not purchasing Resin Caverns (sticking with Game Tiles) and previous customers not needing it. I didn't want Resin Cavern 'squeezed out' if others were interested in it so I was VERY VOCAL about trying make sure that view wasn't lost (hopefully I was still respectful).

That is just a preface though to establish a bit of identity: new customer, occasional complainer, and not fitting the profile of long-term customer/fan over-defending Dwarven Forge on impulse.

Personal (IMO)"New Customer" evaluation of Dwarven Forge and the handling of the Kickstarter:
Dwarven Forge has managed a (99th Percentile Level) successful Kickstarter!

Honestly I can't understand where people would get the idea that anyone has been mislead. Kickstarter is a way to fund creative works by providing financial backing of their goals. Even if Dwarven Forge signed in blood that their Kickstarter was established to create Game Tiles at 1/4th the cost of resin sets, this is a Kickstarter, and that isn't a contract that must be fulfilled.

One sentence I've seen repeated on Kickstarter when people are upset is that "Kickstarter is *not* a store." It is sort of the first line of defense when backers are upset or angry. Dwarven Forge and their loyal customer base hasn't utilized that phrase. They can't make use of the best public relation line available to Kickstarter projects even if they wanted to because: we are all receiving all our backer rewards, we are all receiving then on time, and we all got extraordinary access/updates while it was all coming together. Smaller companies that have this level of Kickstarter funding so often struggle with all of those successes, that there is a Kickstarter catch-phrase for unsuccessful projects (i.e. rewards come late, reduced, or never). Companies miscalculate cost (it is complex) so significantly that they can not reward backers and 'Kickstarter Bankrupcy' is the only solution.


Reading all of these posts and looking back at the complaints/concerns I've posted, I wish I would have stopped a few posts earlier and waited for a response. When the Dwarven Forge veterans entered the conversation, with what seemed like empty assurances/praise, it seemed dismissive (in fairness consider the odds, this is the Internet). What was unclear to me was that minimal concern wasn't an attempt to dismiss; but, rather an sincere belief based Dwarven Forge earning their trust over many years. Dwarven Forge might not walk on water (unless it is crafted from precious resin), but it seems the emotional investment at Dwarven Forge is significant. Hopefully there are moments to enjoy the success between world-wide shipment of 2 million+ Game Tiles and the concurant customer service nightmare of 1000+ new customers.

(and apology)
Sorry for not being more patient/polite about not getting the survey. Also that entire "99th Percentile" was a bit insulting. 49,000 Projects... 3816% Funded... successful delivery of backer rewards... on schedule... factor in company size....

Definitely better than the 99th percentile!
Sir William
Goblin
Posts: 28
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
The administrator has disabled public write access.
 
#56837
Re:Listed Game Tiles price seems high? 1 Year ago  
Jimi, the cost of resin was already higher when the KS started. I am assuming you were not aware of this at the time. Perhaps they should have made a bigger point of this in the introduction than what they did. I could easily see that argument having weight. Stefan did specifically cite increasing costs for labor and material, but I can see how someone might have misunderstood and thought that was already represented in current prices listed. I can understand that you are upset that things are not what you expected, anyone gets disappointed when that happens.

I don't take issue with you voicing your opinion, but simple text fails to convey many shades of meaning. It is easy to seem more hostile or negative than intended. I disagree with your opinion, but that doesn't mean you are not entitled to it or the feelings spawning it. I became a customer during the kickstarter. I considered dropping my pledge due to financial issues as well. What made me refrain aside from a strong desire to support Stefan's vision, was the statement that the price would likely be a bit higher afterward and that bonus pieces would not be in the set. I literally scrounged odd jobs doing back breaking labor to offset the cost. All kickstarters I have seen end up revising some part of the initial premise or offering, I feel DF was far more transparent than most and I do not feel deceived.

Please understand I do not fault you at all for feeling let-down, I would just appreciate some consideration for my opinion as well.
LordDust
Orc
Posts: 431
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Gender: Male Location: Indiana Birthday: 01/22
The administrator has disabled public write access.
My players rue the day I bought "Dragon Mountain". Ever since they give every creature a bit more respect. You never know when the GM will decide that this group is crafty...
 
Go to topPage: 1234