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Wicked Additions Redux
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TOPIC: Wicked Additions Redux
#32447
Wicked Additions Redux 5 Years, 2 Months ago  
Excuse me if this was addressed before, but I'm an old Dwarven Forger that has recently (within the last year) gotten back into the hobby. I noticed that with the reissues of the (bowtie-less) Room Set and Narrow Passages Set, you updated each to include more/different pieces. I was wondering if you ever had the same idea for any other sets, particularly the Wicked Additions.

I really like all the pieces in both Wicked Additions sets, but some pieces have more re-purchase value than others. I know that it's not cost effective for you to sell the pieces individually so, for instance, if I wanted to buy more columns right now, I'd have to buy a whole WA set. If I bought a set I wouldn't mind more stairs, but do I really need a fifth demon arch? I'm sure there may be some disagreement with the "usefulness" of each piece, but bear with me for a moment...

In roughly half of each set there are pieces I think you can never have too many of. In particular:
Portcullis (WA)
Stairs (WA)
Pillars (WA)
4"x6" Floor (WA)
Spiral Stairs (WA2)
Pedestals (WA2)
Stairs Down (WA2)
6" Wall (WA2)
6"x6" Floor (WA2)

Some of the other pieces are less useful in quantity for various reasons:
Demon Arch (WA) - More of a unique piece that you probably don't need a several of.
Straight Passage with Bricked Up Wall (WA) - This piece may also fall in the "unique" category, but especially since the Advanced Builder set, it hardly gets any use from me.
Mermaid Fountain (WA2) - Another unique piece.
Dead End (WA2) - Another piece you don't need a bunch of.
Secret Door (WA2) - Now a standard in the ever-popular Room Set. I seem to have more than I ever need.

That leaves us with a couple pieces that I have mixed feelings about:
Curved Corner (WA) - These are cool, but not as useful as diagonal walls, which are now not available.
Curved Passage (WA) - I could go either way with these. They can always be used, but I don't think they're essential in high quantities like some of the other pieces.

Changes to the existing sets may not be feasible for various reasons, but I'd like to throw out a couple suggestions if you are to ever re-market the Wicked Additions sets.

You could rotate out the more unique pieces, like the Mermaid Fountain for instance, replacing them with all new unique pieces. I'm sure this would have to be done over a period over several years, but I think you'd generate collectors interest in the new pieces with the reissues. The older, phased out pieces would retain collector's value and could be reintroduced at a later date if necessary. Newer fans won't know the difference, they'd still be getting their 6" walls and spiral stairs, etc.

Or...

You could put the more unique pieces in their own box (maybe add a few) and put all the "must haves" in another box (or two). Like the Fantasy Floors set, I wouldn't more than a couple of the "unique" sets, but I'd be buying a LOT more WA sets if each piece in it was useful in mass quantities. I think there are a bunch of useful pieces that would be great to add to the WA sets, even ones you've produced before, like the diagonal walls I mentioned. I've heard the idea of making rounded corners with a larger radius. I think that's a great idea. Maybe three sizes. How about adding 45 degree turn hallways? I realize this is opening another whole can of worms which may be against your design philosophy (or whatever), but I think it's not such a bad idea. If you're one day willing to go there, I think a 45 degree turn would be absolutely GREAT for the cavern set. I think it could make the whole thing look that much more organic.

Okay, that's it... finally.

-David
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#32448
Wicked Additions Redux 5 Years, 2 Months ago  
Thanks for the nice and interesting post. We will talk about this in the coming month. Thanks!
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#32449
Wicked Additions Redux 5 Years, 2 Months ago  
Great idea. I know I'd bite on a bowtie-less WA set that had a couple new pieces along with all the really utilitarian pieces.
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#32450
Wicked Additions Redux 5 Years, 2 Months ago  
David,

Great ideas there. The only two possible additional thoughts I would toss in are that a) I like my deadend pieces--though there are analogs from AB I believe, and b) I almost never need more than the two spiral stairs I have.

That said, I love the idea of rotating out unique pieces every so often, and the idea of 45 degree angle corridors (or appropriate joining pieces) is a really excellent concept In fact, really the existing corridors would serve just fine. What are needed are the specialized joiners to adjust the angle (Which I think is what you meant). Further, you would really only need two variations on two pieces (four pieces alltogether). The first type being a piece that connects to straight wall sections (with a left and right variant), the second type of joiner being for corners of rooms (again, with left and right versions).

Heck, those four pieces could be folded into other sets for that matter.

Now I have gone back and forth over the years on the desireability of corridors. Don't get me wrong, I like them and they are useful, they just tend to take up a lot of table space. However, as anyone who has ever used DF to build a layout based on a comercial dungeon module knows, diagonal corridors are the most tedious thing to try and recreate. Mainly because you have to use so many diagonal wall pieces to do it. So, from that perspective alone, I imagine that creating a joining piece that allows existing corridors to be used diagonaly could be a very good way to add functionality to existing pieces.

maj!
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#32451
Wicked Additions Redux 5 Years, 2 Months ago  
As far as I can tell from the photos on the commercial site, all currently available DF products are sans bowties. (Except for a few of the individual pieces still for sale.)

I think a reorganization is fine, as long as nothing gets phased out as a result. A "favorites" set in addition to the existing WA sets would be (IMO) ideal, with all pieces being repackaged as suggested above (a "favorites" and a "unique items" set) a close second.

Personally, I think two to four of most of the "unique items" would be ideal. For example, four bricked-up entrances define a room that isn't on the party's map, and lots of blocked passages following an earthquake or a big spell will incite a bit of panic at the gaming table.

I want a solid dozen or more curved corners to make a clover-shaped room. Lots of curved passages allow us to make a long, winding hallway. However, if we could get a "curves" set that includes curved corners, curved passages, and curved walls (of one or more radii) I think that would let those who love curves buy all they want and let those who don't pass.

Final note: if we get enough diagonal walls, the 45-degree turn takes care of itself. A series of diagonal pieces set facing each other, floor edges together, makes a passageway one square across (diagonally); set facing each other, point to point with standard floor tiles in the gaps, makes a passageway two squares across (diagonally). That does not, however, let us cock a section of our set-up at a forty-five degree angle from the rest of it, which I think would be very cool.
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#32452
Wicked Additions Redux 5 Years, 2 Months ago  
I love the old diagonal pieces and have a bunch of them. I realize you can make passages at a 45 degree angle with them, but with just one 45 degree turning passage, you could use all the regular pieces you already have to make an angled portion of the map. The biggest problem with this (I think) is that the diagonal portions of the map would, most likely, not match up to the other parts of your map. If you wanted your diagonal passages to meet up with other sections of your map, you'd have to use the old diagonal pieces (but it can take a ton of pieces). I hope that all makes sense.

Maj, you're right about the spiral staircases, now that I think about it. They're not needed as often some of the other pieces. I did mean to mention in my original post that a new design of a few of the pieces, like a new spiral stairs, would be great.

I've been meaning to post all this for a while, but after I saw some similar issues being brought up when discussing the up-coming ROA sets, I thought it would be a good time to throw this out there.

I know there are way too many ideas out there for small company like Dwarven Forge to do them all, especially with five different fantasy environments and Sci-Fi to boot, but I've seen a lot of good ideas on this board (doors!). I believe that Dwarven Jeff (Jeff Forge?) said they would only be doing limited edition sets from now on; however, I hope they'll also consider limited edition sets for the original Master Maze, not just for new environments.

-David
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#32453
Wicked Additions Redux 5 Years, 2 Months ago  
Good ideas...yes, Jeff and I will be considering it...
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#32454
Wicked Additions Redux 5 Years, 2 Months ago  
I thought Jeff specified that new environments would be limited edition sets, but mainstay lines (MM, Sci-Fi, Cavern, MBS?) could still see expansion. Did I misunderstand?

I certainly hope not. I want to see the traps set return (bowtieless, of course), and there's room to expand each of those lines at least a little (tons, for two or three of them).
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#32455
Wicked Additions Redux 5 Years, 2 Months ago  
I think the MBS line may be close to finished, IMHO -- there are accessory sets like the Tavern set that would flesh it out, but I don't know how many architectural elements I really feel are needed there. It could just be that there's only a limited amount of drama/adventure that I see taking place in that kind of environment, so I don't see the need for the amount of versatility provided by the regular MM line. Maybe my imagination is just stunted on this point. But if there were only accessory sets for MBS from here on out, I'd probably be fine with that.

I do wish there were more DoE on the horizon, though, and I hope that ROTA gets everything we want by the end. It certainly sounds like some amazingly cool stuff is on the way - it just seems like the creative juices are really flowing, and I'd hate to see a setting with a lot of potential go unfulfilled because of these kinds of limitations.

L
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#32456
Wicked Additions Redux 5 Years, 2 Months ago  
I think the 45 degree idea for both dungeon and cavern is a cool idea. I also still think that a small set of narrow cavernous passages would be a good seller - at the moment, it is really easy to widen coridoors by using floor pieces but you can't really narrow coridoors, except by asking players to 'pretend' that one of the lines of squares does not exist.

Dave
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#32457
Wicked Additions Redux 5 Years, 2 Months ago  
I think the 45 degree idea for both dungeon and cavern is a cool idea. I also still think that a small set of narrow cavernous passages would be a good seller - at the moment, it is really easy to widen coridoors by using floor pieces but you can't really narrow coridoors, except by asking players to 'pretend' that one of the lines of squares does not exist.

Dave

I use the rock formations to narrow the cavernous passages and pedestals for MM passages.

Not to say I wouldn't love narrow cavernous passages. Just when designing it they should make sure it will be wide enough to accommodate a single 25mm mini with a square base. Not that I use square bases, but sometimes I can't fit two 25mm minis on round bases in the regular passages. I guess that's the drawback for their artistry.

45 degree pieces rule, and they are called for in a lot of published dungeons.
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#32458
Wicked Additions Redux 5 Years, 2 Months ago  
What a good idea! Thanks for that. It's so obvious but it just never occurred to me. I would still like a 'proper' single space wide cavern passage though!

Dave
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