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The HOBBIT is COMING!!
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TOPIC: The HOBBIT is COMING!!
#27260
The HOBBIT is COMING!! 6 Years, 7 Months ago  
ouch...
Harneloot
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#27261
The HOBBIT is COMING!! 6 Years, 7 Months ago  
When arguing that Tolkien's LOTR was not written in Modern English, one should actually read LOTR (Modern English), Chaucer (Middle English), and Beowulf (Old English) and then come back and formulate a better defence than that Jackson was translating the works into Modern English,

LoL.
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#27262
The HOBBIT is COMING!! 6 Years, 7 Months ago  
Has anyone here listened to the unabridged (audio book) recordings of either the Hob bit; The Fellowship..., 2 Towers and Ret. of the King.


The ones I have were produced by Recorded Bo oks Inc. They are unabridged, (thus beautifully written) and read brilliantly by Rob Ing lis.


For anyone who wants another entertaining way to enjoy the L O T R or The Ho bbit, -as they were written, then I HIGHLY RECOMMEND these. As far as I'm concerned, this is a truly excellent way to enjoy them.

In fact, I listen to these more often than I watch the movies.

(When I bought mine, they could either be rented or purchased).
Wereweasel
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#27263
The HOBBIT is COMING!! 6 Years, 7 Months ago  
1. I didn't decide to change anything.
2. No, it isn't as poetic, but it also isn't as stilted and pretentious.
3a. I'll accept less well read, as I would accept less well traveled for a Southern American who couldn't understand a rural Irish speaker, or a Londoner who couldn't understand a Boston Southie, or any non-Australian who doesn't know rhyming slang. But SFF fans tend to be better read than most people (for good or ill).
3b. I might buy less educated, as Tolkien does throw around a lot of large and archaic words. But I'm not going to fault people for wanting a linguistics professor to speak more plainly.
3c. I take issue with the IQ thing. That's like arguing that people who never learned French are stupid because they can't speak it. Or that people who don't know what a "leaf-shaped blade" is are stupid because they don't know swords. There are plenty of very bright people who don't talk all pretty and vocabularized for any number of reasons, and there are a lot of very bright people who can't stand Tolkien's writing because of the thick prose and florid dialog. They aren't stupid, and they aren't wrong, they just have different tastes and different backgrounds (educational or otherwise).

I should not have said modern English, I should have said plain English. I will point out, however, that Middle English (which I believe Tolkien is trying to evoke) was not some Golden Age of language or literature. It's just the language at a particular point in time.

The books are a marvel of literature, not a marvel of moviemaking. (The mythology is largely borrowed from Celtic and Norse tales, reworked and rewoven.) The movies are a marvel of moviemaking, not a marvel of literature. I freely acknowledge that the written word is generally superior artistically (in the right hands) than moviemaking, but not all literature translates well to the screen. There are truly wonderful novels in every genre that would (or already have) make terrible movies if taken word for word and scene for scene.

My last word on this subject is that we should be glad we got any movies at all, and that they were as well done as they were. After the debacle of the rotoscoped and animated features in the 70s, and the sheer scope of the work, it's amazing that any producer, director, AND studio was willing to take this on. As for the choices made, they were made by the people who took on the project and all of its attendant risks. Not a single one of us was in a position to do so.

Peter Jackson is not the final authority on the interpretation of Tolkien's work, nor are his preferences (scenes included/excluded, character treatment, etc.) any more valid than anyone else's. But none of ours are any more valid than anyone else's, either, and condemning someone for not liking the things you like the way you like them, for not thinking the same thoughts you think, is... well, it is what it is.
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#27264
The HOBBIT is COMING!! 6 Years, 7 Months ago  
Jacksons action scenes are far superior to Tolkiens. Go back and re-read the cave troll chapter from Fellowship and compare it too the movie. There is no comparison. For those of you who argue that shakespeares works should only be made in his prose need to rethink that argument. Shakespeare speak does not translate well to movies as evidenced by movie sales and remakes. Jackson is a movie god compared too many modern directors expecailly in the sci fi /fantasy category.
I hope Jackson strays again from Tolkiens written word and i wont care(sacrilege) if one of the dwarves is a female dwarf just too bring in the mass audience. I look forward too talking eagles and the Long battle with Smaug.
For those of you who would rather listen to the audiotapes or would rather have had a exact copy of the book are clearly not jacksons intended audience. If he did it your way the movi would have tanked,he would have lost his ability to direct further films, and our chances for other great sci fi books turned too movies would have lessoned. If you disagree then give me a example of a movie that made the type of money lotr did that was more faithful too the written word
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#27265
The HOBBIT is COMING!! 6 Years, 7 Months ago  
There is one thing I hope Jackson does word for word though and that is Riddles in the Dark. Plus talking with Smaug..... I am just chomping at the bit to see what it will look like. I've not read the books now for going on 25 years so please be kind to me. LOL... I did read them 2 1/2 times though. Just could not make it a third time. I bought a large book " with pictures " of The Hobbit meaning to read it to my daughter " now 11 " I better hurry before she starts to think it corny. Hopeful she won't.
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#27266
The HOBBIT is COMING!! 6 Years, 7 Months ago  
"What have I got in my pocket?" said Dildo, fingering his .38 snubnose revolver.

"What?"

"This," he said as he emptied it in Goddam's direction.

Dildo would have finished Goddam off there and then, but pity stayed his hand.

"It's a pity I've run out of bullets."
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#27267
The HOBBIT is COMING!! 6 Years, 7 Months ago  
I'm with you, Jackattack. I wouldn't say the movies are flawless -- and neither would Jackson, if you listen to the commentaries he's constantly lamenting decisions he says he only made because they didn't have enough time to work things out better -- but I do think that, as independent works of art, they are pretty outstanding.

Sure, Tolkien fans can object to what got cut -- for me, it's the blossoming friendship between Legolas and Gimli. But then, these things still exist in the books, and if you really want them, you can always go to the books for them.

In some ways, I'm really GLAD Jackson made changes. Some of them I think are for the worse, but some are actually kinda neat -- like the fact that Aragorn is reluctant to take the Ring because he fears he will make Isildur's mistake, that his bloodline is flawed. That's NOT something I recall from Tolkien -- if it's there, it's well hidden, since usually the bloodline of Isildur is treated as a mark of strength, not weakness. But I thought it was cool.

The movies are like a jazz improvization on themes Tolkein established -- I wouldn't WANT something that's simply identical to the books, but visual. It's far more interesting to me to see another artist's riff on the same idea.

And where there are points I think simply don't work at all -- the Army of the Dead is definitely high on that list -- I simply recognize that, again, there are so many decisions they got RIGHT, it's silly for me to think that if I'd done it and fixed the ones they got wrong, I wouldn't have trouble with those they got right.

L
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"In every real man a child is hidden that wants to play."

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#27268
The HOBBIT is COMING!! 6 Years, 7 Months ago  
Peter Jackson was faced with an impossible (or nearly so) task: how to boil down over 100 hours of Movie (if he did ALL the story in the trilogy!) into something less than 10 hours, total.
NOW: I have a challenge to all the Jackson-haters here and anywhere else; YOU DO IT, and create a COHERENT, watchable, Filmable work, that STILL presents THE MAJOR THEMES of Tolkien's great Trilogy, and can be done for THE SAME BUDGET OR LESS, IN THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME or LESS (because if it takes ten years to shoot, edit, and post-produce a trilogy, you're screwed, buddy!), and can Gross at the Box Office at lest what Jackson's work did.
Betcha can't do it - unless your name is George or Steven. Or one of those other guys like that.
NOW; Put Up Or Shut Up.
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#27269
The HOBBIT is COMING!! 6 Years, 7 Months ago  
Hmmm...

I don't hear a Mad Rush for the typewriters or Word Processors.
Does anyone else?

That's what I THOUGHT.
jkratzer
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Jim Kratzer, a/k/a The Mad Yank
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#27270
The HOBBIT is COMING!! 6 Years, 7 Months ago  
Simple: do exactly what he did, but don't change the dialogue that was already written for you.

Viola!

Same movie, but better, with one less step!
:P
Harneloot
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#27271
The HOBBIT is COMING!! 6 Years, 7 Months ago  
but would have made less money. Your also assuming Jackson had 100% control. If he took the script too whoever writes the checks and said here you go they would have shown him the door. Too much money at stake for a potential disaster. I along with millions applaud jackson

Now if tolkien had directed it and changed the dialogue would you had the same problem?

George RR Martin has a fantastic series called Fire and Ice being made into a HBO series. If Martin decides too allow the editors to cut scenes should he? change the language?

no singing dwarves or orcs!!!!!
wicked cool
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