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Pledges for Limited Runs
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TOPIC: Pledges for Limited Runs
#15799
Pledges for Limited Runs 8 Years, 1 Month ago  
That's a good point, and it makes me think the "store credit" idea is probably not going to work, after all.

New customers might feel really annoyed, not to say suspicious, if they see some great product they like, place a pre-order, and then are told the product can't be made and they are going to be forced to buy something else instead -- something that costs about $100.

That can sound awfully close to "bait and switch."

L
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"In every real man a child is hidden that wants to play."

-- F. Nietzsche
 
#15800
Pledges for Limited Runs 8 Years, 1 Month ago  
It may be store credit only is not fair if DF is the one to cancel the product. Refund could be offered if the product is deemed not viable and does not go ahead, or even up to the point DF ha commited to making the product, but if the customer just decides not to go ahead with the purchase then only store credit is offered.
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Dungeons - Rooms & Passages, 1.9 x Dlx Room, Wicked 1 & 2, Traps 1 & 2, Advanced, Orig Narrow, Floors.
Caverns - 2 x Original, Passages, 3x Chasm, River, 3 x Lake, Lake Exp. DoE- Orig, Wicked, Room.
Medieval Building - Orig, Exp. Sci-Fi - Starter, Passages, Alpha, 2 x Beta
Mini's - Skele War Band +, Orc Raid Party ++, Lizardmen Tribe
 
#15801
Pledges for Limited Runs 8 Years, 1 Month ago  
All these comments and suggestions are good ideas; and one of them was the best one of all:

Jeff and Stefan MUST talk it ALL over with their accountants and lawyers, before offering ANYTHING like this.

I'm sure they both appreciate the commentary; they are the kind of guys that recognize it as customers (us) taking a sincere positive, constructive interest in the future of their business, and ultimately THEIR livelihoods, as opposed to a bunch of jerks just out for ourselves.

Jeff, Stefan; take as much of this idea as YOU and the above specialists can do something positive with, and pitch the rest out. We (or at least, I) will not hold any discards against you.
Yeah, we want some of the 'lost' goodies back, but we'd rather have a healthy, viable DF, if we MUST choose one or the other.

See ya!


Jim
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#15802
Pledges for Limited Runs 8 Years, 1 Month ago  
Hello guys........I think that bringing back the Narrow Passage Set can be done eventually but it needs to be the proper time.
It cannot be a time when we are really relying on a "blockbuster seller" so to speak. I don't know If we need to get fancy or complicated and create a pledges program...not because it wouldn't help, or because it isn't a good idea...but because I don't feel we need to in order to succeed right now.
we just have to be smart and do it properly. It is also not just a matter of can we sell x amount. There are timing logistics and container space problems. We can only fit such and such into a container and there comes a time when we have to decide, well, do we put this awesome NEW product in here or do we make room for an older product. Even If we sell them all, either way, we have to decide what our customers would be more happier having...a Lake Set or a Narrow Passage Set? Demand might be so great for the Lake Set (to use as an example) that we might dissapoint lots of people if we clear room for 300 narrow passage sets that still might sell but then many people are unhappy that they now have to wait another 6 months for the Lake Sets because they sold out because there weren't enough in the shipment. We still sell the same and make the same amount of money perhaps, but you, the customers are not quite as happy? Bottom line is, we want happy customers, not just because we are nice guys, but also because happy customers stick around, buy again, and tell their friends that they are happy with us.
Anyway, I'm not saying that we are against using some sort of pledge system in the future, if it seems like a good idea that will make everyone happy than I'm all for it. But so long as we don't need it I would rather not try to make things too complicated or sticky.

here is a question: would anyone be interested in a narrow passage set that was a slightly different style than the stone look? This might make it more popular and less risky overall...or else, I think If we brought it back as is originally was, I might be inclined to add several new pieces to also make it more attractive. What narrow passage type pieces would people want? Ideas anyone?
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#15803
Pledges for Limited Runs 8 Years, 1 Month ago  
I agree. This is a great idea, but it definitely needs to be clear that it is more than just "Man, I'd LOVE one of those!"

My biggest anxiety about the SF line, and the people who have claimed they are waiting to begin buying it until DF does X, is that those same people can then, once X has been done, claim that they STILL won't buy until DF does Y.

In the end, what none of us want to see is DF investing a lot of resources (time, money, energy) into a product based on a misconception of how many people will actually BUY.

L

You right about the possiblity of waiting for "X may turn into waiting for "Y" as an excuse to wait and not buy, except for one thing L.
I constantly and consistently hear from gamers I associate with in several states a very strong desire for a generic Science Fiction furnishings set that works with many games, but most importantly, works directly with the design of the Dwarven Forge Science Fiction Master Maze.
[i]Sorry Jim, but Tony just simply does not do enough items, and they are still too show specific.
A box set in the $80 range with a good number of pieces presenting a variety of generic furnishing items that can be used in multiple rooms is what I keep hearing as the desired SF Master Maze item; that is the most desired SF MM item of a non-floor nature.

I also hear from quite a few persons that they want both the Science Fiction furnishings set and a Science Fiction advanced builder/wicked editions set.
All of the odd room pieces so as to build unique set-ups that both of these fantasy sets provide its genre plus the floor pieces necessary to make the inside portions of the passageways into room walls.

Science Fiction is not a waste of Dwarven Forge resources; it just has not matured yet into an "adult" system - one that has what is needed to truly generate set-ups that captivate the viewer.
I am not sure financially if Dwarven Forge can take as many years with SFMM that they did with fantasy to get there either; science fiction is a much more complicated genre when it comes to architecture and I do not believe Dwarven Forge wants to be in the position with their Science Fiction Master Maze where science fiction gamers get in the habit of saying, "It is a real nice looking terrain system, but they never made enough piece to be even basically useful."
I hear a good number of people already saying that and I have to tell them to wait and see what Dwarven Forge will add next year.
I got called a liar for my efforts in 2005 because Beta kept getting postponed clear into 2006 and I hope that Stefan & Jeff will not make me that in 2007.

************

Back on the pledge topic, I think the pledge system can work, but it has to be harnessed and then enforced.
False pledging can be weeded out over a fairly short period of time with the punishment I wrote earlier in the thread.
I also think that a pledge limit of 3 or 4 sets should also be established so as to avoid the ridiculous pledges of higher amounts that are never followed through on.

waza does have a point about the store credit issue except that there should be no money taken until two things happen:
1) DF has researched out and confirmed that a certain product is logistically possible;
2) The pledges for said product have reach an acceptable minimum number.
By time the project reaches these two mileposts, there should be no reasonable reason for a project not to occur.
Monies taken in should have very little chance of being interpreted as anything criminal and malicious.

On the other side, the customer has then committed to purchase the item(s) and has presented the funds.
In general, most excuses to not follow through on the purchase at this point are terribly trivial and are truly excuses (e.g. cool item just came out that they just have to have the money back to buy).
Dwarven Forge could reserve the right to review petitions for return of funds on a case-by-case basis, but then again there should be a punishment exacted for persons who do this repeatedly.
Manic-depressives in many states are still held to the consequences of their manic behaviors, which commonly do include wild shopping.
I feel that Dwarven Forge should follow the policies concerning such of the state they determine as their HQ state.
Sorry guys, got to pick NY or IL that way.

The pledge system may be the only way to get archived items back into limited-run production.
Granted that is not very many items to-date, but over time, this may become the only very serious method to return various items back to availability.
RabidFox*
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SF: Starter(3), Passage(2), Alpha(7), Beta(2) someday soon;
Cavern: Cavern, Cavernous Passages, many individual pieces, Cavernous River & Wall and Cavernous Lake someday soon;
Fantasy: Room & Passages, Room, Octagonal Room, Wicked Additions I&II, Adv. Builder, Diagonal Walls Set, Dungeon Accessories, Medieval Furniture, many individual pieces.
 
#15804
Pledges for Limited Runs 8 Years, 1 Month ago  
... .

here is a question: would anyone be interested in a narrow passage set that was a slightly different style than the stone look? This might make it more popular and less risky overall...or else, I think If we brought it back as is originally was, I might be inclined to add several new pieces to also make it more attractive. What narrow passage type pieces would people want? Ideas anyone?

[u]Sci-Fi Narrows!!![/u]
This would be fabulous for you to do and a big surprise to many I know.
With the apparant "failure" of the fantasy narrows, the good number of science fiction gamers I know that want something like that set for Sci-Fi do not expect you to do it.

I am not saying that Fantasy Narrows was a failure, but since Dwarven Forge no longer has it on its active duty roster, gamers on the Street/Shoppe level think that Dwarven Forge thinks the Fantasy Narrows was a failure so it must be since it is OOP.
Granted those gamers who use eBay and other sites like that understand a bit better that that may not be gospel truth because of the outrageous sums that some Fantasy Narrows product goes for, but these Sci-Fi gamers are not holding their breath for their chance at Narrows.
I honestly think though, because of the nature of science fiction, that narrows will be more needed and desired with Science Fiction Master Maze than they were with Fantasy.
Just ask Jim; he can wax on for a while on their many uses, and the rest of us can chime in on anything he misses.

Please seriously consider Science Fiction Master Maze Narrows.
RabidFox*
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SF: Starter(3), Passage(2), Alpha(7), Beta(2) someday soon;
Cavern: Cavern, Cavernous Passages, many individual pieces, Cavernous River & Wall and Cavernous Lake someday soon;
Fantasy: Room & Passages, Room, Octagonal Room, Wicked Additions I&II, Adv. Builder, Diagonal Walls Set, Dungeon Accessories, Medieval Furniture, many individual pieces.
 
#15805
Pledges for Limited Runs 8 Years, 1 Month ago  
Well, about Stefan's question I can say, that I would probably buy one or two more of the old narrow passage set's, if they would be available again sometime. But if there would be something like a Narrow Passages V2.0 it would become even more interesting.

And well, despite I am no SciFi user so far, RabidFox* request for a SciFi narrow passage set might also be worth to be considered by DF.
LoneStarr
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#15806
Pledges for Limited Runs 8 Years, 1 Month ago  
Sci-Fi Narrows! YEAH!!!!!
Fantasy Narrows returns! YEAH!!!!

I know it won't be any time soon for either one, but just the POSSIBILITY, Oh, Yeah!

Lets see, now; Cavernous Passages (they qualify as narrows); Fantasy Narrow Passages (and the possibility of NP v.2!); Sci-Fi Narrows Passages...AWRIGHT!!! Full-coverage on Narrow Passages! YES!!

RabidFox*, are you dancing around the computer room yet?

See ya!

Jim
jkratzer
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Jim Kratzer, a/k/a The Mad Yank
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#15807
Pledges for Limited Runs 8 Years, 1 Month ago  
Limited space in the overseas shipping container never even crossed my mind...

New thread in the Fantasy forum (Sci-Fi advocates welcome!) to talk about different styles for Narrow Passages, and/or new pieces to add to Classic Narrow Passages.
jackattack
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#15808
Pledges for Limited Runs 8 Years, 1 Month ago  
Different walls on narrow passages?


Three words:

AW...HELL...YEAH!

In fact, consider that support for alternate walls of all kinds. I'd love to see room sets with wooden walls, brick walls, plaster walls, hewn stone walls, and so on, all with the standard fantasy flagstone floors, so everything would work seamlessly together!
Yukon Cornelius
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Visit my: Website
 
#15809
Pledges for Limited Runs 8 Years, 1 Month ago  
I know I can't speak for everyone, but I was a fan of the Narrow Passages Set from day one. That's why I picked up five sets. Few things scare your players more than being forced into single file.

I think I'd be interested in Narrow Passages with a different theme, especially if they worked with both Den of Evil and standard Master Maze. Or perhaps a Cavernous Narrow Passages set? That, I think, could be the way to go.

If you wish to add more pieces to the current style of Narrow Passages, curved passage pieces would be nice. Plus cave-in sections, and maybe Narrow Passages Trap pieces. Going single file into a section with spinning blades just has to be every player's nightmare.

How about a narrow water section to pass? Or a narrow section with a chasm? The last could be depicted via the paint job on the floor, giving the impression of dropping down into near-limitless depths.

I think a narrow portcullis would be welcome. And perhaps a narrow passage with a secret door or swinging wall.

I'm sure the rest of the guys on the forum will come up with many more imaginative ideas.
Kradlo
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Kradlo
Make Mine Master Maze!
 
#15810
Pledges for Limited Runs 8 Years, 1 Month ago  
I was one of those that thought I would never need a narrow passages set.

I finally picked one up and now I use it in nearly every set-up I create! Definately worth it. When I first saw it, I just didn't see the point. After I played with it the options for multi-levels and cool small columned rooms and alcoves in a long hallway became a must!
DaggerdaleDM
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