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Cavernous Lake Expansion Set and Tavern Set FEEDBACK!
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TOPIC: Cavernous Lake Expansion Set and Tavern Set FEEDBACK!
#26496
Cavernous Lake Expansion Set and Tavern Set FEEDBACK! 6 Years, 9 Months ago  
Monte,

I know what you mean -- I think the problem is that matching out what people want to do with their sets is very difficult. The CLE seems to have been designed for use by people with 2-3 Lake sets and 1-2 river sets. I think the approach taken was designed to do two things:

1. Give people with 2-3 lake sets maximum use of their many pieces. Since using lake sets to make non-oval lakes requires extra pieces, people with several lake sets need a LOT of those extra pieces. I think Stefan wanted to make it possible for those kinds of fans to be able to get a lot of use from the CLE without having to buy it several times over. So to that extent, you're right -- it's most useful for people who have a lot of stuff.

I think the problem is more with the lake set than the CLE in this respect, though. Even 1 basic CLE component quickly needs a lot more lake pieces to make things work -- there's not too much the CLE could have included to fix that, other than just repeating lake elements for us. The real issue, IMHO, is that to use the CLE to make funky shaped lakes, you need a LOT of lake elements.

2. Give people a lot of options, in a way that not all of them can be exercised at once. In other words, people with only 1 lake set are only going to be able to use 1 or 2 of the CLE elements in a given setup -- other pieces won't "work." There will just be different times when you need different pieces -- this is a "catch-all" set for any kind of unique lake-building need. It's not really designed to be used all in one setup, like the other sets are.

So to continue my point above, to use a lot of the CLE in one setup, you need even MORE lake elements.

Case in point: the notorious "1 corner" water element (btw, aren't there three of this, not two, in the CLE?). I anticipated a need and purchased a second lake set a few months before the CLE came out because I realized that if I wanted to use that 1 corner piece, I'd need a lot more regular lake corners and banks to actually DO anything with it. The lakes, as they get more interesting in size, get BIGGER. The more you want to utilize the funky arrangements made possible by the CLE, the more regular old lake pieces you're going to need to close out your lake.

(on the "diagonal corner" element - I took that as a way to avoid forcing us to use more open water pieces -- if you have two standard lake corners forming a half-lake, you can then use the diagonal corner elements to widen the lake, making the first two pieces a kind of "lake nipple" -- without the diagonal pieces, if you only had more 1-corner lake pieces, you'd be opening up your water and just need more and more open water pieces and it could actually be harder -- but then, I suppose it's just a matter of needing either more open water or more corner pieces...)

I'm rambling. I'll stop now...

L
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"In every real man a child is hidden that wants to play."

-- F. Nietzsche
 
#26497
Cavernous Lake Expansion Set and Tavern Set FEEDBACK! 6 Years, 9 Months ago  
Hello All,

First off let me address the need for odds and ends pieces. Stefan if it is not to much trouble a 1 side shore piece could be a nice 4 piece set. I use those to do a deep wide river or to make a island in the middle of a lake and use lots of those. I have 10 extra now but could use a few others. Not sure about mix and matching other pieces like a 1 corner shore piece or making sets of those stand alone. Not sure I need to digest that.

Now I do not have my set yet but I wanted to comment on the usefullness of this set the way I see it. With one set I believe the need or vision of this set does not come out. With 2 sets and some extra shore or blank water pieces the more the need for this set comes out. You start to try to break up the scenery and end up with odd corners and such. With 3 sets and several river sets and trying to do a complete layout with multiple blank water pieces and various shore pieces the need for this set is absolut unless you want dangling corners. Combining 1 river adn 1 lake you should be able to use a good amount of the pieces, with a couple of river and lake sets all the pieces should be used. Again my sets have not arrived and will not arrive until Tuesday or Wednesday but I am excited to finish a few layouts I could not before. Golem's lair was a big one I could not finish without dangling corners and another large layout similar to what jeff posted was another I wanted to do.

So in the end I guess I agree with you Monte to a point and you L, but I guess I am a differenct kind of collector. I like yourselves and others have lots of sets and have lots of water pieces. This water set completes and rounds off anything I would need so do what ever I need to do. That is why I can not wait until it arrives.

Lastly I think Stefan appreciates all comments both good and bad as long as they are done in good taste as you have done.

And now a word from my sponsers "DAD, your breakfast is getting cold. Get off teh computer and come eat with me. I made you instant oatmeal. You can do dungeon later."

-Shadox
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We Search our whole life never finding what we were searching for...
Over 143 Sets (Expanding), 300+ Loose Pieces (Expanding), 11,000 plastic figures (Expanding), 1,000 metal figures (350 actually painted)
 
#26498
Cavernous Lake Expansion Set and Tavern Set FEEDBACK! 6 Years, 9 Months ago  
"You can do dungeon later." That's priceless.


I was in the toy dept. of Target once, and I heard a man speaking with his 7 year-old (or thereabouts) daughter. "This one's nice," he said, looking at one of the figures. "The card's a little bent, though. But I don't know if I could find another one."

"Well," she said, with the world-weariness of all loved ones of crazy geek collectors, "I don't know what to tell you."

:D

L
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"In every real man a child is hidden that wants to play."

-- F. Nietzsche
 
#26499
Cavernous Lake Expansion Set and Tavern Set FEEDBACK! 6 Years, 9 Months ago  
A few extra one-corner shore/stone pieces would certainly help. Thanks for listening.
Monte
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#26500
Cavernous Lake Expansion Set and Tavern Set FEEDBACK! 6 Years, 9 Months ago  
Monte,

I am always honored to get your feedback on our products.
We do what we can within our limits...as for the CLE I think it's probably true that it's full potential is really most apparent to the owners of multiple sets (like me) and also that unlike the first two water sets it is more of a "filling in the odd spaces" sort of set. (also why it's the third set) I really haven't had time to play with mine (prototypes) extensively but once I do we shall determine which pieces might need extra availablility.

Hope your works are going good!

Best Regards,
Stefan
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Stefan Pokorny

CEO Dwarven Forge, LLC
 
#26501
Cavernous Lake Expansion Set and Tavern Set FEEDBACK! 6 Years, 9 Months ago  
Stefan,

The single MOST important thing to remember is that, no matter how hard you try, until the day DF can afford to STOCK individual pieces again, you will NEVER be able to make ALL of us weirdies happy ALL the time! Not even me. F'rinstance, I think we need a larger supply of straight and curved lake shores, as well as lake corners - but that's ME. Hey, I haven't even ORDERED a CLE yet, because cash was a little tight when the pre-order came through, and my memory is always running on 3/4 empty these days - too much stuff draining it! But I'll either get a round tuit, or I'll have to dig a set up on eBay because I missed out when you had them in-stock; one way or another, I will get at least ONE!
And I DO like what I'm seeing in the pre-hints for February with the Chasm set.

Keep on keeping on, guy!

Jim
jkratzer
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Jim Kratzer, a/k/a The Mad Yank
Proud Vietnam Veteran, LOUD VFW Lifer
insane GM
 
#26502
Cavernous Lake Expansion Set and Tavern Set FEEDBACK! 6 Years, 9 Months ago  
Monte,

If your Cavernous Water sets are little used, I'd be happy to take them off your hands. Why, I'd even pay for the shipping to save you the expense!

;)

Personally, I love the water sections, though the Dwarf in my campaign found it a bit aggravating (especially with the slippery mud bottom). My last game didn't afford me the opportunity to use the new pieces (they're in the foothills in early Fall), but I will put them to good use.
Kradlo
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Kradlo
Make Mine Master Maze!
 
#26503
Cavernous Lake Expansion Set and Tavern Set FEEDBACK! 6 Years, 9 Months ago  
Review of Tavern Accessories Set (SKU: MM-029)

Contents
Round Table x2
Wine Kegs x1
Candles x2
Bowl x2
Plates x2
Platters x1
Mugs (singles) x2
Mug Grouping x1
Stools x6
Main Bar x1
Curved Bar x1
Side Bar x1
Bar Entrance x1
Green Bed x1
Blue Bed x1

Component Review:
The very first Dwarven Forge I bought were accessories, the single Table and Chairs sets that came in those tiny little white boxes in about 2000-2001 not really sure. At the time I wasn’t willing to commit to getting any of the sets of scenery it was just too expensive for me. It was about the time of 3.0 and we had just started using minis, we still were using Chessex mats and Vis-à-vis markers but I as the DM wanted to add a third dimension since we were using minis.
The Tavern Accessories set, brings a stunning new dimension to any Fantasy Genre game.
Tables, stools beds, are very utilitarian and are the first type of things I wanted when I was adding elements to my encounter areas. They allow for the individuals be it a monster or PC to be in a real place, with terrain that cannot only hinder but help. Giving items that fill the room and give cover, hiding, and obstructions. Some of older sets did that as well (Tables, chairs, sleeping blankets etc) but the tavern set adds variety and brings in a fresh new dimension of needed scenery.

The Bar at first seems like a waste unless you only want to do, well a Tavern or Bar setting, but many of the items that make up the bar can be switched out for other purposes. Due to the details and utility on both sides of the sections they can double as dressers, cupboards, and shelves, or even more benches and tables (the entrance section). The bar flipped with its face to wall works well in many settings as more furniture other than a bar, an excellent addition to any scene.

The small items are incredibly detail oriented, providing food, mugs, plates candles and other items that mean an area is lived in, while they work well in a Bar, they also can serve in other “dungeon” areas, as a mess, kitchen or on the table of the wizards study, or the Villains bed chamber, to give a very lived in and active look to a place. Regular usage will become noticeable to the PCs then by its absence, giving great detail clues to an areas level of habitation. Or can even be used as “power ups” in various game systems, for lighting, health etc.

The Look
This is a great set for detail, adding detail to a game setup diorama, or the detail on the items. There are just so many small finely done items it is hard to go into all of them.

Over all.
The biggest drawback to the set is it’s coolest feature. All of the tiny tiny items, not loosing the single mugs, may well be a task that I fear is beyond me. I hope it’s not the case, I haven’t lost the Book of Darkness yet, or the Helmet and small coin stacks from other sets, but there are just so many here. It’s these fine detail bits that make the set, but will make it very hard to keep complete. The Styrofoam box it comes in should help this, but I dread dropping it some place…
But till I do loose some this is a great set…, even if I loose some it will be a great set, it just won’t be complete.
Ghenghis Ska
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More Sci Fi Please, request a DEAD END for Sci Fi Passages
Classes of the Old Republic
Some RPG and mini stats including the Exodus and AAT (along with good source of a Mini scale version of the AAT).
 
#26504
Cavernous Lake Expansion Set and Tavern Set FEEDBACK! 6 Years, 9 Months ago  
If your Cavernous Water sets are little used, I'd be happy to take them off your hands.
I know that's a joke, but let me just say that it's not a problem that they're not getting used. The problem is that of all the sets I now have (one lake, two river, one expansion), there's almost no way for me to use more than 2/3 of the pieces at any one time because they won't all fit together (because of the corner shore problem). That's just not a problem with other types of DF sets. That's what I'm trying to say.

So I'm not able to make the cavernous water setups I would like to, of the size you would think I could make with four sets.

I do think that a handful more single corner shore pieces, and two corner shore pieces (not opposing corners) would help my problem a lot.

More pieces without any corner shores would also get used a lot, but they wouldn't help me get use of of the pieces I already have.
Monte
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#26505
Cavernous Lake Expansion Set and Tavern Set FEEDBACK! 6 Years, 9 Months ago  
Here are my thoughts (for what they are worth): the CLE pieces are beautiful, just like all the other water sets. I do agree with the comments above that I have found it difficult to use all the pieces I have. You have to pick and choose; it's hard to make one big water set up without having several unused pieces. (I have 2 CRW, 1 lake, 1 CLE).

Now, I don't necessarily think I need to use all the pieces in one set-up but here's the biggest sticking point for me: it's very hard to enclose all the water pieces with the amount of shore pieces I have. I end up with a big rectangular lake without a lot of room to vary the design. I would most like to have a medium size lake with an island in the middle. If you use the shore pieces back to back to make an island you run out of shore pieces to enclose the lake. I would like to see a small island piece in a future set: either a little island in one tile surrounded by all water edges, or two (or more) tiles with land in the middle and touching one edge, but all 4 corners and the other three edges are water (I hope that makes sense; the idea is to put two such pieces together to make a two tile island completely surrounded with water.) I'm thinking of the reverse of the river dead-end piece (invert the land and the water on that tile). I suppose I could get another lake set, but using lake shores as islands still forces really big lakes around them. I want a small island and a medium size lake!

I must say that one downside to the huge water set-ups for me is that I mostly use DF as 3D terrain for the Star Wars mini game, so all that open water isn't as useful to me as having at least some land for the figs to creep around. Islands with bridges and stepping stones are great (got the stepping stones and bridges, but need the islands in my opinion!)

Tavern set: again, very beautiful and well-made. Very useful with the MBS. This is not really related to reviewing the Tavern set, but as long as I'm requesting things: I was setting up my MBS and MB expansion to play around. The pieces call out to me to make second stories (stairs, large floor tiles are easy to stack, etc.) but I would really like to enclose the floor tiles with walls and windows (when they are second stories for instance). I would very much like to see the equivalent of the freestanding MBS door (the one with a little stand that you place on a small floor tile) with just wall and no door. This could be 2 square or 4 square long or both. Also a freestanding window piece would be great. I really like the way you can mix and move the freestanding pieces with plain floors to make many different configurations (the cavern walls in the CRW are terrific for same reason).

Anyway those are my thoughts after playing around with my new sets. I really like 'em!
Purplesaber
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#26506
Cavernous Lake Expansion Set and Tavern Set FEEDBACK! 6 Years, 9 Months ago  
Yesterday was the day... i got my package from customs.

Here are my first impressions:

Cavernous Lake expansion:
- Lake Corner Pieces: think they are very good ratio to each other and were definatly missing in the lake set
- Stepping stones: very usable, two is a good number.
- Whirlpool: like the piece as is, won't be used very often, but is exactly what should be in this set
- Shore landing: another cool one, too. I would liked it more if the Skulls were seperate pieces
- Wall with Bamboo Door: like this one very much, better would have been if one side of the Door/Wall
had no skulls on it
- Stairs: very good peices, but they are a bit strange in this pack, feels not they fit in. Would have had another
lake piece instead.

All in all a very good expansion, but nothing really amazing (but many parts really mandatory)

Again the Question: will there be single Cavernous walls (i.e. a pack of 10 would do) ?

The Tavern Set:

- Round Table: this i like the most, square tables were in df before now some cool round ones
- Wine Kegs: nice decoration, but not my favorite
- Candles: second best piece in the set, ultimate versality can be placed even in a dungeon or cave
- Platters: my favorite, simply missing on all miniature lists to stand on the table in front of the adventurers
- Bowl, Plates, Mugs (singles), Mug Grouping: good to add flavour
- Stools: like the design, i'm happy to have 12 of them
- Bar, Curved Bar, Side Bar : all very good and versertile
- Bar Entrance: don't like this one
- Beds: are ok as they are, nice addition but no "must have"

Tavern set is very cool and i'm happy of picking up two of them.
Think it was a good idea not to put any DF-Walls and the like in, cause i think this set is
usable by other (normal non DF-Collectors).
Green_knight
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don't hate the character hate the game system
 
#26507
Cavernous Lake Expansion Set and Tavern Set FEEDBACK! 6 Years, 9 Months ago  
reading all those comments makes me want my boxes but they are still in green knights caring hands (we combine our orders). now i just have to cross my fingers that his car is fixed so he can bring them to our d&d gaming group on saturday....
camoudragon
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