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New minis pics up...
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TOPIC: New minis pics up...
#29680
New minis pics up... 6 Years, 4 Months ago  
Some of my thoughts on these "issues" which have been icussed in a few threads now...

- In general I love that there are pre-paints being produced at all. My fear is that this is something of a phase in the gaming market, and that ten years from now we'll all be saying "Remember when".

- I love that there are at least a few different genre' in production by various companies. But I feel that some areas have really been left out of the potential market, such as Moderns and non-licence specific Sci-Fi.

- I am willing to "Suck-it-up" and be happy for the good minis that come along in spite of the few really lousy ones because I just do not have the time to paint that I used to. Unfortunately, I also feel that if the quality continues to degrade that it will become harder and harder for WotC to recruit new fans of DDM.

- When the prices started going up a few years back I was not really happy about it. I mean, 9.99 for 8 minis was one thing (Cheaper from some of the on-line discount sites) but 12.99? I was worried. From there it just kept rising, 13.99 then 14.99 and now my FLGS sells the boosters for 15.99+.

At the time the argument was that the quality would improve, we would see more uncommon large pieces, and so forth. And, we have seen some interesting changes. More large uncommons (as opposed to most large pieces being rare), the addition of translucent colored plastics (what a difference this has been for Elementals!), and some other less interesting things like new package designs and so on. We have also seen some less than impressive paints and sculpts starting to show up.

So on this point I am torn. I like having light capturing translucent Fire Mephits for instance, but I can only imagine that basic boosters will be hitting the 19.99 mark before long, and let's face it the last Orc figure from DoD (The Orc Raider) was has down the most disappointing Orc we have seen to date, and many miniatures seem to be heading into the mnimal color/detail or clumsy sculpt pit of dispair close on their Orky heals...

- It also seems that with Dream Blade becoming more or less defunct, that we are seeing something of a merging in styles between the old DDM sculpts and the Dream Blade stuff. The fire and Ice Archons being two examles, the Chain Golem, and the Yan-ti Abomination being two others...

- I have to say that these days, when I am showing off my DDM stuff to potential recruits to the faith (so-to-speak) I am a little more selective then I used to be in terms of ht I might show them.

----------------------------------------------------

So, all in all I am still a fan of the DDM (and prepaints in general) but I am cautious, about my optimism towards the future of minis. I do not know if it is strictly a matter of increased petroleum prices that are driving up prices and reducing overall quality, or if WotC has become complacent about rabid fans buying up anything that they care to package.

It may, even be a matter of designers running out of ideas, but somehow I would bet that this has a lot more to do with a marketing/prodction/budgeting sorts of issue than anything else. But I really do feel that quality is slowly coming down.

I will, for now, keep buying new items, though I have started to purhase individual pieces from the secondary market more than I used to, and have not purchased multiple cases of anything for quite some time.

cha' DarSeqwij'...
MyLordVoid
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#29681
New minis pics up... 6 Years, 4 Months ago  
To be honest, I think that's basically where I am. There are certain sets, no denying, they are clearly superior to some of the more recent sets. And at the same time, I LOVE the use of translucent plastic. That's something I've noted before -- a clear advantage of plastic over metal. While I feel they've yet to exploit the "water elemental" possibilities (I remember loving water weirds as a kid playing 1e), they've done GREAT stuff with fire and invisible minis.

I also would add that the line, at its very best, was never perfect. There have always been a few stinkers, and even a moderately well painted figure done by someone paying attention is going to excel about 50% of the line much of the time.

But I agree -- having ANY pre-painted stuff is fantastic. Even though I enjoy painting, I really like getting some stuff ready-to-use. And, for that matter, I'm growing addicted to painting the DDM stuff. It's like you get to skip the first 5 steps, the most tedious steps, and get straight to the fun stuff - the highlighting, the detail work. All the stuff where your creativity gets to shine. Even when I'm in the mood to paint lately, I prefer prepainted minis to work on.

I think half the anticipation I have for AtG is the re-painting and touch-ups I have planned. (like adding spiked chains flailing around off the chain golem, or getting an extra earth titan to do in brown shades, or fixing up that seiously-needs-work red dragon....)

L
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#29682
New minis pics up... 6 Years, 4 Months ago  
The increase in prices and lowering of paint jobs has a lot to do with it being harder to cheaply outsource to child slave labor over in asia in general and China in particular. Labor makes up a much larger part of costs than oil does in prepainted minis.

ihscslnews.org/view_article.php?id=187

www.iht.com/articles/2007/06/15/news/china.php
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#29683
New minis pics up... 6 Years, 4 Months ago  
a) I don't think this is the right place to talk politics.

b) DF has product manufactured and painted in China as well.

The situation is outrageously complicated, and a solution has yet to make itself known to intelligent people. Those who wish to take up the gauntlet are welcome to (I'm doing my part, I'm going to law school). But this isn't the place.

L
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#29684
New minis pics up... 6 Years, 4 Months ago  
a) I don't think this is the right place to talk politics.

b) DF has product manufactured and painted in China as well.

The situation is outrageously complicated, and a solution has yet to make itself known to intelligent people. Those who wish to take up the gauntlet are welcome to (I'm doing my part, I'm going to law school). But this isn't the place.

L

1. Personally, I don't consider slavery a political issue here in the states (at least not since 1865). It is, however, definitely an ethical issue. I just wrapped up some research for my MBA on slave labor and was shocked to find out how widespread it really is, even today.

2. Many companies do business in China, but most double check the labor pool to ensure ethical treatment of their outsourced laborers.

3. I don't find slave labor to be very complicated at all. People like cheap stuff and slave labor fits the bill. By slave labor, I mean people who are literally kidnapped off the streets and forced to work by threats of violence. The real question is whether consumers will hold companies who employ slave labor (or who don't spend the extra time to ensure products are free of slave labor) accountable by not buying thier goods.

I do agree that this is the wrong thread for a non-gaming discussion. Anyone interested in some of the research that is available, feel free to either PM me or open up a thread in the non-gaming area. It is quite shocking.
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#29685
New minis pics up... 6 Years, 4 Months ago  
O.K. I had better address this:

I just want everyone to know that Dwarven Forge uses only reputable factories and that the working conditions are quite good where factories are concerned. Actually, it's more of a giant art/craft studio.

Our products are not cheap because we use good factories and not shady ones. We do not use "slave laborers" It is true that we have a very high turnaround of workers coming and going, basically, most workers don't last more than a couple years...painting miniatures is not easy work....I have been doing the same type of work for 11 years now so I know how hard it is. The new "painters" do the easy stuff and the "veterans" do the smaller details...When I have visited the factories the workers seemed to be doing fine and were quite friendly.
Basically, we have several dozen people sitting at long tables with really good flourescent lighting directly overhead each length of table. They work in really huge hanger-like spaces with plenty of ventilation. In this huge "hanger" there are many different painting jobs taking place, Dwarven Forge is only 3-4 tables out of hundreds. We do not use childen. The labor force is mostly young women. That is because they have more patience and have a harder time finding work in large cities. Most of our workers come from rural area's (farms) and are happy to get work.

Our manufacturing costs have increased by almost double, so I suppose the Chinese economy is getting better. Good for them, not as good for us...
Stefan
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#29686
New minis pics up... 6 Years, 4 Months ago  
Thanks for that clarification Stefan, though its most likely exactly what we all expected from you and your top notch company!!!!
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#29687
New minis pics up... 6 Years, 4 Months ago  
Stefan, I'm sure that working for Dwarven Forge has given the Chinese a strange view of us. "What do the crazy Americans want us to paint now?"

:D

We know you and the rest at DF would never work with slave labor or sweat shops - you guys are straight shooters, and would never engage in shady practices for any reason.
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#29688
New minis pics up... 6 Years, 4 Months ago  
WhiteWind,

I would love to play a DDM 2.0 Game. I am out of town for a bit. Will be returning in August. Catch up with me then. send an email to my hotmail account. FYI The Fat Ogre started hosting a DDM 2.0 and DND 4.0 game 1 night a week.

-Shadox
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We Search our whole life never finding what we were searching for...
Over 143 Sets (Expanding), 300+ Loose Pieces (Expanding), 11,000 plastic figures (Expanding), 1,000 metal figures (350 actually painted)
 
#29689
New minis pics up... 6 Years, 4 Months ago  
I was wondering if the Ogre was going to start that. I asked him about it about a month ago and he did not think he was going to. The single mini's have gone dry there. Not any new stuff. Prices seem a bit high to my taste, 2$ Common and 4 for a Uncommon. We don't use victory conditions but " for now " are using the maps and map selection and starting areas as the rules. There are a few things we can't seem to clarify " due to lazyness in rules reading I guess " such as how the evil, unaligned and good can mix up. We gathered that evil and good can hang out with themselevs or unaligned but at least one of the color coded areas they come from....blue " civilized " Purple " Underdark" and so on should be the same. Now I don't know if this is cosher but we have all unaligned parties also. One other issue we got going is this. We can't find in the rules where it gives any disadvangage to Charging... in D&D is is -2 ac right so that is what we are doing. Sorry about messing with the topic so much but it is kind of on track:)
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#29690
New minis pics up... 6 Years, 4 Months ago  
I am not sure. I have never really read the rules completely. However I agree with you about ogre. That is a sore subject with me. Another day.

-Shadox.
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We Search our whole life never finding what we were searching for...
Over 143 Sets (Expanding), 300+ Loose Pieces (Expanding), 11,000 plastic figures (Expanding), 1,000 metal figures (350 actually painted)
 
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