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Better storage is not wanted. It is needed.
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TOPIC: Better storage is not wanted. It is needed.
#55955
Better storage is not wanted. It is needed. 7 Months, 1 Week ago  
11 Months, 3 Weeks ago Stefan wrote:
I also want to say that we are considering something in the way of transportable cases with custom cut foam that would be great for storage and even better for transportation to cons...

would such a thing be wanted?
This quote from Stefan is from an old thread (COOL PHOTOS OF DF SETS!)& most everyone in that thread replied 'nay,' but to be 100% honest, I came to a completely opposite conclusion. If DF wants its hardcore fans to be able to keep buying its products, then DF needs to help its fans better store those products.

i.e. There are currently 24 DF sets stuffed in my basement.

I don't have the money for some custom cabinetry or shelving system.
I don't have room for a dedicated piece of furniture or drawers.
I don't have a house with a 'game room' or even a rec room.


What I have is several thousand dollars worth of modeling material sitting in their original cardboard boxes, all slowly breaking down. I immediately recycle any box with the slightest hint of mold or mildew. But that then leads to the inevitable problem of the styrofoam breaking down. Tiny white pieces of a carcinogenic petroleum product (aka styrene) everywhere. If it was just a matter of an inconvenient little mess, I could deal. But I have cats, & one day I want kids. I need this packing material out of my house, post haste.

I've tried the plastic storage bins/tubs, but while they are 1,000 times better than dead trees, they don't keep the pieces stable during long transports. Which means the pieces aren't safe. Besides, DF pieces deserve to be kept in an official DF storage system.

So.

At Gen Con 2011 I introduced all the DF guys to a company that laser cuts foam blocks to make miniatures or models or game pieces sit securely inside. Everything is custom designed to fit. Which means the things inside it are safe.

Since Stefan isn't mentioning their name, I won't either, but both companies seemed genuinely interested in working together sometime in the future. And Googling 'gaming' & 'foam' will bring up a few outfits whose products will give you an idea of the possibilities.

As a gamer who not only brings my collection several hundred miles to Indy every August but also wants to take them across town to a weekly game as well as safely store them when I'm not doing either of the above, 'no.'

No, such a thing is not wanted. Such a thing is needed. Truly.

To get to the actual, 'Ask Dwarven Forge;' I'm wanting to know: "Have you guys talked any more with the foam guys?" Thanks for reading & no rush with any response- congrats on the amazingly successful Kickstarter. I really wanted to participate but...I have no room.
MythicParty
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#55957
Re:Better storage is not wanted. It is needed. 7 Months, 1 Week ago  
It sounds like you already have solutions for your particular storage needs. What is keeping you from pursuing them?

A cursory online search yields dozens of companies just waiting to sell stock or custom plastic boxes, which you could also use to contain the styrofoam packaging. You already know a company that makes custom foam packaging, which you could use to store and transport your collection.

We all have limited storage space and limited funds, some more so than others. DF does too. Even if they came up with a simple and inexpensive storage/transport solution, they wouldn't be able to stock it themselves because it would take up huge amounts of space at the fulfillment center -- space they desperately need for MasterMaze and GameTile restocks. They could provide a link to the company that actually makes the proposed S/T cases, but that company has to be willing to either stock the cases, or produce them on demand by individual purchase.
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#55958
Re:Better storage is not wanted. It is needed. 7 Months, 1 Week ago  
Hi, thank you for the response.

1) I haven't been able to find any plastic boxes in my area via the 'Big Tool Stores' that are big enough to be able to fit the styrofoam while still being small enough to fit in the space my DF collection needs to go. Having a custom plastic box made for just this situation sounds very expensive.

2) I need to replace the styrofoam anyway, which is indeed a purpose of the black foam. However, to get the foam company the requisite info, I'd have to measure each & every individual piece for dimensions. Me doing this myself would be incredibly inaccurate & at the very least not utilize the spacing as efficiently as it otherwise would. I COULD ship the foam guys each & every DF set, then have them digitally scan all the pieces properly. They would then mail the set back to me in the new foam. But the postal fees on this process would eat into the $ that I could be otherwise spending on the actual hobby.

3) To clarify, the miniature companies that they create for such as Privateer Press, Flames of War, Malifaux, & Games Workshhop aren't (to my knowledge) storing this foam in their own shipping centers. To do that would require a jump logistically, & as much as styrofoam sucks, it does the job. Rather, the foam guys keep the foam in their own 14,000 square foot warehouse, then ship it to the customer or sell it to them direct at a Con. They both stock as well as custom cut the foam at their end. (In fact, they actually produce their own foam which is one of the reasons why I tried to broker them a partnership with you guys; some of the others being lifetime warranties & a military discount) There is absolutely nothing for DF to store or ship. However I would think given the benefits of switching over to foam, that DF would eventually adopt it for their own transport needs: something that was noticeable at the DF booth at that Gen Con were little white beads all throughout the displays. And in talking to FG they would send DF plenty of gratis samples.

4) So all that is required on DF's end would be for you to send the foam company DF files (CAD?) of the pieces from the sets. They then plug those dimensions into their computer which expertly cuts the material to the exact sizes. Having the measurements gathered this way is not only far more accurate but it's far more efficient as well. Furthermore instead of having customers hunt for their own answer, this gives an official solution. i.e. the DF logo can be added to any bit of foam.

In summary, once FG has DF's info, they are all set to crank out foam trays for any DF set. So you announce the Sewer Set, then link to where DF customers can order foam trays that specifically hold those pieces. Ditto for any other set or any individual piece for that matter. Want a way to easily & securely keep a few dozen lake tiles? Voila.

I spent literally a few hours in the Gen Con Dealer Hall getting them & you guys together into a conversation. I am more than happy to spend a few more to keep that conversation happening. May I tell their CEO to re-start that discussion?
MythicParty
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#55959
Re:Better storage is not wanted. It is needed. 7 Months, 1 Week ago  
Note that the black foam will also decay over time and can leave stick black gunk on everything.

Custom storage cases and foam will be very expensive. Part of the appeal of the Dwarvenite line is the durability which allows for easier transport and storage.

A friend of mine displays mineral crystals. To transport them he makes a silicone gel block "mould" except that rather than using the mould for casting he stores the cast crystal in it.

A cheap solution would be stackable plastic storage boxes. Glue a layer of foam around the walls, floor and lid of the box and then fill with foam packing peanuts. This may not provide sufficient protection against hard knocks but would be cheap.
maximillian
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#55965
Re:Better storage is not wanted. It is needed. 7 Months, 1 Week ago  
DF needs to help its fans better store those products.I would contend that the Dwarvenite Kickstarter *is* the solution. There's not much need for foam if the product is indestructible. And for travelling, this is actually a better solution than awesome foam containers (since it requires less room).
matthew_vincent@yahoo.com
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#55966
Re:Better storage is not wanted. It is needed. 7 Months, 1 Week ago  
What's the minimum order for foam cases? Are there up-front costs or fees involved? Can DF provide the dimensions of the styrofoam packing without violating a contractual obligation with their Chinese producer/shipper? Can DF and the foam case producer create a generic case for any DF set, or would there need to be one case for each and every set? Did the conversation you set up end without a resolution, or is it ongoing, or was it suspended until a future date?

There are a lot of potential issues involved in creating official DF foam-padded cases, to which we don't know the answers, and which are frankly none of our business. DF may or may not revisit cases for transtorage at some point, but Stefan has posted very recently that DF is being extremely careful not to overextend. Which is a really good business decision.


But I think you are making this way too complicated. Measure the styrofoam. Conduct a web search for boxes with similar interior dimensions. Order boxes. Insert styrofoam. Fill interior gaps with thin foam or bubble wrap if necessary.

Or, buy some bubble wrap and wrap every piece individually. Put them in whatever boxes you like.

If you are dead set on foam, the vast majority of DF pieces conform to a few standard sizes. (Beware, passage pieces are wider than standard pieces.) Sort your sets, measure many fewer than you think you need to, and send away for foam. (Or buy some at the Container Store equivalent and cut it yourself.)
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#55967
Re:Better storage is not wanted. It is needed. 7 Months, 1 Week ago  
matthew_vincent@yahoo.com wrote:
DF needs to help its fans better store those products.I would contend that the Dwarvenite Kickstarter *is* the solution. There's not much need for foam if the product is indestructible. And for travelling, this is actually a better solution than awesome foam containers (since it requires less room).


Asking DF's existing customer base to buy all-new sets to replace the DF sets they have already bought is not a solution.

To anything.
jackattack
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#55968
Re:Better storage is not wanted. It is needed. 7 Months, 1 Week ago  
In a former life i was a photographer... most of the hard case manufacturers (pelican etc.) shipped the product with a foam insert that was pre scored in cubes, cut 80% of the way. You pooped out the cubes you needed to create your own custom case. My guess is these foam inserts are available by themselves if you want to create your own custom cases. A quick search reveals they are even available in custom sizes:

www.caseclub.com/pick-and-pluck-foam.htm

Just thinking about it, it seems like custom cases would be prohibitively expensive and would only appeal to those who travel with their toys.

Many of you who have invested heavily in DF resin game enough and are serious enough about gaming to have a dedicated space. For those folks different storage ideas work better (like the awesome flat files discussed in another thread).

For those of us who don't have a dedicated game room (my son leaves for college in 9 years... then his room is MINE!) Dwarvenite is the most practical solution.
kitenerd
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#55971
Re:Better storage is not wanted. It is needed. 7 Months, 1 Week ago  
Mythic Party,

We looked into it, they seemed like fine products, I don't remember the details but we didn't pursue it any further...

I don't think there is anything keeping folks from ordering them on their own without them being official DF products right?
Stefan
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Stefan Pokorny

CEO Dwarven Forge, LLC
 
#55977
Re:Better storage is not wanted. It is needed. 7 Months, 1 Week ago  
Just buy plastic boxes. Use the internet to find something suitable?
Can't be any more expensive even if you include shipping, than buying custom made foam? If jostling them while travelling with them is a problem in the plastic boxes, just wrap them in tissue? Don't see what the fuss is myself.

Dave
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#55980
Re:Better storage is not wanted. It is needed. 7 Months, 1 Week ago  
I had to figure out storage for 12 sets of Sci-fi and 20 sets of fantasy that I traded for that came without boxes. my local costco (a discount boxstore) had 3 packs of plastic storage containers that held about 2 cubic feet of space (maybe a wee bit less)for about $21. it was a good price and not so large that stacking was a problem nowr was carrying them. I had enough room in them to put foam between the layers of DF - they held 3 layers of caverns easily.

I was able to pack 6 large rooms in one box to take to a store for use in a games day RPG. It was packed pretty tight but I was only going about 6 miles. if I were going further I would have split the contents and added more foam protection.

I have 6 of them in use right now and have 3 more for when my dwarvenite tiles arrive. I will probably need another 3 at least but I am going to wait until I need them to buy more. a complete reorg might be required.

I would seriously suggest the larger plastic containers,

criteria:
Stackable
can be carried when full (no need to hurt yourself)
relatively inexpensive - $7 each is a decent price
opaque (so you dont have to open each case in the search for specific tiles)

my storage cost about $100 total so far
galahad
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#55982
Re:Better storage is not wanted. It is needed. 7 Months, 1 Week ago  
I think the best bet is to find a solution that suits your specific needs. Some people travel for their games and would want something more flexible (taking only the pieces they have need for the night's session), while others only play at home and would want something clear and easily organized, while others (like me) would just need a secure spot to protect their pieces because they don't play as often as they would like. I'm not sure you can create a single solution to all of those needs.

Though perhaps some merch other than the Kickstarter tote bag would be nice *cough*tshirts*cough*cough*cough*
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Make something idiot-proof and someone will just turn around and make a better idiot.
 
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