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Short passages
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TOPIC: Short passages
#22449
Short passages 7 Years, 8 Months ago  
It woul dbe nice to get some more short passages,
both cavernous and classic.
Will there be sets of them available again ?
Green_knight
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#22450
Short passages 7 Years, 8 Months ago  
how about a new passages set

4 df classic short passages 2 6 inch passages classic df style
4 short cavern passages and 2 6 inch cavern passages
1 spider web filled 6 inch passage classic style
1 spider web filled 6 inch passage cavern style
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#22451
Short passages 7 Years, 8 Months ago  
I strongly prefer passage sets that don't mix different styles.
jackattack
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#22452
Short passages 7 Years, 8 Months ago  
how about a new passages set

4 df classic short passages 2 6 inch passages classic df style
4 short cavern passages and 2 6 inch cavern passages
1 spider web filled 6 inch passage classic style
1 spider web filled 6 inch passage cavern style

To be honest you get 3 x 6 inch passages in the ever-useful Adv Builder Set.

I'd like to see a "Starter" size passage box for classic MM with:-
4 x Short Passage
1 x Y-Shaped Passage
2 x 45 degree Corner Passage
2 x Passage Ends
and maybe 2 x Portcullis
Charliemonster
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#22453
Short passages 7 Years, 8 Months ago  
We are forgetting the often clamored for, but not yet made:

6" passage with doorway/opening in middle of one wall....

Though I do very much like the spiderweb hallway idea ;)
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#22454
Short passages 7 Years, 8 Months ago  
As someone who doesn't use passages much, I'd vote for releasing a passage set WITHOUT any really cool new elements. If passage fans want a set that includes all the basic requirements for neat maze-building, that makes perfect sense to me. But I have more passages than I can use as it is, and I wouldn't want to accumulate more just for the sake of one or two cool pieces.

I can see how something like spiderwebs might make sense in passages, but if that's the case, I'd rather see something like the Traps I set -- a set comprised of passages with a variety of obstacles and threats, all new. That way, at least I'm not getting more of passage elements I already own, and frequently don't use...

I also have a question about the "passage with door" in it idea. How would people incorporate it into the regular dungeon set? I suppose it would have to go right up against other passages, but in that case, what would you do with either end of the passage? That wouldn't go flush against a dungeon piece, and I would imagine that you'd run into difficulties matching the room that goes flush against the middle of the passage with the room that has the more traditional transition at either end. They'd be off at awkward angles from each other.

I guess since I don't use passages as much, I don't see the problem. You can put a moveable doorway in the middle of a passage right now to have a long passage with a door in it -- you'd just have more passage on the other side of the door. Which, because of the design of the passages, is inevitable, even if there WERE a passage piece with a door in it.

I suppose this is my longwinded way of saying that what I'd REALLY like to see would be a set of floors designed to work with the passages by filling in the "gaps" between passages and rooms, so that you COULD incorporate passages into a dungeon and get use out of every square inch of table. That is why I don't use the passages -- it's inefficient use of table space. If I could fill the gaps with floor and make them part of the dungeon, that'd be great.

For that matter, I'd love to see it in SF, too -- since hte outside of the SF passages would make great walls for rooms, but at the moment can never be easily integrated. The only passage design that COULDN'T benefit from this sort of tihng would be the cavernous passages, since they leave uneven, unpredictable footprints.

Just a few random thoughts...

L
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#22455
Short passages 7 Years, 8 Months ago  
I get the point about efficient use of table space, but I don't entirely agree.

For one thing, dungeons don't always make sense from an architectural efficiency standpoint. Sometimes you have passages and rooms that go off into solid rock when they could easily be put elsewhere, with less "construction" involved. Sometimes you want to have a long, straight passageway that characters have to fight their way along, or check every ten feet for traps, or run ahead of a fireball, or whatever. Sometimes rooms are actually laid out as they are for alien or arcane reasons -- by putting four small rooms at the corners of a square a hundred yards across, the wizard creates the largest summoning apparatus ever, through which he will call a huge rust monster to lay waste to the dwarven citadel.

For another, having plenty of passages allows you to set up actual labyrinths. Some GMs might conceal them by sections, some might require rolls to determine which way the party goes at each intersection, and I posted an idea for a way to do random mazes a while ago. Mazes require passages.

Passage sets are great. I agree that each style should have its own set, and "specialty" pieces like cobweb halls and traps and doors in new places might be better as a Passages Wicked Additions set.

My idea for inclusion in a PWA is a pair 45-degree turns. The floor squares at the turn would be an odd shape (having a "spur") to allow the floor tiles to remain in alignment in each branch of the passage -- ALL of the setup beyond the turn would be canted at a angle to the rest of a setup. Using two in conjunction would allow you to put a diagonal hall between two rooms.

This can be done as an actual passage -- two inches of straight hallway, a 45-degree turn, then two more inches of straight hallway -- OR as a small piece having a post at the vertex and a short section of wall on the outside of the turn.
jackattack
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#22456
Short passages 7 Years, 8 Months ago  
Oh, I agree -- if I had more room, I'd LOVE passages. They're far quicker than rooms, and with minimal effort you can put together a really COOL maze.

When I talk about efficient use of space, I'm purely thinking of my own restrictions. I just don't have that much room, so I want to use every inch of it.

But, yeah, one day. One day, when I have a huge table for layouts, I will definitely take out all my passages and put together a REALLY COOL maze somewhere in my dungeon...

L
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"In every real man a child is hidden that wants to play."

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#22457
Short passages 7 Years, 8 Months ago  
The thing to remember about caverns AND 'dungeons' is that they are EXCAVATED - caverns by Mom Nature, and dungeons by EEEVVVILLL Man. As such, they will generally NOT be a solid floor with support columns and load-bearing partitions. Dumgeons will be PASSAGES and ROOMS dug as required for the purposes of the users. So expecting rooms that are neatly arranged, with a 4"-8" thick wall separating them from the corridor outside, just don't make sense. it's much more likely that a dungeon - at least, the kids of dungeons we generally see in D&D-type gaming - will have corridors tunnelled in generally-straight lines, with 90 degree corners or with curves, and rooms dug off to either side. And those room may or may NOT be dug directly and as wide as a wall section, so that there would be only a wall separating the room from the corridor, and that erected after digging is finished.
The exception to that would be the dungeon that is dug as part of a castle's foundation - in essence, the basement, or cellar. Generally speaking, THAT 'dungeon' will be more on the order of the original French donjon, which was basically more of a storage room accessible by a ladder through the ceiling, and almost always part of the lowest floor; the 'castle' or whatever structure we are discussing would have the main floor as the second above-ground level.

I've done a lot of reading on castles and other fortifications as part of designing a multi-level 'castle' for gaming; I eventually built the thing using styrene in three levels, each separating for gaming. I really don't think it was all that great a design or execution (except for the roof on the tallest level), but it works, and it was a great learning tool, and I also learned a lot about castles, etc., from the research part.

See ya!

Jim
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#22458
Short passages 7 Years, 8 Months ago  
That's interesting stuff, and of course incredibly useful for people who like historical accuracy. On the other hand, I've always been willing to push the reality rules a little with my gaming. In general, historical accuracy tends to make mishmosh of most games people would actually like playing in these environments. Plenty has been written about how far we have to stretch history to accommodate the trappings of traditional fantasy RPG's, and while I am not sure how far this extends into wargaming, I'd be surprised if it were any different.

I think the designs of dungeons is a really good example. It'd be really cool to have a great reference book on historical structures -- fortresses, dungeons, palaces, cathedrals -- and the challenge posed in reproducing them as accurately as possible would be a lot of fun. But it's equally fun, for some of us, to design dungeons around story elements or gaming patterns, with rooms arranged to make for a particular kind of gaming session, to allow for a story to unfold a particular way, to allow for the night's game to incorporate the right proportion of exploration, combat, adventure, escape, etc. And of course it can also be fun to try for both, mixing the historically accurate with the gaming-appropriate wherever you can.

L
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"In every real man a child is hidden that wants to play."

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#22459
Short passages 7 Years, 8 Months ago  
Actually the reason I wan't more short passages isn't actually to make passage layouts. Slap a short passage end from the ABS and you have a quick and easy (roughly) 10' square room.

The staple of the old TSR Dungeons!!! :lol:

Seriously though, they are great for cells, small lairs & cupboards.
Charliemonster
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Room & Passage Set, Room Set, Fantasy Floor Set, Wicked Additions 1&2, Advanced Builder Set, Octagonal Room Set, Medieval Building Set x 2, Medieval Furniture Set, Treasure & Magic Items Set and lotsa odds & sods
 
#22460
Short passages 7 Years, 8 Months ago  
That, Mr. Monster, is an excellent idea!!!

I beleive there is short passageway set for sale on e-bay right now!
Harneloot
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Champion of the 6" DOE Hallway!VINDICATION!~!

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