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Got the Proof Set of the Cavernous Chasm Expansion
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TOPIC: Got the Proof Set of the Cavernous Chasm Expansion
#27275
Got the Proof Set of the Cavernous Chasm Expansion 6 Years, 10 Months ago  
I got my proof set today and decided that I'd post a few thoughts. Again, thanks to Dwarven Forge for holding the contest and thanks for making such great products.

Let me say right up front ... I am not an unbiased reviewer. I am a total Master Maze addict who owns many thousands of dollars worth of product. This set does nothing to dissuade me. It is simply beautiful. The large stalagmite cluster, glistening with water, is probably the single most beautiful piece that Dwarven Forge has ever produced. Perhaps, the magma fountain gives it competition. Perhaps.

This beautiful centerpiece is combined with solidly play-oriented pieces that make for a great set. Yawning pits, murderous deadfalls, towering subterranean faerie lands and Khazad-Dum-esque spans are all possible. It's packed in the magnificent custom cut styrofoam that ensures your set can travel.

This set fires the imagination! I am burning to break out some other sets and really push three dimensional cavern set-ups to their edge. Perhaps I will post some of these results here to the website, insane holiday schedule permitting.

But there is some bad. This is a small set. With great artistry comes great price per piece. I also really think to make the impressive setups I really want to do, I need to wait for February when my three other pre-ordered Chasm sets arrive. Combined, I know they can do awesome things. But the cost of this set ($99 each during pre-order, $109 retail) plus the cost of at least one Caverns set (and two or three would be better!), it adds up quick. That's a lot of cash down to get any real play value. I'm an addict. An addict pays what's required to get his fix. But I can see how non-addicts would run screaming from this sort of investment.

Which leads me to my second point, this set is not novice friendly. It shouldn't be the first master maze set you buy or the second or third either. It is truly an expansion set. By itself, this set is almost useless. So, Dwarven Forge is selling an expansion set to an out of stock base set. I see how this could frustrate beginners.

Further, this set takes a little imagination to use and since Dwarven Forge has not updated their included documentation in well ... forever, this box comes with no help. Yes, you can come to the web site and see a few example setups, but it would be nice if that were included in the box. Jeff, Stefan ... I love your work but it is beyond time to include something besides that same booklet in your boxes. I can imagine a novice to Master Maze buying this product, opening it and just boggling. Confused, they open the book and find instructions for pieces that are nowhere to be found in this box!

To summarize the Chasm set is magnificent. For we Master Maze junkies, it is perfect! For anyone else, for novices, I recommend picking up a Room and Passage set or a Cavern Set first. Of course, both of those sets are out of stock.

So ... good luck.

Gary
gdmcbride
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#27276
Got the Proof Set of the Cavernous Chasm Expansion 6 Years, 10 Months ago  
At 22 pieces, the per-piece cost is $4.95 when paying full price for the set. That's more than competetive in the miniatures market.

This set is not meant to be a "first purchase", it is meant to supplement prior Cavernous sets. Since one can only purchase from the website (not in a hobby shop) and can see pictures of every single piece by itself, it is unlikely that anyone is going to pick this up thinking it has more pieces or different pieces than it does.

I agree that set-specific literature would be nice, or even a card with a URL with pictures and diagrams.
jackattack
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#27277
Got the Proof Set of the Cavernous Chasm Expansion 6 Years, 10 Months ago  
Wow, congrats!

I have to say, I know what you mean about "novice-friendly." When I first saw the set pics, the early ones, I thought "neat. cute." and that was about it. It wasn't until I saw the more elaborate pics in the newsletter that I realized what could be done with these guys. Really made a difference.

I'd love literature for these -- that could be a great idea in general for many recent DF sets -- cavernous lake and expansion too!

L
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"In every real man a child is hidden that wants to play."

-- F. Nietzsche
 
#27278
Got the Proof Set of the Cavernous Chasm Expansion 6 Years, 10 Months ago  
I still think a thin but glossy "full colour catalogue" approach with a double page on each of the ranges is needed.
Publishing costs have come right down in Europe recently, so I am not sure about the economics of this state side. One might be placed free in all "big orders" - these will be passed around gaming groups and may encourage more purchases - also possibly pulling in the uninitiated (Df Crack Heads)

Just an old idea I though I would resurrect that I feel is relevant to the last two posts on this thread.

Dave
David Wasilewski
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#27279
Got the Proof Set of the Cavernous Chasm Expansion 6 Years, 10 Months ago  
I think the best way to do a cataologue is largely forgo print and do a PDF you can download off the webpage it can be as colorfull as you want....
And being a PDF you can update it much easier with new items since DF is putting something out about every quarter it seems, a nice design/build guid should still be printed and a PDF but not solely a PDF
Ghenghis Ska
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More Sci Fi Please, request a DEAD END for Sci Fi Passages
Classes of the Old Republic
Some RPG and mini stats including the Exodus and AAT (along with good source of a Mini scale version of the AAT).
 
#27280
Got the Proof Set of the Cavernous Chasm Expansion 6 Years, 10 Months ago  
I got my proof set today and decided that I'd post a few thoughts. Again, thanks to Dwarven Forge for holding the contest and thanks for making such great products.

Let me say right up front ... I am not an unbiased reviewer. I am a total Master Maze addict who owns many thousands of dollars worth of product. This set does nothing to dissuade me. It is simply beautiful. The large stalagmite cluster, glistening with water, is probably the single most beautiful piece that Dwarven Forge has ever produced. Perhaps, the magma fountain gives it competition. Perhaps.

This beautiful centerpiece is combined with solidly play-oriented pieces that make for a great set. Yawning pits, murderous deadfalls, towering subterranean faerie lands and Khazad-Dum-esque spans are all possible. It's packed in the magnificent custom cut styrofoam that ensures your set can travel.

This set fires the imagination! I am burning to break out some other sets and really push three dimensional cavern set-ups to their edge. Perhaps I will post some of these results here to the website, insane holiday schedule permitting.

But there is some bad. This is a small set. With great artistry comes great price per piece. I also really think to make the impressive setups I really want to do, I need to wait for February when my three other pre-ordered Chasm sets arrive. Combined, I know they can do awesome things. But the cost of this set ($99 each during pre-order, $109 retail) plus the cost of at least one Caverns set (and two or three would be better!), it adds up quick. That's a lot of cash down to get any real play value. I'm an addict. An addict pays what's required to get his fix. But I can see how non-addicts would run screaming from this sort of investment.

Which leads me to my second point, this set is not novice friendly. It shouldn't be the first master maze set you buy or the second or third either. It is truly an expansion set. By itself, this set is almost useless. So, Dwarven Forge is selling an expansion set to an out of stock base set. I see how this could frustrate beginners.

Further, this set takes a little imagination to use and since Dwarven Forge has not updated their included documentation in well ... forever, this box comes with no help. Yes, you can come to the web site and see a few example setups, but it would be nice if that were included in the box. Jeff, Stefan ... I love your work but it is beyond time to include something besides that same booklet in your boxes. I can imagine a novice to Master Maze buying this product, opening it and just boggling. Confused, they open the book and find instructions for pieces that are nowhere to be found in this box!

To summarize the Chasm set is magnificent. For we Master Maze junkies, it is perfect! For anyone else, for novices, I recommend picking up a Room and Passage set or a Cavern Set first. Of course, both of those sets are out of stock.

So ... good luck.

Gary

Thanks for the great review Gary. I'm glad you liked my "Stalagmite" I put more care into that than any other cavern piece ever, and wouldn't have been possible without my new purchase of "reading" glasses....yes, getting old...
Your right, this Set is not for beginners...and your also right that it would be nice to include some instructions to go along......I've thought about that sometimes, that some rudimentary instructions be included, and that we should update our literature...fact is that between Jeff and I, we have little spare time between production to contemplate an overhaul...we are usually just barely making the production time and more often than not MISSING our launch dates...so that should explain how much time we have left for other stuff...But you know, I also wonder if it's actually more fun to discover all the kool things one can do with new pieces by oneself. I've always thought that part of the appeal was in discovering new ways to build and design...having the forum section is a sort of nice compromise in that we can all "cheat" a little by seeing what others have come up with and also feel proud when we come up with something new and then share...Of course, Jeff and I posted some of our initial ideas of how to use the Chasm Set, but it's certain that many, many other kool uses will be found...just look at the recent cavern contest and all the ultra kool set-ups that uncovered....I'm wondering if perhaps a section on the website for newbies might be one way to help people new to our hobby, also useful to those confused spouses that want to buy the ultimate gift for their loved ones...
Stefan
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#27281
Got the Proof Set of the Cavernous Chasm Expansion 6 Years, 10 Months ago  
I'm wondering if perhaps a section on the website for newbies might be one way to help people new to our hobby, also useful to those confused spouses that want to buy the ultimate gift for their loved ones...
Stefan, you may have hit upon the FASTEST way to save DF (and DF-Heads!) from an uncertain future!

A Novice Users / Users' Spouses' Section of the Forums, or of the Web Page itself, could well be the Rescue of Dwarven Forge! In Fact, I suggest you urge (read: DRAFT - with a NAIL GUN to secure him!) Doug Martin or one of his henchmen to start scouring the forum for suggested setups, and add a section for JUST THAT - SUGGESTED SETUPS of VARYING LEVELS - Beginner, Intermediate, and Advanced DF Users - and select the best ones to add to a page ON THE DF Web Site!
YES, it's going to be a LOT of work;
YES, it's going to be VERY subjective, even if you, Jeff, and Doug BEG and are successful in getting US to do the judging of what to add to the Web Site page from the Forum;
YES, there will be growling, grumbling, and whining - from 'winners' and 'losers', even though no-one should actually win or lose in this deal - about whose designs get posted;

BUT: IF DF gets more fans, and more customers, from this "little" project, then it will be well worth it. If I were even a LITTLE BIT qualified to do this job, I'D VOLUNTEER to do it for you guys, JUST to further the product and the company - because I want to see DF succeed! But, while I think (!) I can judge what makes a good setup design, as a Web designer, I'm a great NASCAR driver (little non sequitur there, just for example). I wish I COULD do the Web part - there's GOLD in them thar servers! If Doug can't take on another design, find someone else who CAN - it's worth it! BUt don't get rid of Doug to do it! He's been a good troop, too!

Think about this idea SERIOUSLY, guys. Meanwhile, Happy Holidays to EVERYONE at the DF Family, including ALL spouses and kids!

Jim and Sandy Kratzer
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Jim Kratzer, a/k/a The Mad Yank
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