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TOPIC: BE Aware
#39875
Re:BE Aware 3 Years, 11 Months ago  
It's the use of Dwarven Forge's name to sell items as substitutes for Dwarven Forge that sets me off just as much as items that try to exactly copy DF products.

I'm fine with "DF compatible" when the seller actually means the items to supplement DF products. It attracts customers and can potentially enhance DF sales. But too many sellers stray into the realm of "it's DF compatible, so you should buy this instead of DF." That's just sleazy.

Likewise, someone who wants to sell a supplement product should try to create something that is at least a little bit different. If someone has a different idea for Ruins, like jagged edges or scorched stone with claw-marks all over it, more power to them, especially when it is a niche product that DF isn't likely to pursue. But using another company's molds to copy an existing product set as closely as possible is not only sleazy, it is legally actionable. (However, if DF wants to create their own version of a product that soon else has done as a DF-compatible supplement, I think they have that right as the original creators.

I would actually be happy to see another company producing actual product lines that can stand alone and/or mix and match with DF. But if they don't actually produce something at least slightly original, and if they can't advertise it without insulting or marginalizing DF, I don't feel the need to pull any punches.
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#39883
Re:BE Aware 3 Years, 11 Months ago  
Wow I think Thod hit it right on the head, what is the uproar over?
Have you looked at the sets you guys are discussing?

Other than the walls and corners maybe being similar to DF Sets nothing else is. And to that point how else do you make a dungeon room? With walls and corners so I really don't see the fuss. Its not like DF can "corner the market" on walls and corners is it? There are only so many different ways to make a modular dungeon and they have all been done, so its not copying the concept. To that point the passage pieces look nothing like DF pieces, DF pieces have extensions past the corners and the set in question does not, not to mention the height of the walls are shorter. its already been mentioned about the textures and intricate details being totally different, so they are obviously not the same. It looks like they used the HA molds and made the best possible set they could. Not to mention if you look at HA website they gave them step by step instructions how to do it, and if there licensed they can.

You can't jump on BK for making a burger similar to Mcdonalds, they both have meat and a bun. However, I seem to remember about three decades ago a company making dungeon terrain sort of like DF parts but not quite. They did have the original concept though, this companies product was called dungeonworks. Should DF have been called to the carpet for copying the concept? No like I said there is only so many ways to make a modular dungeon and they have all been done.

Another point, they are not claiming that these are DF sets only that they are compatible with DF. The word compatible could apply to almost anything like DF is compatible with D&D or Ral Partha minis are compatible with games-workshop minis!

I re-read the listing several times and never found the part that was insulting or marginalizing towards DF. If anything its going to drive people to DF's website to compare apples to apples,(and DF might sell some more sets in the process). I don't know much about the resin infused die stone and the durability issue. That might require a little more homework on my part, maybe I will buy one of those sets so that I can see for myself. As far as DF I know that the polystone that they use will not break period....

I see them using all the big names like D&D and Mage knight and DF it sounds like they are making a sales pitch and trying to promote their sets. However, they are doing nothing different than anyone else selling on e-bay.

So in the end I think they will stand on their own merits. If what they claim is true then DF might have a little healthy competition. If what they say is not true then they will close up shop within a month.

Such is Capitalism
Grog the Frog Killer
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#39884
Re:BE Aware 3 Years, 11 Months ago  
As to the heated topic that has started here. I have seen some of the Recent comments. If you look back at the history of These postings. The First Be Aware E-bay posts were DF replicas either cast from molds of DF products that claimed they were made of Hydrostoned and were provided unpainted. These Items were cut and cast To EXACT DF standards. That is a line you just dont cross. Its theft of product. That said. The new DF "Like" products that are currently flooding E-bay Are nothing like DF products. They are shorter, they claim outright they are made from Hirsts Molds. They no longer from what I have seen come painted exactly like DF line items.
Now they are on the other hand selling their DF like products in package format that nearly mimics DF style. That .. sadly is nothing more then smart.
I think that DF "like' items are great.. Heck some of my fav items I have that I round out my personal DF sets with are from everything from modle train sets too Lemax halloween colecables. .. Btw i picked up some AWESOME Lemax stuff this year.. too soon be seen in upcoming pics on the fourm posts.
Custom DF products are cool personly. they serve up a nich group of DF colectors that want to add a touch of flair to their collection but like me dont have the artistic skill to do it themselves. Honestly when done well like the ice and lava sets that Thod did years back. WOW It just made me want DF more and if you ask him I imagine he would be the first to say he made what he did because He himslef LOVES DF ! Keeping an Eye out for someone Hockin replica DF casts is one thing. But eye any posts ya see with a grain of salt. Even I had to go back and have someone find the correct post that was the actual replica set I had seen back in the day when I started this Thread because I lost it among REAL DF line products and such.
DM-GHOST
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#39887
Re:BE Aware 3 Years, 11 Months ago  
Ahhh the copyright topic ^^ ... It's the evil of this century.
I launch myself into the casting business.
Here is my first prototype developed last year about exterior floor tiles.
(painted resin for forests, battle ground, around the buildings etc)

I evolved it and added more details, ways & different colors, high herbs etc using several mold techniques.
I also collect/swap with other french DF fans some add-ons that DF didn't bring us those last years :

Here is the prison set (2 years ago Yansolo) :

I prefer this one than the future DF (wicked 3) that unfortunately isn't modular for different other floor sets so I'll do it myself no other way !

The gothic windows (made 2 years ago by Rodenbach) :


Same here, I have the 2 different models better than the future wicked 3 to me. I especially like the sculpted skull on the second model.

The lava set 1, 2, 3, 4 + huge volcano (includes secret room inside, secret walls etc) from Lord Annilhus (3 years ago) :

Also some roofs from Tom we never had to add in our villages.

A nice destroyed door that suits perfectly for the ruin set (yansolo this year) :

The details are amazing...

A useful double stairs for the corridors or the rooms :

Don't remember who made it !

Yep sometimes talented fans are doing things very good you can use as addition to Df line. That's what I like.
However I don't like simple copies of corner/straight walls and floor tiles which aren't innovating and just surfing on the success of the original product. It happened previously as you said.

The new DF "Like" products that are currently flooding E-bay Are nothing like DF products. They are shorter, they claim outright they are made from Hirsts Molds. They no longer from what I have seen come painted exactly like DF line items.
Now they are on the other hand selling their DF like products in package format that nearly mimics DF style. That .. sadly is nothing more then smart.


If you look carefully many of those products on ebay are presented with a similar photo angle to original DF set contains.
They've started to make their stuff in plaster then in resin, now in painted resin with the same scale.
A logical result for people who cannot afford the original products due to the price and the douane fees. We can't blame this but soon or later the tentation to make a perfect copy will comeback again.
HeroQuestFrance
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Cavern & Cavernous passages set / Cavernous Lake & River & Wall set / Advanced Builder set 1 &2 / Room & Passage set / Narrow Passage set & Wicked Addition set 1 & 2 / Deluxe Room set & Octagonal Room set / Trap set 1 & 2 / Fantasy Floor & Starter sets / Den Of Evil set & Room & Wicked Additions sets / Medieval Building & Expansion set / ROTA set 1 & 2 & entrance / Hellscape set / All Accessories
 
#39990
Re:BE Aware 3 Years, 10 Months ago  
Well, the people selling the "D&D Mage Knight Dungeon Terrain Similar Dwarven Forge" have sold 12 sets in the last 15 days.....
Harneloot
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#39991
Re:BE Aware 3 Years, 10 Months ago  
Harnloot

You didn't mention the 11 sets that didn't sell. Having some experience doing e-Bay sales of DF compatible products I can tell you a few 'secrets'.

a) It is difficult to compete with Dwarvenforge on price. Go plaster to save material cost and quality (breakage) is an issue. You also spend ages to paint as it is difficult to undercoat the items without white showing through.

b) It is very, very difficult to compete with DF on quality (some people like YanSolo might manage by adding electrics - but this is laborious)

In my view the best way to make sales is by offering something unique. This seller isn't really doing it. Yes - they sold 12 sets. I would watch and see how many are following. They have Buy-it-now and people are not flocking to their sets.

I remember a seller who was doing DF like stuff with plants, vines etc. Despite offering floors, walls, corners - all also based on DF - this actually offered a little bit more - and therefore they also commanded a higher price as what you see on e-Bay right now. Could be they had an issue as HA resellers - not sure. But they came and went.

I don't expect the current seller to last very long.

Thod
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#39992
Re:BE Aware 3 Years, 10 Months ago  
Dwarven Forge have been the market leader for a while - it's only natural that competitors spring up. I am loyal to DF and will be sticking with them but that's my choice. I go anywhere and everywhere for dungeon accessories and paint them myself. DF's unique selling point is the quality and the fact it comes pre painted to a consistent, good standard.

As someone who has recently set up their own company (non gaming related I hasten to add!) I have been aware that I need to make a decision: Pile em high and sell em cheap (Aldi/Netto model) or go mid range (Asda/Tesco) with reasonable qulaity and mid range prices or go for the high end (Marks and Spencer).

They all cater to different markets and at the end of the day we live in a capitalist society where business' compete in a darwinian fashion. Good luck to DF but I think some of the venting against these guys is a bit harsh.

I completely agree that people who lie and cheat e.g. copy mould DF are scum and do not deserve to be in business. Just not sure I have seen any of this recently on e bay.

My 2 penneth!

Dave
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