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Dunjeon : ok /Cavern : ok / Den set of Evil : ok / Medieval : ok AIR ?
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TOPIC: Dunjeon : ok /Cavern : ok / Den set of Evil : ok / Medieval : ok AIR ?
#19952
Dunjeon : ok /Cavern : ok / Den set of Evil : ok / Medieval : ok AIR ? 8 Years, 1 Month ago  
Great idea - CityScape!

Dave
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#19953
Dunjeon : ok /Cavern : ok / Den set of Evil : ok / Medieval : ok AIR ? 8 Years, 1 Month ago  
All right already! You've convinced me (but finish the OTHER SETS FIRST!).

See ya!

Jim
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#19954
Dunjeon : ok /Cavern : ok / Den set of Evil : ok / Medieval : ok AIR ? 8 Years, 1 Month ago  
With all due respect, I remain unconvinced.

IMHO I belive that attempting to build entire landscapes with quality (but costly) DF resin would be far too cost-prohibitive.

In order to cover only a 1x1 square foot of table space you will need nine, 4x4 tiles.

Although buildings (if sunk) and existing water tiles would limit the number of terrain (street) tiles needed to completely cover a table at any one time, the need for variable designs (stone vs dirt paths) and a variety of unique setting pieces would effectively double what would be needed for any one type of setting.

That IMHO, would make this set far too expensive to buy -and I just finished ordering 39 additional Lake pieces. (I quickly ordered 15 more after I got my first 24, once I saw the actual area coverage).

My point is that lakes involve purchasing only one type of tile, whereas city/town tiles would require at least two types (stone and dirt) and wilderness tiles would require countless variations. These variations factored in with the formentioned coverage requirements indicate to me that high-quality resin (DF) is IMHO not the most appropriate/best material to use for such terrain.

I'm sure if DF were to create these they would be of excellent quality, but would be required in such large quantities that they would be out of the reach of many, if not most.
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#19955
Dunjeon : ok /Cavern : ok / Den set of Evil : ok / Medieval : ok AIR ? 8 Years, 1 Month ago  
Well said. Add to the number of "city" variations the transitions between the different paths (where a stone street becomes a dirt alley, or where a paved surface becomes a country road). Furthermore, there are a lot of different paving options, including slate, cobblestones, brick, and none -- some builders are going to want the option of using them all, to differentiate between different locations, populations, or economic strata. In addition, if you want streets that are at any angle other than 90*, you will need specialty pieces. Not just for the roads, but for the building(s) next to them.

If you check the dollhouse aisle in a large craft store (or a specialty store), you should find rubber sheets that simulate brick and cobblestone, usually in a scale that isn't TOO far off. Hallmark and seasonal stores often have similar materials to go with their "holiday village" sets. And "S" or "HO" scale train materials are a reliable standby for terrain making. They are readily available, easy to work with, and (currently) cheaper (and lighter) than polyresin castings.

While I do not subscribe to the "oh no, if they make one more new line they'll go out of business" school, I do think that there is a LOT left to do in the existing lines, and therefor plenty of creative opportunities left for DF to explore in the structural realm, without breaking into public works and/or civil engineering.

I'm not saying that DF can't do it, nor am I saying that they shouldn't ever do it, but my preferences differ. I still want to see a "mine" expansion for Caverns, and big smooth block stonework (and some other projects that I won't go into here) long before I want to see DF produce roads, streets, and other "cityscape" pieces. That is my opinion.
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#19956
Dunjeon : ok /Cavern : ok / Den set of Evil : ok / Medieval : ok AIR ? 8 Years, 1 Month ago  
It is strange to me to hear that people who play with the highly detailed DF sets for underground/inside encounters argue against an outdoor set because you can just use a sheet of graph paper with some circles that say "tree" and "bog" on them. I can make a cavern and dungeon on a sheet of graph paper too - but I don't want to. I am not saying yes or no to the idea, but I am sure that if the same thought that was put into existing MM lines was put into an outdoor set it would be incredible and worth playing on.

Gavynn
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I'm developing a medieval strategy board game. You can read the development blog here!
 
#19957
Dunjeon : ok /Cavern : ok / Den set of Evil : ok / Medieval : ok AIR ? 8 Years, 1 Month ago  
I don't know about how expensive/extensive it would have to be -- after all, most of the current sets have people calling for expansions, how complete would the first foray into city sets need to be?

I posted pics of a little township I made, and for the plazas and streets I just used regular floor pieces -- I didn't need that many, once all the buildings were in place. Maybe people are forgetting that? With MBS and regular dungeon sets you can make the buildings that will eat up 70% of your table. The city set would just be to fill in the gaps between the buildings so you don't have bare table there.

I'm perfectly content to use the dungeon sets for now, especially since the two large floor pieces already make for neat plazas, but while we're speculating in the realm of "one day...." I still maintain that some really great city-specific stuff would be cool. Cobblestones, sewer grates, gaslights, pub signs, etc.

I agree that there's a lot of stuff to be done FIRST, but I do think there would be a market for this. Certainly I think there are forum folks who'd want a few sets, but I also think some of the people drawn in by the appeal of MBS would also like a set like this. It's really of an entirely different nature than a wilderness set, much harder to do on your own and definitely not just trees and grass.

L
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#19958
Dunjeon : ok /Cavern : ok / Den set of Evil : ok / Medieval : ok AIR ? 8 Years, 1 Month ago  
I would really like to see a "run-down" version of the MBS. For example: Dirty walls, cracks in the floor, spider webs, small piles of junk, one wall with a hole in it with bricks laying around everywhere, dead bodies, blood stains. Like a Horror version of the MBS. That would be exactly what I am looking for, because I like horror D&D/RPG's. Sometimes I think that the current MBS is a bit too "clean" for all the adventure scenarios that I can imagine. Think of the possibilities for Ravenloft adventures that a "dirty" MBS would have. Please consider such a set Stefan. To sum it up, an MBS set with a darker image. Please....
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#19959
Dunjeon : ok /Cavern : ok / Den set of Evil : ok / Medieval : ok AIR ? 8 Years, 1 Month ago  
GA, I think people are actually saying that it is already very simple to make very detailed outdoor setups, not that you should put MBS on a sheet of paper with marker squiggles on it. And it is true -- outdoor terrain is already a major hobby industry thanks to model train buffs AND wargamers, and it is readily available in various stages of completion/assembly.

Dungeon'r, some of the things you are describing are easy to mod (dirty walls, cracks in the floor, blood stains), while some are easily done as accessories (dead bodies, piles of junk) that are available from other companies. (But authentic DF does beat anything else, hands-down.) Personally, though, I've always thought that "ruined" terrain outweighs "clean" terrain far too heavily in the market. Still, if you have no objection, I might turn your suggestion into a "Rooms" thread -- suggest a few pieces to enhance the existing line, rather than an entire new line.
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#19960
Dunjeon : ok /Cavern : ok / Den set of Evil : ok / Medieval : ok AIR ? 8 Years, 1 Month ago  
I would really like to see a "run-down" version of the MBS. For example: Dirty walls, cracks in the floor, spider webs, small piles of junk, one wall with a hole in it with bricks laying around everywhere, dead bodies, blood stains. Like a Horror version of the MBS. That would be exactly what I am looking for, because I like horror D&D/RPG's. Sometimes I think that the current MBS is a bit too "clean" for all the adventure scenarios that I can imagine. Think of the possibilities for Ravenloft adventures that a "dirty" MBS would have. Please consider such a set Stefan. To sum it up, an MBS set with a darker image. Please....
There will most likely be some of the things your mentioning here in the 4th MBS set...
Stefan
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#19961
Dunjeon : ok /Cavern : ok / Den set of Evil : ok / Medieval : ok AIR ? 8 Years, 1 Month ago  
Wow!! Can you say it with me, everyone?...

...a 4th MBS Set!!

NICE!
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#19962
Dunjeon : ok /Cavern : ok / Den set of Evil : ok / Medieval : ok AIR ? 8 Years, 1 Month ago  
I posted pics of a little township I made, and for the plazas and streets I just used regular floor pieces -- I didn't need that many, once all the buildings were in place. Maybe people are forgetting that? With MBS and regular dungeon sets you can make the buildings that will eat up 70% of your table. The city set would just be to fill in the gaps between the buildings so you don't have bare table there.
L,

I still remember the Venice posts well, as I thought they were amazing!

In fact, I remembered and considered the "Venice" type of setup when I made my previous post on this topic.

That being said your calculation of 70% sounds spot-on for a compact, urban environment like Venice. The only problem is what happens when someone wants to create an encounter in a town setting that isn't in an area of such high-density development? At this point the building coverage would dip considerably (say, 50-60%).
If other terrain types are considered as well, you will finally get to rural and wilderness encounters with between 0 and 10% of building coverage on your table.

Perhaps a "city" terrain itself set would work for some, but other types would require vastly greater coverage.
That being said, how well would this city terrain transition if this were the only DF terrain type available?

Personally I prefer the idea of using a somewhat flat cobblestone terrain mat that I can cover and transition easily to another terrain type that also leaves me the option of placing my buildings exactly where I want them, (and not in a grid-like fashion).

Add in the costs, the fact that DF-type terrain used in the above mentioned fashion -(whether on purpose or for economy sake) shortens the MBS buildings noticably. To me, with all of these factors considered, IMHO its just not appealing as a terrain option -at all.

I have no doubt you could do some awesome things with such a set, so I'll leave it as...

"To each their own".
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#19963
Dunjeon : ok /Cavern : ok / Den set of Evil : ok / Medieval : ok AIR ? 8 Years, 1 Month ago  
Yeah, I do agree that "to each their own" is the best approach. And for now, DF is so small that they should probably focus on the sets that have broadest appeal and sell the most to as many types of fan as possible.

But ... you know. .. ONE day.... I'd love to see a city accessory set. Just something small and basic... if you get 10 sets, like IO and I are likely to do..., you could make a huge city... Other fans might just get one for a smaller setup, or just a hint of a different kind of layout.

That's the thing about DF - it's just so flexible, you can do almost ANYTHING with it, and Stefan's stuff is so amazing to look at, it's hard to keep yourself from imagining more and more and more and more....!

L
who can't wait for the MBS expansion set....!!!!!
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