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INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING UPDATE!
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TOPIC: INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING UPDATE!
#10689
INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING UPDATE! 8 Years, 9 Months ago  
thanks for the update. that's what i figured the problem was. too much (wo)man-power being tied up answering emails. if you also just made the entire international order process online like the domestic order process instead of via email you'd save yourself more $$$. i don't know how feasible this is, but there's gotta be some way to automate it. iinternational shopping carts???

i assume once this new page has been integrated the orders will still be processed with via email(after postage prices have been calculated)?

thanks for finding a solution.
dudebird
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#10690
INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING UPDATE! 8 Years, 9 Months ago  
Believe it or not, DF was spending a great deal of time trading emails back and forth with many prospective International buyers -- only to have many of them NOT buy anything. We were losing money on the operation.
I tried buying a DOE set this summer, but due to being sent a PDF attachment that I was unaware that I had to fill out to confirm my shipping rate I missed the boat. Very frustrating on this end as well.
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#10691
INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING UPDATE! 8 Years, 9 Months ago  
Jeff & Co,

Glad to see that you are doing your best to sort this out and I'm sure it will streamline in due course. Step 1 is to get rid of the purchasing price barrier so it is a good start.

This needs to be followed with:

Cumulative pre-order policy (you will need to be able to track partial payments)
Cheaper shipping options (the fundamental problem with high USPS charges is what probably drove international potential buyers away and thus the administration cost and thus the policy change)
International distributers (you have to cut them a deal or they won't do it, particulary after DF going direct sales and undercutting retailers)

Looking forward to the new web page.


Regards
Bossman
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#10692
INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING UPDATE! 8 Years, 9 Months ago  
Jeff, Stefan and everyone at DF,

Thank you for that great news on the new international shipping setup being arranged.

I for one, will gladly pay a $20 processing fee for my DF orders. This appears to be the best option available that will boost DF resources while moderating the number of orders being placed - without implementing a restrictively/very high and arbitrary minimum purchase amount of $500.

The automation element of your solution will be great for everyone. Self-service will be faster for customers and easier for DF to administer.

Considering the costs and effort required to ship internationally, I personally see the $130 minimum product purchase portion as a reasonable amount/compromise.


To make administering this even easier, might I make one suggestion:
When, (or if) any order fulfillment response times are posted on the website please factor in additional time/days for these to be processed. This way, should there be any occasion when a delay occurs, DF will not receive numerous calls from "anxious" customers calling about "late" shipments. I believe the catch-phrase is: "Under promise - Over deliver!" I hope this helps.

By the way, THANKS AGAIN for the great news...it's appreciated!
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#10693
INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING UPDATE! 8 Years, 9 Months ago  
I know that this post will make me sound like I'm ungrateful, but here goes anyway.....

I don't share the enthusiasm of other international customers with the new arrangements. In 2005 I ordered a set of DoE, which cost me $205 after shipping and tax. Now that same set would cost me around $250 (with an extra $10 on the price, $20 handling fee, and extra customs tax), and I would have to order 2 sets anyway to make the minimum order value of $150.

Although the arrangements are better than the draconian $500 minimum order level announced last week, I still find myself paying twice what a US customer would pay, and now I'm being asked to pay for the administration costs of other customers who don't follow through with their orders. Is this fair?

So what does this mean to my future buying? Instead of ordering 2 or 3 River sets and 2 Lake sets, I'll probably now just buy one of each. Instead of adding to my collection when sets become available, I'll get them from eBay or other online RPG retailers where they have stock left.

I would be surprised if a few more international customers didn't feel the same way, particularly in Europe where you have a potentially huge marketplace.
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#10694
INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING UPDATE! 8 Years, 9 Months ago  
Yes! Thank you very much! I think this is a very reasonable solution, and I don't have any problem in calculating my own shipping cost. :-)

Only if there could be avoided the minimum 150$... well, well, don't get me wrong, I understand and is much more easy to achieve, but that will surely mean that I have to order whatever there may be in stock when I order my Cavern Rivers, etc... (I don't think I can afford two sets, I would like to, I swear...) to get a minimum of 150$, plus 20$ of international service fee, well, something in 30$-40$ extra unexpected stuff in the order is not very difficult... a little harass but I can stand it.

Thank you again.
arsthein
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#10695
INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING UPDATE! 8 Years, 9 Months ago  
Okay, okay, I know, I'm NOT an international or overseas customer! Now STOP beating on me and listen!

I have no PROOF of this, but I SUSPECT that this new arrangement is an INTERIM provision, in order to get non-US customers some DF products, at a measurable-but-not-totally-outrageous cost (as far as what DF is charging), without DF going under!
I ALSO suspect that Jeff and Stefan et al are working on overseas fulfillment centers, as was suggested by someone else, higher up in this thread. That would be THE number one method of arranging local availability and distribution for European and Asian DF fans, and allow those folks to purchase DF at a MUCH more reasonable price, while still allowing DF to make the necessary profits to stay in business and develop new goodies for us.
BUT (yeah, with ME talking, you knew there HAD to be a but), arranging and closing deals like that takes TIME!!!

Time.

Now, do you guys want the Cavern River or not? Would you appreciate being able to get the DoE Additions? Does Sci-Fi Beta appeal to you?

Then SHUT UP and let Jeff set up something that you'll be able to afford, even if it means you can't buy four DoE Additions, 2 rivers, and 6 Betas. I can almost GUARANTEE that if those non-LE items sell, DF WILL make more. And you'll be able to buy them at a reasonable price. Keeping in mind that governments WILL tax anything they can, and imported goodies ARE wide open to taxation. And European governments in particular LOVE to tax and customs-duty anything imported.

Give Jeff a break, guys, willya? He's trying as best as he can to ramp up a very small, niche business, to an international giant among gamers. That isn't easy with a market as small as we are - and make NO mistake, gang, we ARE a small potential market. RPG'ing isn't as big as we'd like it to be, and although it IS growing, with the addition of minatures gaming such as SW and D&D minis, the field STILL isn't as large as many card and board games - and video games eat into that! So DF can't grow quickly.
BUT, if we're PATIENT, it will grow.

See ya!

Jim
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#10696
INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING UPDATE! 8 Years, 9 Months ago  
I can see why people are tense, but I think this is a good interim solution.

1. Remember, it's not $150 PLUS the fee -- the fee counts towards the $150, according to the post. So it's really $130 in products, the $20 can bring you up. Is the fee annoying? Sure, but so is shipping costs. I used to be able to get this stuff locally, remember -- and at a discount offered by my local gaming place. So I'm personally paying extra in shipping and lost discounts. This is just not a company that can afford to do things in any other way at the moment.

2. $130 in products is not THAT hard with DF. It really means that you are kinda forced to buy a few "extras" if you want only one set. Most of these sets are going to be around $100 now, that seems clear. The smaller-box-for-$50 days are over, that experiment failed. DoE, SF Beta, and Cavernous River are all bigger, $100+ boxes.
So really, it means that you either buy two big sets, which MANY people do, or you buy 1 and then grab a $50 set or some individuals or something along those lines. For many people, two sets is actually going to be the way to go. It means if you pre-order early, you are getting the discount on both sets (rather than waiting six months to buy the second set, this time at full price)

Still not perfect, but much better, IMHO -- as the guy who isn't affected directly by any of this.... ....

L
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#10697
INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING UPDATE! 8 Years, 9 Months ago  
I know that this post will make me sound like I'm ungrateful, but here goes anyway.....

I don't share the enthusiasm of other international customers with the new arrangements. In 2005 I ordered a set of DoE, which cost me $205 after shipping and tax. Now that same set would cost me around $250 (with an extra $10 on the price, $20 handling fee, and extra customs tax), and I would have to order 2 sets anyway to make the minimum order value of $150.

Although the arrangements are better than the draconian $500 minimum order level announced last week, I still find myself paying twice what a US customer would pay, and now I'm being asked to pay for the administration costs of other customers who don't follow through with their orders. Is this fair?

So what does this mean to my future buying? Instead of ordering 2 or 3 River sets and 2 Lake sets, I'll probably now just buy one of each. Instead of adding to my collection when sets become available, I'll get them from eBay or other online RPG retailers where they have stock left.

I would be surprised if a few more international customers didn't feel the same way, particularly in Europe where you have a potentially huge marketplace.

Otherworld,

We have a Distributor in Australia however they haven't ordered in a while...The name is Walrus and Carpenter. I am hopeful that with this new batch of potentially stimulating products, they might decide to place another order with us. It would help A LOT if some of you guys down under e-mailed or phoned them to ask for your Dwarven Forge...

Similarly, in the UK we are trying to work something out with Esdevium...so all you UK guys, once again, a flood of e-mails etc...might help to get the ball rolling...

These Distributors can be looked up in your local phone books or internet I assume...I am not sure If I should be giving out our industry contact numbers or it might work against us, but of course, your free to contact them by local means...

Otherworld, don't worry my friend, we will work something out eventually and we definitely will not forget about our special fanatic friends especially when it comes down to (River) crunch time.

Also, L is right, that the days of small $50 sets are over...we are going with larger, get more for your money sets again. Brace yourself guys, The Cavernous Rivers and Walls Set is the most complicated Cavern Set yet, application of the water and warping issues are making this set incredibly difficult to produce. While it will be really kool, the price will reflect it's production cost.

Once again, I'm on your side guys, in 10 years of business as founder and CEO of DF I have made PEANUTS for my efforts. Why do you think we are basically the only ones doing what we do at such high quality? Because we only do it because we Love it. Be easy on Jeff guys, because if we lose him, DF will return to the dark ages...Don't get me wrong, I LOVE your enthusiasm, I feel your PAIN, can't we all get along? Seriously, we will try our best, but it will be imposssible to please everyone 100% and still stay in business. Having a Forum is a double edged sword of course, I don't know If Jeff realized when he decided it would be kool that it would also bite back, please don't make him regret it, because I for one, really, really enjoy posting here. (perhaps too much for Jeff taste)

And now, I am back to the Lake Set...

Sincerely,

Stefan.
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#10698
INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING UPDATE! 8 Years, 9 Months ago  
Stephan,

I'm pretty sure Walrus & Capenter got burned with stock that retailers would not take when DF went direct retail. I'm happy to start agitating from this end at a retail level on a couple of fronts but would suggest DF needs to mend some bridges with the distributer.

And Jeff - don't take critisisms to heart. Sometimes policies don't work or there are unforseen consequences. It's a credit to you that you can see this and are working hard to get better solutions. That Mr President badge is not all beers and whistles.


Regards
Bossman
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#10699
INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING UPDATE! 8 Years, 9 Months ago  
Jeff;

Dunno if I'm one of the guilty ones or not, but please keep in mind that at least ninety-five percent of the time, I am at least TRYING to help!
Of course, there IS that five percent...

See ya!

Jim
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#10700
INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING UPDATE! 8 Years, 9 Months ago  
Stephan,

I'm pretty sure Walrus & Capenter got burned with stock that retailers would not take when DF went direct retail. I'm happy to start agitating from this end at a retail level on a couple of fronts but would suggest DF needs to mend some bridges with the distributer.

And Jeff - don't take critisisms to heart. Sometimes policies don't work or there are unforseen consequences. It's a credit to you that you can see this and are working hard to get better solutions. That Mr President badge is not all beers and whistles.


Regards

I am not sure how our International Distributors and Retailers would be affected by our USA changes in policy. If anything it should have helped them out, since it makes it harder for International customers to buy online from the USA from those unscrupolous discounters whom unscrupolous distributors sold to...(not all USA Distributors are to blame, we had a good relationship to most of them) For International customers their best choice is still to go to their local stores...

O.K. I'm going to stop talking now but you can be sure that we only went the path we did because we were forced to in order to stay in business. I have met many wonderful people in the gaming industry, especially retailers and convention organizers, and I like to think that some of them understand the position that we were faced with at the time. evolve or become extinct...I don't think we made a big difference to most of them, we were always a small player compared to the card games, etc...

O.K. I've got my gag on now...
Stefan
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