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International fees
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TOPIC: International fees
#16386
International fees 8 Years, 3 Months ago  
Hi there !

I am disgusted and I'm not alone about the high postage & package prices we have to pay if we want order Dwarven Forge items.Most of the suppliers in our european countries gives up DF or put month & month to complete our orders and many times cancel it....
DF does quality items and sells excellent sets for good prices but we are penalized with too high amounts of delivering companies if we wanna order directly on www.dwarvenforge.com.
The only solution is to buy in groups and to share postage & package fees and douane taxes....but when you are alone it isn't easy at all !

I did a lot of searchs and discovered that U.P.U. which is a mondial organisation of the O.N.U. is linked to all european postal services and USA too...in other words,it means cheaper prices for a international postage & package is possible.

For instance shipping a package of 8 kilos from France to the USA (COLLISSIMO INTERNATIONAL) is about 110 dollars (82 euros)...a airmail package with barcode,which is registered,with insurance on it & with a delivering time of 4/8 days...yes it's real and the limit is about 30 kilos... same price if you send from USA TO FRANCE....
Something great uh ?
I sent the link to DF via the contact page.
I hope they will check it.They can also go in every post office of the USA and ask about this to get competitive prices...
HeroQuestFrance
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#16387
International fees 8 Years, 3 Months ago  
HQF -

First of all, I hope that is an acceptable abbreviation to your forum name.
Although your suggested solution MAY work for DF customers IN FRANCE, it will do nothing for users in Germany, Italy, Spain, or the UK. Or for any other EU-member nation. As long as DF has to deal with EACH SEPARATE POLITICAL ENTITY in the EU, as far as shipping and customs ('Douane') are concerned, DF AND Customers will be unfairly discriminated against.
The ONLY solution is a European-based, EU-certified distributor, one who has been certified by Dwarven Forge as well as the EU, who can run import of all DF products on an EU-wide basis, with no individual Douanes charges, but instead ONE inter-polity customs fee. AND obtain those items DIRECTLY from the China factory, with DF's sanction and blessings.
Jeff and Stefan can do this; in fact, they have hinted, in a somewhat roundabout way, that they are eagerly seeking an individual or corporate entity with sufficient financial and political "clout" to be able to do this. Once the find one, they can then investigate said group or person with an eye towards ensuring that they will be suitable to the gaming population in Europe, and to Dwarven Forge. When all these criteria are satisfied, DF can relax and let all you Europeans enjoy the fruits of Stefan's artistic labors.
Remember, Rome in a day, and all that. Give Jeff time to do things right.

See ya!

Jim
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#16388
International fees 7 Years, 6 Months ago  
After some months since my first post no one distributes DF now in Europe.

Otherworld in the UK was the only one to sell a lot of old sets and provide to fans what they wanted for a good price on ebay.I bought him a lot that I sold to a friend of my club he finally sold me back last month.
(a long story)

There are the new sets I watch on www.df.com and I know I'm not the only one.
I asked the team to know the fees still to high to launch me...and my friends !
The only tip we have on Tom's website is to group the orders to get discounts but most of the packages (they hate or what ?) are stopped to the douane each time and plof ! adios the discount.....
We also have to re-distribute the packages to the good ones after so it's not so easy for european customers.
(german & italian do the same for years we're mostly all in contact sharing the same pain)

I've read the posts into european forums about the contener prices+douane,professional taxes and discount % on each set etc etc and it sounds very risked as always to take this business.
As I am the boss of my self company,I aready know it won't be in France where DF would have a center due to high amounts we have to pay to the state... but I've heard nice rumours from someone so all europeans plz wait for a little bit and we should be fixed !
I cross my fingers ! Do the same
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#16389
International fees 7 Years, 4 Months ago  
I suspect that DF has a deal with a company to handle their shipping, which would explain why it costs so much to ship internationally.
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#16390
International fees 7 Years, 4 Months ago  
My understanding, from reading previous posts regarding this issue, is that DF has a distributor in the US that handles all shipping. That distributor charges a flat fee (on top of regular international shipping costs) for all international orders because of all the paperwork and hassle involved.

So you have the distributor's fee, the shipping costs, AND whatever customs/duties costs each nation imposes.

I'm going to say something that will probably make me extremely unpopular: DF is not responsible for reducing ANY of those costs.

DF's distributor has done well by them. Customers get their orders in good time and good condition, and at a competitive price. If the distributor was charging a price out of proportion to their performance, or to other similar companies, DF would switch. That they have not done so tells us that the current distributor is representative of companies in the market.

The shipping costs are what they are. We are talking about moving a fairly heavy and bulky item thousands of miles by land, sea, and/or air. With oil prices rising, we should expect shipping costs to rise as well. DF is as inconvenienced by shipping costs as we are -- not only do shipping costs cut into their profit margin on items sold, those costs also influence some potential customers to forego purchasing DF products altogether. DF's unit prices are incredibly reasonable, and have been kept low because Jeff and Stefan are more interested in producing their wares than in making large amounts of money.

Customs and duty fees are controlled by the countries the orders are going to. It is ridiculous to send a message to DF complaining that your own nation has high import fees -- send a message to your political leaders! What do we really expect DF to do, scale their prices according to the import fees of each nation? That would mean that selling to Farawany would be less profitable than selling to Farawayia because their import fees are different. It would mean that DF would be subsidizing sales to certain nations, and losing money in the process.

The solution to this problem is, as has been stated, to find a European distributor. That distributor would make its own product orders and receive product shipments directly to and from the factory in China. The problem is finding a company (established or new) to do this under terms that are acceptable to both the European distributor AND to Dwarven Forge.

This European distributor (ED for short) will have to turn a profit while paying royalties to DF, either at a flat annual rate or by unit sold. These profits will have to come out of the savings in shipping. If the difference in international shipping from the US and international shipping within Europe doesn't come to a reasonable profit margin, then who will want to do it?

Licensing is also a tricky thing. I honestly don't know how the production process works (if Stefan has "given" the master molds to the factory in China, or if he takes them over when he places an order and brings them back when the production run is finished), but it may be necessary to give the ED a certain amount of control over the DF product. They might have to be sold (or rented) their own master molds, and they might want the right to develop their own products under the DF name. That removes creative and quality control from Jeff and Stefan, which is something that I argue against vehemently. If the quality of US and European DF differs enough, the two entities might find themselves in competition with each other. Different product lines could also result in competition, and would revive the issue of international shipping costs. And DF could also run the risk of losing ownership of their own product (unlikely, but legally possible).

The process of finding an ED is ongoing. DF WANTS an ED -- there is a whole customer base out there waiting to throw money at DF, and DF wants that money! But finding an ED who will do things the way DF wants them done, for the money that will be involved (initially, at least) is going to take a lot of doing. And remember, DF is actually a second job for everyone who works at/for DF -- they have other jobs that actually pay their bills, so they can't just drop everything to go to Europe and find a distributor. This is going to take a long time, and there are going to be a lot of false starts and near misses, not to mention deals that are (nearly) in place that fall through (and possibly involve legal action). There are going to be lawyers involved, which will cost significant amounts of money -- that may also delay things, since neither DF nor the potential ED are likely to have piles of cash lying around.

I strongly recommend that instead of requesting action from DF, international (and domestic) customers try to find solutions, whether long-term or short-term. Find other people interested in buying DF and place a large order. Find someone across the border (where shipping costs or import fees are lower) who is willing to take delivery of an order until you can drive to his place to pick it up. Find a shipping company that offers lower rates. Find a legitimate product classification that will reduce import fees in your country. Ask your local gaming shop who their distributors are, and whether they think any of them would be interested in investigating a distribution deal with DF.

Don't just complain. Be part of the solution.
jackattack
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#16391
International fees 7 Years, 4 Months ago  
www.df.com leads to an accounting firm's website.
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#16392
International fees 7 Years, 4 Months ago  
jackattack;

You've just repeated everything I've been saying (although a LOT more, shall we say, DIPLOMATICALLY?) all along.
Now, it's in the hands of the non-US customer base to make their moves, business, political, and otherwise. You and I have said and done all we can (and I DID do a deal for someone once, with no complaints on either side).

Jim
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#16393
International fees 7 Years, 4 Months ago  
mmhh... that sounds correct and I think to find a ED is not so easy. Maybe "otherworld" could be the ED. :-)
I bought some weeks ago some DF Sets from him and he is a good seller. Everything works very well!
It would be great if someone from DF writes in this thread and tells us how is the process ongoing to find a ED. Sorry for my bad grammar, i hope you understand what i mean... :)
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#16394
International fees 7 Years, 3 Months ago  
Is there anything new on the process about a ED for europe? I like to buy the new sets, but from germany it is to expensive... :-(
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#16395
International fees 7 Years, 2 Months ago  
Sorry nothing.
Lastest news were some european fans talking about creating in France a company to import Dwarven Forge but the company creation,taxes to pay and transport + refund in time of the investissement is impossible to survive.So the idea was completely gave up before july 2007.
HeroQuestFrance
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#16396
International fees 7 Years, 2 Months ago  
Hello... it would be geat if someone from DF could answer the question, if it is possible in the future that we could have an ED for europe or not?!?
Or DF only want to sell in the US and do not think about other selling markets? It would be great if someone from DF could say something to that point. Thank you very much in advance.

A german fan! :-)
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#16397
International fees 7 Years, 2 Months ago  
This would only work if the market in Europe is big enough so they can send containers directly from China to a European distributor. Don't know if there is enough demand to make the numbers work, even with an existing company that can do this as part of its business.
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