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Anyone else think 4th ed runs slow?
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TOPIC: Anyone else think 4th ed runs slow?
#34232
Anyone else think 4th ed runs slow? 5 Years, 6 Months ago  
The new power cards while being $9.95 for them is very cool as well. It is nice to just flip over a card when you use it and has everything written down on them as well.

I got all 8 of the classes for $70 so there are deals out there like that.

Sean
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#34233
Anyone else think 4th ed runs slow? 5 Years, 6 Months ago  
Power cards? Tactical minis game?? Everyone heals themselves??? WAY too many hp at first level????

Is there a "save game" too?

:P
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#34234
Anyone else think 4th ed runs slow? 5 Years, 6 Months ago  
...which would you rather do during your precious gaming time: have one or two combats? or many combats, role-playing, court intrigue and a mass battle all in the course of 4-5 hours, heck throw in a chase scene along cliff ledges while throwing spells. Once I realzed that I didn't want to spend 2 hours running a 4 round combat I chanced it all on trying something new. It worked for me.

But most important of all, do what you and your players find most fun. If you are finding the game slowing to a crawl, take out the parts that slow it down. You can only pressure players so much to be ready, and only use so many tricks to speed it up. But if the higher level you run games, the slower it goes, you have a negative return on time investment and fun. And that isn't good for you as a DM or your players.

Good luck and remember to have lots of fun.

ClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClap!!!!!!

Amen bro... you almost make me cry, I save your words for the future....
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I want my DF Spiderweb Accesories Set!!! ^O^U
 
#34235
Anyone else think 4th ed runs slow? 5 Years, 6 Months ago  
Power cards? Tactical minis game?? Everyone heals themselves??? WAY too many hp at first level????

Is there a "save game" too?

:P

Why there is a "Save Game", it comes in the form of a Sultan Game Table. :)

Sean
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#34236
Anyone else think 4th ed runs slow? 5 Years, 6 Months ago  
LOL - indeed!
Harneloot
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#34237
Anyone else think 4th ed runs slow? 5 Years, 6 Months ago  
Well I just got back from the new session and it went very well. Went through 3 encounters and everyone had a good time.
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Deluxe room and passage. Ogres den. Short passage. Room and passage. Fantasy Floor. Traps 1. Traps 2. Wicked additions 1+2. Orc war band, Dungeon Accessories, Medieval Furniture. Treasure and Magic Items. DoE set. DoE room set. DoE WA. DoE HS. Cavern set. Cavernous passage. Caverous chasm. ABS 2. R
 
#34238
Anyone else think 4th ed runs slow? 5 Years, 3 Months ago  
My group and I haven't played in years (or ever) and 4E runs ok for us, not that I have much to compare it to. As DM I give the heads up as to who is coming up (X you're up, Y you're right after) as mentioned above. Power cards certainly help as well. We also usually roll for damage at the same time as we roll to hit- taking one more step out of the process.
Things move a little faster as each of us gets to know the rules better each time we play.
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Make something idiot-proof and someone will just turn around and make a better idiot.
 
#34239
Anyone else think 4th ed runs slow? 5 Years, 3 Months ago  
I've been running a 4E campaign for just about one year. We play every other week, for about 4-5 hours per session, and I regularly get through 3-5 combats per session. This campaign's been light on role-playing in comparison with others I've run. We focus a lot more on combat this time through, and we've gotten into a rhythm with it.

I've tried to use the format for building encounters that's presented in the DMG, but my conclusion is that they design encounters to be purposefully easy about 60-70% of the time. Personally, I think encounters should be easy about 10% of the time. Easy encounters resolve quickly, tougher encounters resolve more slowly. Encounters with solo creatures above your level take still longer to resolve.
libertondm
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Check out pics and stories from my 4E Night Below campaign at my website, www.libertondm.com.
 
#34240
Anyone else think 4th ed runs slow? 5 Years, 3 Months ago  
We switched to 1E AD&D because both DMs in our group were getting tired of the drawn out 4E battles. Sometimes I could push the characters to a point where they felt threatened but with the healing in 4E it felt like they could be back near full strength in a round or 2, which really pissed me off. I felt like I couldn't give them a tangible fear of death and that the monsters were unrealistic due to their inability to heal themselves.

So far the change to 1E has been so refreshing. Just hit the monster until it's dead. Die rolls and fun are important, not which maneuver you're going to use to push the target or let your ally shift.

We're a good mix of role play and hack'n'slash.
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#34241
Anyone else think 4th ed runs slow? 5 Years, 3 Months ago  
I think 4E challenges you to think differently about how your combats interact with the scenario. In previous editions you'd just play until your wizard ran out of spells, then camp and repeat. Now, you have stuff to do all the time, so you can continue to explore until you run out of dailies or get low on healing. That's a much tougher bar to hit.

To beat a party so hard that they have to go home and lick their wounds is much tougher now, but it can still be done. There's been several combats in which I felt like I hadn't injured the party at all, but they told me they were out of encounter and daily healing powers, had spent their Second Wind, and had been at less than 25% hp at some point in the battle.

Ideally, if you want to grind a party down, you need a series of challenging encounters that will cause the party to get damaged a little bit, spend surges after each battle, and occasionally use dailies. Then you hit them hard with an encounter 3-5 levels higher than their own.

I think the biggest problem with 4E for players used to previous versions is that it's SUCH a tremendous change. It doesn't FEEL like 4E. It feels like 7E; far, far different from 3.5.
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#34242
Anyone else think 4th ed runs slow? 5 Years, 3 Months ago  
... it's SUCH a tremendous change. It doesn't FEEL like 4E. It feels like A DIFFERENT GAME.
Hi -
Fixed your text for you ;)

I think if you look at the demographic of New vs Experienced players you'll see where the game breaks down. In general :

Experience with earlier editions gives you a frame of reference that new players do not have.

New players don't have the Role Play aspect in their "tool kit" and 4e, with all it's endless and time-consuming battles, doesn't allow new players to develop that aspect of the game.

Experienced players expect a certain amount of Role Playing in their RPG and get frustrated when that aspect falls by the wayside.

So you have New players (typically younger) who enjoy 4e for it's computer game feel of rolling from combat to combat having many choices of actions to perform as they develop a "team" synergy with the party as they "level up" and gain new skills ...

VERSUS

... the Experienced (generally older) gamers who enjoyed a less structured game that relied on imagination over mechanics (AD&D) and developed their Role Play and story-telling skills.

Then, as in the case of my recent gaming group, you put the two together, and try to make it work for everyone. New DMs don't have the abilities and skill sets to entertain the experienced players and Experienced DMs slow the fast-paced, combat-oriented 4e game down too much for the new players.

As an aside, we "experienced" gamers typically have more demands on our time (families) and we lose interest in spending our time trapped in a cycle of combat alone.

I'm happy to be playing ANYTHING these days. But I do miss the days of moving an adventure forward along a storyline and feeling a sense of accomplishment after a well-balanced game of combat, intrigue, mystery and role-playing. These days, after a 4-hour session entirely of combat (2-3 encounters), I go home feeling somehow "cheated" for having spent my very rare game time on something that could have been, and was, so much more.

But that's just me and my take on things. YMMV.
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#34243
Anyone else think 4th ed runs slow? 5 Years, 3 Months ago  
I agree with you somewhat, Myrthe. It IS a different game.

However, nothing forces a DM to simply run combat after combat, especially if they're used to handling their adventures in a different way. It's not 4E's fault that experienced players get stuck in cycles of combat after combat. It's their DM's fault.

I'm not willing to concede the point that 4E takes longer to resolve combat. I remember many many evenings of 3.0 and 3.5 play in which a 5-6 hour session was devoted to a SINGLE combat with a BBEG. If that happens to you in 4E, I don't believe it's the fault of the system.
libertondm
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