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Den of Evil: A Confession
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TOPIC: Den of Evil: A Confession
#17532
Den of Evil: A Confession 8 Years, 2 Months ago  
The recent flood of DF (and DF-inspired accessory hoarding) has forced me to rearrange my collection and get organized. (I've noticed a missing piece, too -- a small stack of gold coins -- and I spent about four days thinking to myself "Did I have four benches, or only two?" - I'm telling myself it was only two to spare myself any pain)

Anyhoo, I've gone over things and I had a few mini-epiphanies regarding Den of Evil:

1. I realized that I had been initially slightly disappointed with the set, in ways I don't think I noticed at the time. I couldn't quite put my finger on it, but I felt it. ("like a splinter in your mind, driving you mad.")

2. I even considered, to make room (and money) for other DF purchases, selling of my DoE stuff. Then I thought maybe I'd just try to sell the passages. Then I thought maybe I'd just try to sell a few passage pieces, maybe a single room piece or two.

3. Then I realized just how much I like DoE after all -- and in realizing that I very much wanted to keep it, I realized what had been bugging me.

3a. First, it's slightly too light and too flat. I have been toying with the idea of giving it a nice black inkwash, to give it a darker look and more of a glossy marble look. From early sketches, that's how I pictured it -- and it heightens the contrast between this and other sets. I like the idea of the DoE pieces being a shiny black marble, especially if they're placed alongside regular dungeon pieces, to give a greater sense not only of menace, but of majesty. This isn't just evil -- it's Evil, this is important VIP nastiness here.

But I doubt I'll do anything -- I'm too much of a purist, I can't bring myself to paint over my DF. Plus, something like that obscures too much detail.

3b. I also realized that, after reading some of the early descriptions, I'd pictured DoE as a kind of gothic, maybe cybergoth, environment -- but a WORLDLY one. I was thinking WH40K type stuff, since it was meant to be both fantasy and SF compatible. I was picturing gothic, in short. But what captures DoE for me really is a kind of planeshift, space-between-the-cracks, Lovecraftian, Hellraiseresque quality. It doesn't feel worldly, it doesn't feel like anything you'd find just at the top of the hill. It feels like something you can only access through rare and difficult magiks. It feels like something that only the most rarified of beings inhabit, not something scavengers and grunts could have come to hold. (at least, earthly scavengers and grunts)

In short, I realized that I'd had a set of expectations for DoE, and since it wasn't quite what I'd thought it would be, some part of me was disappointed and I didn't quite rate it as highly as I expected to. Then I just sort of let it go for a few months, and when other sets arrived, I began to wonder if I could justify holding onto it.

Now I'm starting to see it in its own light, and it really is quite excellent stuff. Now my only problems are figuring out where the money and space for everything else is going to come from. And, to some extent, I still can't quite shake the appeal of painting it. Not a full-on paint job, just a nice inkwash to give it a glossier, slightly darker look, but one which preserves as much of the detail and original paint effects and highlighting as possible....

L
Law
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#17533
Den of Evil: A Confession 8 Years, 2 Months ago  
DoE could use more room pieces IMO - its a bit too halway intensive. it looks great - but not as useable as I would like due to the need for more room options. That being said I have tentative plans for a (featured) DoE component (mixed with some fantasy floors stuff & some Grendle etc) at the end of a cavern lake/river adventure that I plan to set up in September. We'll see how it works out - as it will be the first time I will have used DoE in actual play.

PS - I hear you regarding the Lovcraftian otherworldlyness too it. Its quite creepy and fascinating in its own way - I love the look.
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startr(x2)/fanflr/cv(x2)/cvpas(x2+)/cvriv(x3)/cvlk(x3)/delrm/rm&pas/octrm/advbld(x2)/wka/wkaII/curvw&pass/nrpass/trps(x2)/trpsII(x2)/Ogden/DoE(x2)/DoEWE(x2)/shp/MBS(x3)
 
#17534
Den of Evil: A Confession 8 Years, 2 Months ago  
The one thing I really like about DoE is something I hadn't noticed until I set it up in a big setup. The pieces are all way more uniform than the other pieces. I don't know if they have a better manufacturing process or what, but there was virtually no cumulative error when putting the pieces together.
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#17535
Den of Evil: A Confession 8 Years, 2 Months ago  
L, your post was pretty...deep. I would have to agree with you on the DOE expectation angle that you expressed. For me, I certainly wasn't disappointed with the "feel" or look of DOE when it was first set-up, but...I must admit that I would have liked to have seen it being a little bit "darker". Maybe just a bump up on the dark and creepy side of the scale...tough to put my finger on it, as to exactly how to accomplish that though. Maybe you're right!? -- black marbled walls or even just a darker inkwash effect in the stone-work.

If you DO find the courage for a re-paint of the DOE, then I HAVE GOT TO SEE THOSE SHOTS!! The more I think about it, the more I become convinced that you are right!

I'll push this one another step further...I've seen a lot of your paint-work and if you decide to go down that path and then for some reason you're not happy with the outcome -- I'll buy them from you!

Just let me know!
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#17536
Den of Evil: A Confession 8 Years, 2 Months ago  
on a little bit of a tangent...

finally got a bit of time to break out all 5 of my DoE, and boy do I need more floor and walls to go with all the passages.

don't get me wrong, i dig the passage pieces, i think that i'd really miss them if they weren't there, but i really hope something akin to the deluxe room set or even something like the fantasy/sci fi starter sets would really go a long way towards letting me make lots of big rooms to go at the end of all those hallways.

perhaps with slightly differing wall decorations, so as to keep the DoE R&P's limited edition quality to it?

well, i guess i'll need to wait and see what's going to be in the DoE WA set. my own hope for that is large floor sections and at least 3 6" walls.
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19 SF starters, 4 SF alpha, 6 SF passage sets, 3 SF Beta, 36 SF 6" walls, 6 DoE, 6 Cavern sets, 3 CR&W, 2 lake, 2 cavernous passages, 3 MBS
 
#17537
Den of Evil: A Confession 8 Years, 2 Months ago  
At the get-together at the True Tavern, Stefan mentioned that the DoE WA will "add some color" to DoE layouts.
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#17538
Den of Evil: A Confession 8 Years, 2 Months ago  
Definitely what is most needed to make this set come into its own is more room pieces, especially big floor pieces and and long wall pieces, as well as more 2" wall pieces and 2" floor pieces. While special additions like stairs, etc. will add more cool factor, we need the additional room pieces to be able to build rooms to put those special add ons in!
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#17539
Den of Evil: A Confession 8 Years, 2 Months ago  
I'll push this one another step further...I've seen a lot of your paint-work and if you decide to go down that path and then for some reason you're not happy with the outcome -- I'll buy them from you!

Just let me know!

Wow, thanks! That's flattering to hear.

Well, I'm holding off on any major changes until I see the expansion set -- I'd hate to make my original pieces completely incompatible with the new stuff! If the expansion still feels slightly too light and flat for me, I may just take a brush to both sets.

And speaking of the expansion, thinking of the various people I've seen commenting on the passages in the original set, I think one of the best things the expansion set could do would be to include some floor conversion pieces that fit into the "gaps" where the passages are. After all, I don't think anyone doesn't like the LOOK of the passage pieces -- it's just that we want more rooms than passages. If there were a way to turn the passages INTO rooms, or at least to blend them more seamlessly, then they'd stop being such a big problem.

Plus, you could get some funky, alien, evil shapes going if you have multiple sets. Put some of the X-intersections right next to each other, fill in the gaps with a floor, get a real neat crenellated look to a massive chamber....

L
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#17540
Den of Evil: A Confession 8 Years, 2 Months ago  
And speaking of the expansion, thinking of the various people I've seen commenting on the passages in the original set, I think one of the best things the expansion set could do would be to include some floor conversion pieces that fit into the "gaps" where the passages are. After all, I don't think anyone doesn't like the LOOK of the passage pieces -- it's just that we want more rooms than passages. If there were a way to turn the passages INTO rooms, or at least to blend them more seamlessly, then they'd stop being such a big problem.

L

now that would truly rock. i've seen some similar conversion pieces for sci fi on ebay, where it appears they took regular floorpieces and dremeled away along the edges to fit flush to the exteriors of the sci fi corridors. you could make rooms with the floor having the same appearance as the regular floor tiles just by removing the bits where the passage walls intruded on floor space. maybe that's a new style piece that DF can look at, floors that are made to seamlessly butt up against the exterior surfaces of the passages... for sci fi, fantasy, DoE...

i know i'd buy a ton of them, cause i've already got a ton of passage pieces.
shade_1313
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19 SF starters, 4 SF alpha, 6 SF passage sets, 3 SF Beta, 36 SF 6" walls, 6 DoE, 6 Cavern sets, 3 CR&W, 2 lake, 2 cavernous passages, 3 MBS
 
#17541
Den of Evil: A Confession 8 Years, 2 Months ago  
i've seen some similar conversion pieces for sci fi on ebay, where it appears they took regular floorpieces and dremeled away along the edges to fit flush to the exteriors of the sci fi corridors. you could make rooms with the floor having the same appearance as the regular floor tiles just by removing the bits where the passage walls intruded on floor space.
Shade -

Those are custom conversion pieces from Tony Colasante, formerly one of the (chief?) sculptors at Armorcast. He makes EXCELLENT pieces as add-ons for DF Sci-Fi, as well as some non-DF-Specific pieces, such as Transporter Pads, Engineering Section (which looks like the dilithium chambers from a certain Classic spacecraft we all know and love), to containment tanks that highly resemble something in which someone once recovered from an animal attack on a certain very cold planet, to some very generic computer consoles. Great stuff, from a great guy.

See ya!

Jim
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#17542
Den of Evil: A Confession 8 Years, 2 Months ago  
yep, i've seen some of tony colasante's pieces on ebay, and mean to get some... erm... when i'm not going a million miles an hour at every other thing going on. *sigh*

still, some floor pieces that would let us keep floors uniform AND make use of the "negative space" would be really really great. i'd definitely get outside wall mating floor tiles for every passage piece i've got.

but that's just the kind of DFer i am. ;)
shade_1313
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19 SF starters, 4 SF alpha, 6 SF passage sets, 3 SF Beta, 36 SF 6" walls, 6 DoE, 6 Cavern sets, 3 CR&W, 2 lake, 2 cavernous passages, 3 MBS
 
#17543
Den of Evil: A Confession 8 Years, 2 Months ago  
containment tanks that highly resemble something in which someone once recovered from an animal attack on a certain very cold planet
Jim, you can say "bacta tank." It's not like Lucas is so money-hungry that he's going to charge you if you mention...

Hey! Where'd my wallet go!!?

:D
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