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4th Ed Game
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TOPIC: 4th Ed Game
#29417
4th Ed Game 6 Years, 6 Months ago  
Hello All,

I just got our groups 4th ed books. We will be playing tomorrow evening. I will let everyone know how it goes.

-Shadox
Shadox
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We Search our whole life never finding what we were searching for...
Over 143 Sets (Expanding), 300+ Loose Pieces (Expanding), 11,000 plastic figures (Expanding), 1,000 metal figures (350 actually painted)
 
#29418
4th Ed Game 6 Years, 6 Months ago  
I'll be interested in hearing....

....and I'll try to listen with an unbiased ear, though that may be difficult!!!
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#29419
4th Ed Game 6 Years, 6 Months ago  
I'm Game Master for the D&D Game Day in our area, and I'm brining my Master Maze for the dungeon. I've already received comments of envy from the other GMs, but I'm bringing enough for two tables (maybe three - we'll see what fits in my car).

I think it's going to be a blast.

The store got a really cool GM screen for ordering 4E books for sale. The screen is a castle wall and gate, with towers flanking the gate. Both towers are hollow, for rolling dice. The one tower has the dice roll out in front for the players to see, the other rolls behind the screen for secret GM die rolls.

We will see if minis can bleed...

:D
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Make Mine Master Maze!
 
#29420
4th Ed Game 6 Years, 6 Months ago  
Top 10 reasons why I dislike 4th Edition D&D
I’ve waited patiently and reserved my opinion of this revision. I’ve read through the rubbish called 4e and here are the top 10 reasons why I won’t buy into this game system. Thankfully my FLGS let me review his books and roll up a character. I’ve been playing D&D for many years, and in my opinion, this is version really stinks.
10. If you miss with a sword, you still do half damage. Everyone is a winner in 4e, even the weak. Why not just save even more dice roles and just have everyone always do max damage? Lame
9. No more Lawful Evil or Chaotic Good. The alignments of Chaotic Good and Neutral Good are now just GOOD. Blah. Why not just condense this into Good, Bad and Ugly?
8. Players can breathe fire by playing Dragonborn. I’ve heard that the upcoming 4.25 edition will have skunkmen who can spew stink clouds… a perfect match for how much 4.x stinks.
7. Instead of having content, a large percentage of the books have full page pictures… I would say 20% of the player’s handbook seems to be littered with pictures. More content would have been nice.
6. No more Gnomes in the core Players Handbook. Bye bye to Druids as well. However, we really needed another FIGHTER type? bleah
5. Rolling new hit points at each level is too complicated so that has been replaced with a flat hit point amount. Everyone is equal.
4. Roles… why does a cleric HAVE to be a leader? Can’t I play a friar tuck cleric around for comic relief and occasional healing? Too many stereotypes and no roleplaying.
3. It is too hard to count diagonals so all diagonal movement is 1. Also fireballs are too difficult to determine a sphere so why not make all fireballs into firesquares? Dumb this baby down so that people don’t have to count single digit numbers.
2. Monsters are written as something to kill, cutting out all of the background material… Just make a mob of 3 carrion crawlers and 2 otyughs and FIGHT! So much for any roleplaying.
1. The target audience for the books is 13 year olds who can’t count to ten and who all want to munch out a character.
In summary, 4e is a cheap rip off of World of Warcraft. While 3.x had some issues, I haven’t really been able to locate any redeeming features of 4e.
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#29421
4th Ed Game 6 Years, 6 Months ago  
Thanks - you saved me the pain of having to find this out for myself!

I hope WoTC chokes on a warehouse full of 4e books they can't sell!!!
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#29422
4th Ed Game 6 Years, 6 Months ago  
Harneloot... there might be some redeeming features but I couldn't get past the stuff I mentioned above... I kept counting as each item annoyed me and when I got to 10 without finding one thing I liked... I quit looking.

I predicted awhile ago that Wizards was heading away from pen & pencil gaming and towards computer based D&D but I had no idea that they would dumb down the system (other than lots of rumors from people who saw advanced copies).

If anyone does find a gem in the 4e rubbish pile, please post it and we might use it as a house rule to our 3.x game.

I'd love to agree that they won't sell 4e, but alas, I think it might be their most successful edition. Mob hunting, respawning characters appeal to WoW players and they might get a lot of sales to MMORPG players....

...sigh...
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#29423
4th Ed Game 6 Years, 6 Months ago  
Hi All,

It sounds like version 4 won't be that good. I'll probably have a look at it and if there is an idea or two that's alright I'll add it into my 3.5 rules. Sort of a 'chop shop' approach. I really don't want to buy a whole slew of new books at $50 (rather put that towards DF) a pop to replace the exact same titles I already have that are not even very old. Wizards left a very bad impression on me when the licences for Dungeon and Dragon weren't renewed. As harsh as it sounds, I too hope they "choke on a warehouse full of 4th edition books". It wasn't broke, so why did they try to fix it? At least Paizo will be continuing in 3.5 (as is my understanding from their news letters) and will probably produce some great stuff for the rest of us!
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#29424
4th Ed Game 6 Years, 6 Months ago  
Having run the game at GameDay twice, I got a bit of an impression of the rules, which most of us didn't have (I preordered mine from Amazon, like many).

The adventure needed quick start rules. WotC must have assumed that everyone would have bought the rules beforehand and read them. So, many of the situations, like being knocked prone, had to be adjudicated on a 3.x rules basis. The adventure was pretty brutal - I had a TPK in the first session (before even meeting the boss encounter), and the second resulted in 3 dead and 2 running for their lives out of the dungeon.

Some things I liked:

- 1st level PCs are no longer so fragile that one shot will kill them. They can realize they're losing before they're dead.
- 1st level PCs have a wealth of options for what they can do. It's no longer "Hold Portal - now I'm useless" for the wizard.
- Second Wind gives fighters a chance in combat.

Some things I disliked:

- I found the "diagonals count as 1" bit a poor decision. Square fireballs don't make sense to me, even in a magical world.
- Allies no longer provide cover for enemies. Even if the lone kobold is completely surrounded by your buddies, you can fire your crossbow into melee with no penalty, much less a chance of hitting your allies. I'm highly tempted to bring back the old days, when firing into melee meant a good chance of putting a crossbow bolt into your buddy's backside.
- Eliminating Chaotic Good, Chaotic Neutral, Lawful Neutral, and Lawful Evil. If they want to drop the word "neutral" because it implied "seeking a balance" instead of "uncommitted," that's fine, but I like my tyrants to be LE and the daring rogues may be CG.

Since I've yet to see the actual rules, I can't comment too much on the rest.
Kradlo
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Make Mine Master Maze!
 
#29425
4th Ed Game 6 Years, 6 Months ago  
I'm appalled! The change in alignment rules is just.... it's just crazy! CG and LE were two of the coolest, most basic alignments available. It's like getting rid of orcs and elves as races!

I have to admit, I'm reserving judgment on all combat rule changes. Combat has NEVER been perfect for D&D, and the compromise between "realism" or "balance" and "efficiency" is tricky and may ultimately be subjective. Some people really like certain rules/ideas and don't want to sacrifice them for speed or ease of play, and figuring out how to strike the balance between "makes sense" and "goes quickly and smoothly" is tough. So -- in general, making some combat rules a bit "dumbed down" wouldn't necessarily ruin the game for me.

But then, that's because I consider combat about 25% of the D&D experience. It sounds like this game makes it closer to 85% of the experience! And they basically gutted, or completely killed, the whole point of alignment, it sounds. Ugh.

I'm getting the books, but I may not get any beyond the core, and I may have those only to stay vaguely up to date on what the game officially "is" even though in my mind, and any games I play (yeah, right, like I'll have time) it will be a home-rule version of 3.5 anyway.

I think I'm just an odd-numbered edition fan. I stopped playing when 2.0 came out, and only got back into the game when I first saw DF and it sucked me back in. Now 4.0 has me thinking I'm going to ignore it again for a time. Maybe 5.0 will kick @#$@#.

L
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-- F. Nietzsche
 
#29426
4th Ed Game 6 Years, 6 Months ago  
I have a few comments...

Yes, I was annoyed that there is no druid, gnome, LE or CG.

However, I love the reduction of dice rolls, and the reduction of attacks. No more +12/+8/+6. Also there are no more opposed dice rolls, which speeds things up quite a bit. However, it seems to have lost a certain flavor, that even 3rd edition managed to keep. Of course, I thought this about 3e, so we'll see.

I'm going to try this out as well at Pathfinder.
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#29427
4th Ed Game 6 Years, 6 Months ago  
Once upon a time, the Coca Cola Bottle Company had a brilliant idea. They changed the formula for Coke, unveiling it as a fait accompli, presenting this new flavor to the world.

The near-universal response was, "If we want to drink Pepsi, we'd drink Pepsi. We want Coke!"

After sales of "New Coke" plummeted, they released "Coke Classic." Sales of Coke Classic immediately surpassed sales of New Coke.

In time, they dropped New Coke altogether, and Coke Classic became plain old Coke again.

Now, I'm not sure about 4E being analogous to New Coke, but one could draw parallels from the two. Like Coca Cola, Wizards developed 4E in secret, without asking the players what they wanted in a new edition.

It does seem like they've made a number of changes for the sake of streamlining the game. Some of those changes may improve the flow of the game, while others may simply come across as "dumbing down" the system.

I'm really interested in reading the books so that I can make an informed decision on the new system. I'm hoping this won't just be another New Coke disaster.
Kradlo
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Kradlo
Make Mine Master Maze!
 
#29428
4th Ed Game 6 Years, 6 Months ago  
Kradlo, that was an excellent comparison with new and old coke. We'll see if this was a mistake or not but for me.....

Bring on Pathfinder RPG!

I just downloaded it and like the direction they are going... such as actually reaching out for some input from their customers...
Aracon
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