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E4 od D&D on the way.
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TOPIC: E4 od D&D on the way.
#25999
E4 od D&D on the way. 7 Years, 2 Months ago  
Obviously owes a lot to Mr. Frazetta...but I actually like the ones that are less borrowed on the second link much better...pretty wild...
Stefan
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Stefan Pokorny

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#26000
E4 od D&D on the way. 7 Years, 2 Months ago  
My thoughts on 4.0;

E-Tools was SUPPOSED to be for building characters, not for playing them, or for running the game as DM. Anything that came beyond that was beyond the scope of the design as envisioned by WotC OR Hasbro. Blame Code Monkey, or Fluid.
I've been reduced to running an Excel spreadsheet that I input basic stats for each character and critter into, then roll dice and go from there. A total electronic system that lives ON MY PC or laptop, where I put in the pre-designed characters and designate what NPC or critter he's interacting with (it isn't ALWAYS a fight!), and the system rolls the dice and decides the outcome, could be a big help in big games. BUT, it MUST accomodate the idea of ROLE-PLAYING, or it isn't D&D.
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#26001
E4 od D&D on the way. 7 Years, 1 Month ago  
We saw the new saga edition of star-wars and disliked it, cause it was like playing in 1990 (only core classes that aren't much diffrent).
Our group likes the 3.5 edition and we have no problems with powergaming, cause all of our group are roleplayers we advance our
chracters not in the way he/she gets the most power of a certain new class/prestige class combination. We advance the way that is for
our character logical from his/her experience made.
As i'm a veteran GM for nearly 20 Years now i give out fewer magic items and money which has been a very good idea.
The main character group is easily playable and has no superheroes that can defeat anything (theyare at level 20 now).

Think Wizards try to get some of the new, young online gamers to play D&D, but for ROLEplayers i don't think 4.0 is the right thing.
Think our group will stick to 3.5 and done. On the good side we won't need any new books on the downside we don't get shiny new stuff.
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don't hate the character hate the game system
 
#26002
E4 od D&D on the way. 7 Years, 1 Month ago  
I won't touch this 4e thing. Required computer subscriptions? No more Vance-inspired magic system? Referring to character archetypes as "blasters" "gadgeteers" "leaders" and so on? No no no NO NO!
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#26003
E4 od D&D on the way. 7 Years, 1 Month ago  
Some of the things I've heard are ... interesting ... but it sounds better suited to another game system, NOT the D&D we know and love. And the archetype names TheDungeonDelver mentioned? Those reek of a silly 90's japanimation rpg video game !!
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#26004
E4 od D&D on the way. 7 Years, 1 Month ago  
I've run versions of my own modded (and constantly evolving) D & D rules since about 1976/7 - so I'm pretty oblivious to the various differences between AD & D systems. I do have the 3.5 books - because I like to include elements of new things and when I do minature games I often dummy down my rules or run more of an AD&D varient (that "walk up" players are familiar with etc) and I like to refer to the books etc - but I must say - I've found the 3.5 books near totally useless for that (so I find myself going back to earlier versions) - very unorganized and un-user friendly - I find it almost impossible to find the (basic) stuff I am looking for. So I think they need to work on the presentation better - get some folks who understand written communications. In any event I doubt I will ever actually run AD & D again per se - though I have been impressed how they have attempted to improve specifics of the game over time - regarding skills, magic specialization and character varients...one day they might even catch up to my system (not). lol
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#26005
E4 od D&D on the way. 7 Years, 1 Month ago  
I guess as a relative newcomer to D&D (only played since 3.0), I just don't get the hostility I've seen directed at 4.0. If the game can run smoother and make life simpler for the DM, then I'm all for that (whether 4.0 actually does that won't be known for several months yet).

And from everything I've seen there seem to be a lot of misunderstandings on 4.0. For one example, the online subscriptions are not required to play any more than a subscription to Dungeon or Dragon were required to play earlier editions. The online subscription is extras that you can add to what comes in your standard books (plus some stuff to help out groups that cannot physically meet, an evolution of play-by-post games sorta).

As to the archetype names, well, they are trying to bring in new younger players, so why not use terms they are most likely to recognize? Existing players already know how the existing classes fit together (or in some cases fail to fit together), so who cares if they've decided to name those roles?

As for reducing/eliminating Vancian magic... I thank all that is holy. The Vancian magic system is one of my pet peeves with D&D, and why I will not play a wizard (give me a warlock any day). But maybe that's because none of the fantasy books I grew up with used such an odd system.

My group will try 4.0 out for a little while and then see whether it's something we want to add to our stable of ongoing games.
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#26006
E4 od D&D on the way. 7 Years, 1 Month ago  
Well speaking just for myself I don't want to buy a whole new set of stuff. Buying additional stuff for an existing game system is one thing but having to do it yet again to keep up or just be left behind is getting to me but maybe it is something you can only feel for until it has been done to you 6 or so times from various game systems from the same company. I have kinda had it with that. One thing in particular that happened that got me mad was when I based up hundreds of minis for 3.0 and them 3.5 altered the base size for many of them. I guess from now on someone should do it so that you can put it on a base on the board with a tack of sorts and not worry about having the base the size that is said in a book because in 4 years it may be diff.
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#26007
E4 od D&D on the way. 7 Years, 1 Month ago  
And from everything I've seen there seem to be a lot of misunderstandings on 4.0. For one example, the online subscriptions are not required to play any more than a subscription to Dungeon or Dragon were required to play earlier editions. The online subscription is extras that you can add to what comes in your standard books (plus some stuff to help out groups that cannot physically meet, an evolution of play-by-post games sorta).
However, the fear here is that they will simply "cut" material that was suppose to be in the books in the first place and instead make you pay $10/month to access this content exclusively on-line.
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#26008
E4 od D&D on the way. 7 Years, 1 Month ago  
Guys, (warning this following message may not make sense as it was written while enjoying an Ice Cold Beer)

I wanted to chime in again. I was the first of my group to goto 3.0 as I had become tired of min and maxing AD&D. Most of my friends that are long time players are personality wise as follows:

We have a monte hall wizard or Dwarven fighter
We have a min max barbarian/fighter/mond type person who is a rules lawyer
We have me, a role playin, off the wall try crazy things because it is fantasy who cares if I do not build a character upto 400th level kind of guy
We have your a typical chaotic play for myself rogue
and last but not least we have I always want to play the cleric kind of guy.

So going to 3.0 was tough. But we did it as all the new material was written for 3.0 and by the way after you play it for a while it is kind of cool. When 3.5 came out we move to it as it fixed some broken things with 3.0. However no one forced us to. We coudl have continued to play with 3.0 or AD&D. As Stefan put it I still own the old books and my imagination so why not? When 4.0 comes out I will pick up the books and so will the monte hall guy. (We are most of the time the 2 DMs) We will complain about this or that and we may or may not like it but one thing is for sure. If I only have to buy whatever version of the 3 core books they put out every 5 or 6 years for the 60-90 dollars they cost and it continues to bring me and my friends toether to play once a month then you know what... It is worth it to me. One night of drinking just paying for myself can be more than that, one visit to chuck e cheese with my sons is always more than that. So I am keeping an open mind and if I do not like it I still own the 3 core books from 3.5, 3.0, AD&D, and oh by the way 1st edition also. The hatred does not make sense. I think Wizards has done a lot of good lately, DDMs for instance really changed how we play. Even combined Monte Hall DM and myself only had 500 minis and mostly PC and NPC figures. Runnig a game and choosing monsters often were dice or blocks of styrofoam with copies fo the monster's picture from teh monster manual glued to it. Using the real figures has sparked a lot of young players and material to play. Putting out the supplements also has helped to bring in young players. I agree a lot of the supplements threw things out of line but you know what? For 10 years we had only our group and we would take turns once every so many months to FLY to each others house just to play D&D for a weekend. None of us living anywhere could find a good group that 1. Took a shower 2. Owned a car or could get a ride 3. Was fun to be with when role playing. Now each of us still gets together 4 times a year but we all have 1 or 2 groups that play together. As parents introduce the game to their children it brings us back together to socialize. Parents who played years ago are now playing again because of all the cool props. (Look at the success of Dwarven Forge!) If coming out with a new edition makes business sense for wizards and it sparks even more interest than I say Great!!! I myself can not wait to meet new role players.

So in this Politically corect day and age here is my disclaimer. In no way did I intend to upset or disagree with anyone's opinion and by no means am I agreeing with anyone except for Stefan. (He rocks the free world!!!) The previous message was written off the top of my head while enjoying a nice Ice Cold Beer on the back porch why my son was chasing my wife around with his pet iguana lizard. Awe Family life is great.

-Shadox
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#26009
E4 od D&D on the way. 7 Years, 1 Month ago  
I too will probably buy into the new system. Granted perhaps not straight away, but in the end, I'll admit that I will eventually end up with 4.0.

Why? As Shadox has said, the game system has evolved with time and while some think it is fine the way it is, I still think it needs just a little more, and it will be interesting to see the new take on the game.

Unlike Shadox though, I'm not lucky enough to have a group that is keen enough to play D&D. Most of the gamers I know have pretty much become jaded with the D20 system and anything that even has the DnD label on it is shouted down even before looking at it. Which in many ways is a shame given the number of interesting worlds developed for the game system. As such, it will take a while before I get a good feel of the mechanics. I'm also not that lucky to have a family unit that is into gaming since my lil one is only 7 weeks old, but hopefully one day she'll have a large treasure trove of antique gaming systems to inherit.

Change is inevitable. Yes, its also a great marketing tool, but if the game systems did not evolve, we would probably not have RPGs at all. Or at the very least, the large variety of games we do have now.

While no company has the rights to our imaginations, you do have to give them credit for providing us the opportunity to get us going in the gaming scene. And they to have a right to make a living. So, in some ways I don't blame them for revamping the rules, provided there is sufficient changes to warrant the relaunch.

It is then up to every individual gamer to decide if they will upgrade or not.

On saying that though, I do share some of Harneloot's reservations about the new digital initiative. I too hope that this new aspect of the game will not hinder the enjoyment of those who don't wish to subscribe. I'm not a huge fan of digital rpg files, given my rather poor habit of archving stuff I collect. :)

Sorry for the rambling post. Have only had about 4 hours sleep in the last 48 and the brain is starting to fade :)
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#26010
E4 od D&D on the way. 7 Years, 1 Month ago  
The core thing for me is the following:

my group does roleplaying... ROLEPLAYING not Tabletop-Gaming

The new edition seems to go towards tabletop again, removing the ROLEplaying aspect of the game.
Wizards does well with this, since right now thew understanding of rolepying is having a char and
building it to muchkinism. Not what most of us wanted in the past (finding into another person and
doing what we think this person does).

For all of you that don't understand what i mean:
Computergames that are called "Roleplaying games" are nor Rolepaling games, they are
kind of stragety games (like Commandos i.e.). The Roleplaing aspect has is almost not survived the years.

One other thing really annoys me: removing the "memorizing spells" part. With doing this the new edition is
dead for me, that was the one i liked from D&D over to AD&D back to D&D again.
Without memorizing it is no D&D (the mechanism is far too personalizing), and i can find better games
that are on the market right now.
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don't hate the character hate the game system
 
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