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Out of Business?
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TOPIC: Out of Business?
#17354
Out of Business? 8 Years ago  
Jim, ever the peacekeeper.

Hey Jeff, howabout Jim as a second moderator?
Most forums I am a member of and/or have been to have multiple moderators so as to avoid the problems inherant to having just a single one.
RabidFox*
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SF: Starter(3), Passage(2), Alpha(7), Beta(2) someday soon;
Cavern: Cavern, Cavernous Passages, many individual pieces, Cavernous River & Wall and Cavernous Lake someday soon;
Fantasy: Room & Passages, Room, Octagonal Room, Wicked Additions I&II, Adv. Builder, Diagonal Walls Set, Dungeon Accessories, Medieval Furniture, many individual pieces.
 
#17355
Out of Business? 8 Years ago  
RF*, DON'T YOU DARE SADDLE ME WITH THAT JOB!!!!!

See ya!

Jim
jkratzer
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Jim Kratzer, a/k/a The Mad Yank
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#17356
Out of Business? 8 Years ago  
RF*, DON'T YOU DARE SADDLE ME WITH THAT JOB!!!!!

See ya!

Jim

Aw come on, you know you want to! :D
You do nor have enough stress in your life, right? :lol:
Trying to please all the different sort of folk here is always so much fun, yes? ;)
We all know you are just drooling at the chance Jim. :P
RabidFox*
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SF: Starter(3), Passage(2), Alpha(7), Beta(2) someday soon;
Cavern: Cavern, Cavernous Passages, many individual pieces, Cavernous River & Wall and Cavernous Lake someday soon;
Fantasy: Room & Passages, Room, Octagonal Room, Wicked Additions I&II, Adv. Builder, Diagonal Walls Set, Dungeon Accessories, Medieval Furniture, many individual pieces.
 
#17357
Out of Business? 8 Years ago  
Hey, RF*?

How do you spell "razzberry" on-line?
You know, as in "blowing someone a razzberry"?

Is it, "thpzzzzt!"?

So much for the moderator job; Doug Martin is welcome to it. Besides, once I get madyank.org up and running, it'll have a hobby and gaming forum on it, and moderating THAT one will be bad enough!
Especially once all my favorite weirdies (you, L, Mike IO, BlackHawk1, etc. - sorry if I missed anyone - oh yeah, Dante) find it.
I'll keep y'all posted on the page and it's progress. Since I've never had a successful home page, let alone one with a forum on it, it WILL take a while to build.

See ya!

Jim
jkratzer
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#17358
Out of Business? 8 Years ago  
So much for the moderator job; Doug Martin is welcome to it.
Hey, don't stick that job with me either!

"Moderator" is the moderator. I have no idea who it is but s/he is doing a great job.
Doug Martin
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#17359
Out of Business? 8 Years ago  
OUCH!

Doug! I just bit the end off my tongue and it hurtth!

See ya!

Jim
jkratzer
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Jim Kratzer, a/k/a The Mad Yank
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#17360
Out of Business? 8 Years ago  
DF is OUT OF BUSINESS???!!!!!!!! .......... sorry.........
whitewind
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#17361
Out of Business? 8 Years ago  
DF is OUT OF BUSINESS???!!!!!!!! .......... sorry.........
Just so there is no mis-understanding....Dwarven Forge is still very much in business.
Stefan
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Stefan Pokorny

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#17362
Out of Business? 8 Years ago  
Yeah... being out of business would make pre-orders a bummer. 8-)
pfworks
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#17363
Out of Business? 8 Years ago  
Too many things to respond to all of them. So this is just a little story about my experience and why I think DF's policy of moving to sales online through the website is logical and reasonable given the changes in the industry.

I understand Stefan's point of view here. I worked for several years in a hobby store here in Atlanta ("Sword of the Phoenix", 2 stores). This was before DF, but we sold a lot of miniatures and the then available ceramic and resin pieces in addition to the widest selection of classic board games, role playing games and fancy chess and backgammon sets in Atlanta. It is hard for a store to stock a full range of some things in quantities more than 1, and it is frustrating to a customer to see only one set when they would like buy at least 3. They don't want to buy it and then not be able to get enough to use it, and the store doesn't want a lot in inventory (a catch 22, but then some stores end up with tons of backroom space taken up with inventory that did not work out, and they tend to get cautious about new items until they prove themselves).

SotP used to have catalogs, and they allowed customers to place special orders (which would have worked reasonably well at the time). They never gave more than a 5% discount off for large orders. Actually, SotP also ran a small distributor business supplying much smaller hobby stores in small towns with board and rpg games because SotP ordered those things in big enough quantities to get very good discounts, and they never undercut the stores to which they distributed in their own retail stores. I'm getting off topic a bit, but the point is that at that time they were doing a really great job. I do know some of the distributors for hobbies (I placed some of SotP's orders), and some of them definitely under cut retail store prices. They sold direct though other means, which hurt the hobby stores. I won't mention names because my point is not to single them out.

To get back more on topic, I first saw DF sets years later in SotP (they had been forced to cut back to one store at that time). I absolutely loved them (they were the answer I had been seeking for a long time). They only had 1 each of 3 sets in stock (I think it was 1 cavern, 1 room set, and 1 traps set) and a couple of packs of furniture. I asked the clerk and the manager (both of whom I had known personally for years) if they could order any more because I did not want to get 1 set and only be able to build a couple of small rooms. I've made that mistake before with other things of this ilk. They told me that they did not do special orders any more, and they did not restock until the current inventory was sold. They were not saying DF was out of business or dissing them in any way (this was before those rumors), it was just the policy they had established.

Because of this I did not buy that room and traps set, because I was just not sure I would be able to get any more. Same for the cavern set. I did buy the furniture, because I could at least use that with other solutions. When I later got a chance to order sets in the quantities I wanted, I went completely nuts and I love them all.

BTW, Sword of the Phoenix has now been dead for about a year. I feel sad that I could not have gotten a lot of DF through them and helped them and DF, but that policy just did not work for me. I knew the owner very well, and I believe at that point he had lost morale due to sales being down. His reaction was to get more conservative, and that was the probably the exact opposite of what would have been needed to keep that store up and running.

The point I am making (and sorry to ramble while I do) is that the business model I saw there at that time is a pretty common one, and I am sure many others felt the same way I did and did not buy. That is why the "orders got smaller and smaller and smaller" (see Stefan's first post) despite the fact that a lot of people wanted DF. It was bad for everyone, and while the policy of stocking 1 or 2 is fine for a Players Handbook, or an Avalon Hill Board game, it is not right for hobby material. If a store can't stock a lot for cash flow reasons, they have to work out a way to special order it or lose sales. The world changed the day the internet become a vital part of every household, and DF has a right to do what they must to stay in business (and we are all better off for it - I love my rivers and lakes guys, they really flesh out the caverns).

I miss the game and hobby stores that are dead or dying, but that barn door was propped wide open when Amazon started carrying TSR's entire product line (now WOTC, but whatever) at a substantial discount, and many other online stores (such as Thought Hammer) started offering unbeatable deals on games online. Many game stores were already crippled by falling traditional game sales at the expense of trading card games (and many of those that embraced trading cards just died sooner because of the feast and famine nature of that market segment). And don't even get me started on what Games Workshop did to gaming stores - if their objective had been to destroy all gaming stores everywhere, they could hardly have come up with a better business model. This may sound harsh but even when I worked for SotP, we had problems with a stock room full of the 7 packs of miniatures per box of 8 that people did not want (they wanted that 1 hot miniature). Ral Partha and Grenadier never did that.

Game stores can still adapt by (for instance) offering open gaming and trying to build a loyal customer base. But they will never again be the primary market channel for many of these gaming products.

For you Stefan, this is a true real life story which illustrates the market forces (cause and effect) that led to your policy changes. I am glad to see you doing well and continuing to soak up my money. I have spent it on many other things that I got far less enjoyment out of. May you stay in business a long time to come.

Serra Angel
serraangel
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#17364
Out of Business? 7 Years, 12 Months ago  
Wow...I didn't expect to start such an enormously contraversial thread with my very first post here. Do I win some sort of award?

The retailer I spoke to is actually a friend of mine. He runs the local game shop, and attends our groups activities, though he does not actually play (reminiscent of "don't get high on your own supply"). He comes in costume to our Halloween parties, for example. He's a good fellow.

He actually called me about a week or so after I had initially contacted him about getting some product, which is when he told me that DWF was out of business to inform me that DWF has gone to direct mail, that he has a customer that does so, and that I shold order from them without hesitation because they have a great reputation.

So there. The big bad retailer told me to buy direct from DWF. Maybe sign of the apocalypse? :)
Falchan
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#17365
Out of Business? 7 Years, 12 Months ago  
Don't know. Maybe he doesn't know about DF and just didn't want to go to the trouble to look it up. Why don't you ask him?
The Olde Red Dragon
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