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Entertainment and Ethics
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TOPIC: Entertainment and Ethics
#36949
Entertainment and Ethics 5 Years ago  
Is this entirely subject, personal, and individual?
IMHO, yes.

I suggest that whether one OUGHT or OUGHT NOT to financially support an actual criminal is not subjective. Human rights are not subjective; they arise out of the nature of man himself (whether or not one believes nature comes from some god, 'natural law' is what it is; man is a social animal (fact); social animals cannot live together if 'real' crimes like murder, robbery, rape etc are allowed; therefore those crimes arise from natural law, not just subjectively because some legislature didn't like them). Therefore, if any person violates the law, we ought not to support them.

Very short version of the complete argument.

Note this has nothing to do with whether one enjoys the art created by such a person (see above!), merely whether one should pay to enjoy it or only enjoy when publicly available.
lwizzel
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#36950
Entertainment and Ethics 5 Years ago  
Is this your humble opinion, or are you trying to tyrannize my mind?
Harneloot
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#36951
Entertainment and Ethics 5 Years ago  
Is this entirely subject, personal, and individual?
IMHO, yes.

I suggest that whether one OUGHT or OUGHT NOT to financially support an actual criminal is not subjective. Human rights are not subjective; they arise out of the nature of man himself (whether or not one believes nature comes from some god, 'natural law' is what it is; man is a social animal (fact); social animals cannot live together if 'real' crimes like murder, robbery, rape etc are allowed; therefore those crimes arise from natural law, not just subjectively because some legislature didn't like them). Therefore, if any person violates the law, we ought not to support them.

Very short version of the complete argument.

Note this has nothing to do with whether one enjoys the art created by such a person (see above!), merely whether one should pay to enjoy it or only enjoy when publicly available.

I think the question being asked is less cut and dry than this. While the criminal acts we discussed here are certainly reprehensible, what of those artists who are tried in the court of public opinion rather than a court of law? Jane Fonda was never tried for treason, but many feel her photo op with the Viet Cong was indeed providing "aid and comfort to the enemy." Consider Michael Jackson- he was never actually convicted of anything. Not that I doubt his guilt, but one could argue that without a trial (as opposed to a civil case) the question of his guilt will remain an open one. So while your point is valid, I think the question being asked is "more where do you personally draw your line when the question of guilt has not been officially resolved?" And that is certainly a matter of subjectivity.
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Make something idiot-proof and someone will just turn around and make a better idiot.
 
#36952
Entertainment and Ethics 5 Years ago  
quoted from above:
I think the question being asked is less cut and dry than this. While the criminal acts we discussed here are certainly reprehensible, what of those artists who are tried in the court of public opinion rather than a court of law? Jane Fonda was never tried for treason, but many feel her photo op with the Viet Cong was indeed providing "aid and comfort to the enemy." Consider Michael Jackson- he was never actually convicted of anything. Not that I doubt his guilt, but one could argue that without a trial (as opposed to a civil case) the question of his guilt will remain an open one. So while your point is valid, I think the question being asked is "more where do you personally draw your line when the question of guilt has not been officially resolved?" And that is certainly a matter of subjectivity.
My remarks were directed at convicted criminals - but also at those who one decided were objectionable for ethical, or even political reasons. Those are perfectly acceptable grounds for a free man to choose not to economically support an artist, but they are not necessarily objective, as you point out.

Fonda's action was concrete, proved and in fact not disputed. Whether one objected to it enough to avoid supporting her is a personal decision, but it's only subjective if it isn't based on objective standards.

I'm not at all sure Jackson was guilty the second time around - a jury thought otherwise, so he is in fact innocent (People of California v. Michael Joseph Jackson) - it's not an open question in that case. However, he settled a previous case for a whole lot of money, and in cases like this (considering the collateral damage) people most often fight if they are innocent. He certainly didn't deserve to be considered 'guilty'. Was never an issue for me - I don't like the man's music!

That's the hard reasoning. As other, less formally oriented community members have pointed out, this is a serious question and worth talking about - but it ultimately is a personal decision.

I can only say authoritatively that if Our Creator Stefan were found guilty of some heinous crime, my principles with respect to purchasing DF would be severly tested.
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#36953
Entertainment and Ethics 5 Years ago  
No worries.....my records clean;)
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Stefan Pokorny

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#36954
Entertainment and Ethics 4 Years, 12 Months ago  
I think we should we all have criminal records checks done and share the results? I don't want to be associated with any "wrongdoers"!!!!!!

We could even suggest it for e:bay?

(joke)
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#36955
Entertainment and Ethics 4 Years, 12 Months ago  
There's an ad on TV for exactly that. Apparently you can pay to have a background check done on anyone -- your babysitter, your gardener, your date, your friends, new acquaintances, whoever you want.

(not a joke)
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#36956
Entertainment and Ethics 4 Years, 12 Months ago  
There's an ad on TV for exactly that. Apparently you can pay to have a background check done on anyone -- your babysitter, your gardener, your date, your friends, new acquaintances, whoever you want.

(not a joke)

All that stuff is a matter of public record. There's even a website that will show you every crime committed by people living in your neighborhood- everything from "Meghan's law" registered sex offenders to unpaid parking tickets. I suppose its helpful, but its also a little creepy.
granpappy77
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Make something idiot-proof and someone will just turn around and make a better idiot.
 
#36957
Entertainment and Ethics 4 Years, 12 Months ago  
On the flip side....perhaps DF will decide NOT to sell to anyone who has been naughty this Christmas......

(Just kidding of course)

(I'd rather stay in business...naughty gamers? Unheard of!)
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#36958
Entertainment and Ethics 4 Years, 11 Months ago  
funny story...I just received a warning that I would lose my license if I did not pay my 43 outstanding parking tickets.... The funny story is that the tickets were received in a city/state that I have never had a driver's license nor have I visited and the letter was dated dec. 2008. I feel sorry for some unlucky guy out there who has lost his license and may not know it yet, and shares a name with me!

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#36959
Entertainment and Ethics 4 Years, 11 Months ago  
funny story...I just received a warning that I would lose my license if I did not pay my 43 outstanding parking tickets.... The funny story is that the tickets were received in a city/state that I have never had a driver's license nor have I visited and the letter was dated dec. 2008. I feel sorry for some unlucky guy out there who has lost his license and may not know it yet, and shares a name with me!

Shadox

Shadox: Be very sure the letter does not lead to YOU losing your license. These letters are becoming more common as cities grasp for every penny of income. SOmetimes letters sent to the wrong person can result in a letter to your "current" licensing state (that's how the sender perceives it) asking them to suspend your license. The fact they have your address suggests just that kind of confusion. You would eventually sort it out, but it could be a nightmare.

BTW, can you check your email and answer mine?

LWizzel
lwizzel
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God, Eternal hostility against all forms of tyranny over the Mind of man." - T. Jefferson
 
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