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INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING UPDATE!
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TOPIC: INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING UPDATE!
#10665
INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING UPDATE! 8 Years, 9 Months ago  
Due to a lot of unforseen reasons, we are having to alter our International Shipping program. Effective Jan. 1st, we are instituting a new requirement.

We added International Shipping to help our non-USA fans get the DF stuff they want -- even though it really is not a huge new market for us. We did it mostly as a goodwill thing, and unfornuately it has turned into a negative experience for a host of reasons.

In short, instead of just pulling the plug on the program (which would make the most financial sense) we are instituting a $500 minium purchase (before shipping). I know this is a real problem for most gamers, but we are hoping that this policy will encourage customers from a certain region to do a group order -- and then disperse the goods.

We are sorry to have to make this requirement, but the unexpected cost of International Shipping has to be minimized.

If you wish to make an international order, please send an email with your $500 minimum order to jeff@dwarvenforge.com. We will send you back a quote within a week. Thanks.
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#10666
INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING UPDATE! 8 Years, 9 Months ago  
Hi Jeff,

I am from Germany and I do not understand your product policy. What is the problem with shipping costs? I thought international buyers would have to pay all their costs of international shipping.

So we cannot buy from our local dealers anymore and you are not able to deliver all products because many of them are out of stock.

It is hard staying a DF fan anymore.

Anyway I would like to ask all remaining german DF fans to build a network to place group orders.

Please contact me in case you are interested.

Thomas Schmitz
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#10667
INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING UPDATE! 8 Years, 9 Months ago  
Jeff and Co.,

This is unexpected and dissappointing particularly for those who have paid through the nose for shipping in support of DF - I would have thought it was the customers incurring the costs and DF simply had to get a system in place of knowing the shipping weights and costs to make dispatch relatively easy. Surely it is not that hard? Noble Knight games for example does it as a matter of routine.

$500 is a major purchase particularly in an environment where releases are piecemeal, stock is intermittant, and limited edition releases are the go forward business plan. It certainly means pre-orders are very unlikely ubnless I want say 5 Dens of Evil Wicked Additions to go with my two sets of DoE R&P sets. Kind of absurd.

Have you considered using distributers outside of the USA to accommodate this as already suggested instead of abandoning your non USA customers?

If non-USA gamers can organise these collectives how do you prepose to support them in terms of special offers or holding part orders until the $ limit to dispatch is met.

For example I have a pending order personally of US$240. Can I keep this order open and say add the new Caverns pre-order to this plus some extras and have it all sent in April/May?

I think this out of the Blue annoucement needs more careful thought and better explanation as to why other internet retailers can succesfully use overseas postal but you can't and why you have shut down all other purchasing alternatives other than the $500 minimum purchase scenario.

Regards
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#10668
INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING UPDATE! 8 Years, 9 Months ago  
All

First I would like to say in defense of DF that we European customers are currently not supporting DF as some might assume. Not sure how many of you actually looked on the actual postage paid - but at least in my case DF did miscalculate it - despite the sum being still obscene. As I said it before - whom we support is the postman and the tax office. DF comes only a far, far third.

Secondly it seems handling is more of a drag of time as anticipated - which you can see how long orders take. Sure there might be ways to improve this - but that's not the topic here.

Third it strains customer relations when DF can't react in time. I'm disappointed when things don't happen after 2 weeks 0 and I'm patient (relative) as well as polite (hopefully). Sending extra mails or having to ask a second time will just make it worse.

Fourth DF doesn't get a good press here as customers are disappointed.

There might be more - but these are just a few issues I see with the international shipping.

Having said all this I still have to say that I too feel pretty disappointed by this surprise announcement. I just hope I wasn't the trigger for this as I suggested in a reply to a mail from Stefan to try out to organize some group ordering for the UK for the upcoming Cavernous River Set to keep shipping costs low. And my reply was in the last 48 hours prior to Jeffs announcement here which let me feel uncomfortable as I suggested this in addition - not instead of current practise.

So what to do ??

Waiting for an European distributor is unlikely to happen any time soon. Bombarding Jeff with e-mails and telephone calls won't help either. Whining here or prolongating the discussion with off-topic comments also isn't useful.

Therefore a few questions to Jeff in the hope of some answers.

1) How can you help to make group orders smooth for the organizers of such orders.

A suggestion would be to open an extra section here in the Forum where organizers for regional areas can post their willingness and where people looking to participate can find someone trusted to participate in a bundled order.

Personally I don't know anyone in the UK - so how do they get to know I'm looking for an extra $250 to get an order together, how to contact me - and why they should trust me (or I should trust them).

2) By how much do you anticipate shipping costs will go down ??

I personally estimated $60 for 1 DOE including PayPal fee (5%), tax handling ($25 flat fee shared by all orders), VAT (17.5%) , Shipment US to UK ($187 for 50 Kg UPS expedited or $273 for 100Kg) and second shipment inside the UK (£8.17 for 6Kg) based on an order of 50 Kg (approx. 10 sets) or $54 based on 100Kg + (20 sets and more).

Still a lot but less than the $105 seen posted here. Can you confirm that my calculations / assumptions make sense or correct them upwards / downwards.

Are there good suggestions out there how to get this organized ?? Please be aware - the Cavernous River set will be even more heavy as the DOE - and before posting - check out some numbers at USPS or UPS to back yourself up in case you come up with miracolously lower numbers. And I doubt getting around the VAT is legal as $500 of MasterMaze hardly qualifies as 'gift'.

So what can we (the customers) do ??

Find people to organize the orders. I'm willing to do this for the UK for the Cavernous River Set. Seems Thomas is starting something in Germany. Who can do France/Belgium (or could they participate in a UK order), Australia (I really feel sorry for you lot Down Under).

For the UK I would even suggest if there is an interest to stage a gathering of DF folks on the weekend following delivery. I'm having space - but I'm down in East Kent near Dover. But I could travel up to London / Cambridge with a car load full if need be. On the other hand it could be a good place if some people from Calais want to hop over.

I'm still feeling disappointed - but lets make the best out of it - and don't let DF die outside the US - until maybe better times.

Thod

To contact me: Jens@Loesel.freeserve.co.uk
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#10669
INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING UPDATE! 8 Years, 9 Months ago  
Seriously disappointed. Especially with the "Limited Edition" business. Especially since I tried buying some sets of DOE this summer and a "miscommunication" resulted in me missing the boat.
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#10670
INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING UPDATE! 8 Years, 9 Months ago  
wow! well, that sucks.

can you elaborate on the "host of reasons" it has become unworkable?
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#10671
INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING UPDATE! 8 Years, 9 Months ago  
Seriously disappointed. Especially with the "Limited Edition" business. Especially since I tried buying some sets of DOE this summer and a "miscommunication" resulted in me missing the boat.
You have not missed the DoE boat blairgb.
The entire lot of 1,500 was not done last Fall; only about 600-700 I believe.
There is another group of about 350-450 DoE R&P this Winter (Feb, I believe) with a like-size group coming this Spring.

Blairgb, you can order even right now for this Winter's shipment on the normal Dwarven Forge WEB page.

Good luck!
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Cavern: Cavern, Cavernous Passages, many individual pieces, Cavernous River & Wall and Cavernous Lake someday soon;
Fantasy: Room & Passages, Room, Octagonal Room, Wicked Additions I&II, Adv. Builder, Diagonal Walls Set, Dungeon Accessories, Medieval Furniture, many individual pieces.
 
#10672
INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING UPDATE! 8 Years, 9 Months ago  
This is very disappointing news for the 95% of the World's population which lives outside the USA! I don't generally approve of criticism of DF's business decisions on this board, but I have to say that this one really sucks!
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#10673
INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING UPDATE! 8 Years, 9 Months ago  
Wow, I hadn't been following this, but -- ouch.

I'd have one suggestion, though I'm not sure whether or not it's a good idea. Still, it may be all that can happen.

I get the feeling that this choice was made of necessity -- DF doesn't WANT to do this, but the fact is that they are a small company and international sales are simply not all that easy for them to do AT ALL. (the first part did describe it as a kind of charitable experiment)

It sounds like they have a domestic distribution system that works, but nothing for international. Sales are high enough that they can't simply sell like an eBay seller, having people pay shipping and sending things out individually -- they sell too much to do that. But they aren't high enough to find a cost-effective distributor. In the end, even with people paying for their own shipping, there is some kind of hitch that makes international sales too expensive/time-consuming for DF.

The solution, however, is going to drive away European customers in droves, and they seem to make up a good portion of the customer base. Certainly they are a vocal part of these forums.

I think that at least a NOD in the direction of help would be to refine the pre-order system. Right now, you can pre-order things piecemeal... SF Beta is up, but no Cavernous River set, for example. Things are in stock, out of stock... blah. If people have to pay $500, at least let them pick the $500 worth of stuff they MOST want, rather than duplicates or random things they aren't as interested in. It's a big investment already, but it's even worse if there really is, best case scenario, only $200 worth of stuff available that you want AT ALL. Spending a lot is one thing -- spending a lot on stuff you don't want or need is another.

So -- put up pre-orders sooner, at least for international orders. Take the $500 in advance for six months worth of stuff. They will still have to wait, but at least they will have only bought what they would have anyway.

It isn't going to sovle everything, and it may not even be feasible, and it may just not work at all. But it seems to iron out at least some of the more, well, offensive consequences of the current situation.

I mean, I love DF, but as it is now, I probably would have to quit if this were my only option. All I want, for example, in the immediate future, is Cavernous Lake. I don't want $500 worth of it. By the time Cav. River comes out, I may want $250 of each -- but what if Lake is gone by then? What if nothing I want is in stock? I lose out on both? I mean, it could have been the death knell for my DF collecting if this were how it was for me. So I really think there is more tweaking needed here....

L
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#10674
INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING UPDATE! 8 Years, 9 Months ago  
I agree with L!
Let the non-North American orders order $500 of pre-orders of items being released through the year.
The order only ships when the last item releases, but at least these players are not out of sets they would like to buy.
That should also cover known re-stocks that will not be re-stocked until later in the year.
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Cavern: Cavern, Cavernous Passages, many individual pieces, Cavernous River & Wall and Cavernous Lake someday soon;
Fantasy: Room & Passages, Room, Octagonal Room, Wicked Additions I&II, Adv. Builder, Diagonal Walls Set, Dungeon Accessories, Medieval Furniture, many individual pieces.
 
#10675
INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING UPDATE! 8 Years, 9 Months ago  
What needs to be done here is that you international players really need to start to identify yourselves.
I do not see what the big deal is in your personal identifiers about identifying what country you are from.
Too many are like you Bossman, with no country of origin let alone a city or state/province, in your personal identifiers to really make an impact on Jeff and Stefan on how many foreign players there really are.
With no country listed you could just be another of the many Americans playing the terrain that have no real worries about foreign buyers.
YOU NEED TO LIST YOUR COUNTRY OF LOCATION TO REALLY SEE AN IMPACT!!!
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SF: Starter(3), Passage(2), Alpha(7), Beta(2) someday soon;
Cavern: Cavern, Cavernous Passages, many individual pieces, Cavernous River & Wall and Cavernous Lake someday soon;
Fantasy: Room & Passages, Room, Octagonal Room, Wicked Additions I&II, Adv. Builder, Diagonal Walls Set, Dungeon Accessories, Medieval Furniture, many individual pieces.
 
#10676
INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING UPDATE! 8 Years, 9 Months ago  
The reasons why? Meh, they're irrelevant to me. I'm sure they are valid, and that it was a necessary business deciscion.

The root of my unease over this development is the combination of $500 minimum order with the limited edition business. If there was no limited editions, I would not worry about this.
When your a dungeon terrain fiend, and a Dwarven Forge Fan, and the window of opportunity to order a Limited Edition set versus one's own window of financial opportunity to afford spending 30% of my monthly income on a $500 order.........you get anxious. What if work is slow and they all sell out before I can afford $500 worth?

Limited editions remind me of the carrot/stick metaphor.
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Advanced Builder - Cavern x2 - Cavernous Passages x3 - Deluxe Room x2
Den of Evil x 2 - Fantasy Floors - Narrow Passage - Octagonal Room - Ogre's Den
Room and Passage x2 - Room Set - Traps Set 1 - Traps Set 2 - Wicked Additions
Wicked Additions II - Accessories - Furniture - Treasure
 
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