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Whoa! HUGE news from Reaper!
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TOPIC: Whoa! HUGE news from Reaper!
#22768
Whoa! HUGE news from Reaper! 7 Years ago  
Reaper is now about to do for fantasy what Mongoose and Rackham are doing for modern warfare and sci fi.
Willypold,

Now that I've seen the Reaper atrocities in person first-hand and the pics are public, would you care to continue to debate my questioning of Reaper's leap into pre-painted minis as being a "me too!" approach?

Legendary Encounters was a questionable business foray by Reaper when they could have used those resources to fill out missing holes in their metal line.

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#22769
Whoa! HUGE news from Reaper! 7 Years ago  
If the quality had been up to par with what Reaper does in metal, it could have been really great.

I'm heavily into Warhammer 40,000 and now AT-43. I don't have any painted armies for any fantasy games, but would like to have some. But I don't have the time or the energy to paint up several more armies.

Well, Reaper doesn't seem to be the answer it could have been. On the other hand, Rackham has announced that they are going plastic with their fantasy game - Confrontation - and considering the quality of the AT-43 range, and that the new Confrontation rules have a lot in common with the fabolously great AT-43 rules I have high hopes that _their_ plastic line is going to sit much more comfortably in the DF sets I've bought than anything else I've bought but not been too happy with.
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#22770
Whoa! HUGE news from Reaper! 7 Years ago  
Wow, the sounds of things here and at the Reaper forum suggest people are even more let-down than I was!

I think these are definitely mediocre, but I don't find them uselessly terrible. The orcs, to be honest, I never liked even in metal -- they just don't work for me. And the same could be said of the ogre chieftain -- though his paint job isn' t helping. But the only figure whose paint job strikes me as truly inadequate is the cave troll. I've done a few monochromatic figures in my day -- CoolMini always HATES those, they were merciless with a GW flamer of Tzeench that I did with only shades of blue -- but something like this needs at least some different colors on the face and belly, not to mention a stronger shift of color on the loincloth. It just looks unfinished.

Still, from the way Reaper promoted the gallery -- "Because your first encounter should be random, not your miniatures!" it sounds to me like they were never planning to set the world on fire with impressive paint on these. The goal was to sell individual, non-randomized figures for a low price.

So I feel somewhat obligated to rush to their defense, at least on that point. Was it a good business move? Sounds already like it may not have been.

But did they deliver what they promised, what they intended to deliver? They may have. If you can buy these guys at $3-4 a pop, and pick up exactly the ones you want in the quantities you want, that's already something you really can't do anywhere else. Even DF sells minis in multi-packs.

That's the revolution, I think. If sales warrant -- and I hope they do, but it sounds like they may not -- the line may improve as Reaper decides it's worth investing more in more impressive paint apps. But I think the promise of this line, and its chief source of appeal, was never meant to be its earth-shattering, bar-setting, outrageously impressive paint jobs.

L
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#22771
Whoa! HUGE news from Reaper! 7 Years ago  
L,

Non-randomized pre-painted plastic minis are widely available by D&D resellers or even on ebay. In my opinion, Reaper didn't perform due diligence with market research on this one.

The product is a glumped on paint job of an existing miniature that a seven year old could do. From what I can tell they used existing molds that really are obsolete minis in their line.

They didn't make a game out of minis.
They didn't use new unique sculptings.
They didn't meet even D&D's paint quality, although they did nudge out mageknight, which isn't saying much.
They didn't provide much of an initial selection.
They were late in releasing the product (missed any type of splash at GAMA)
They failed to market this to retailers (I don't know a single store in my area that even knows about "Legendary Encounters")

However, they can now say "Me TOO!" we have prepainted minis too!

They can also say "ouch" when the product line fails.

The bottom line is that I don't see a revolution here. These atrocities won't displace D&D minis, and were a questionable business decision.
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#22772
Whoa! HUGE news from Reaper! 7 Years ago  
L, I understand the comments you are making with regards to the defence of Reaper. They are to be commended in producing a set of non randomized prepainted group of figures. That is something the hobby definitely needs.

And, to be honest, based upon my own personal skills at painting, my expectations weren't that high to start with.

It's just that the paintwork of the Reaper plastic figures just seem flat and lifeless compared with even D&D figures.

I just had a look at the sneak peak photos above, and even those look a heck of a lot better than the stuff they have just placed on the website.

Problem with feedback on the forums is the preset ideas of most fans. Reaper fans generally paint their own figures already and would probably have a higher expectation than most, based upon their own work. DF fans, well, we're spoilt by the great work Stefan kicks out and we probably have a higher standard of expectation than most gamers.

I probably fall into that category as well.

But on saying that, dont forget, there are other gamers out there that my still like what is available. So the marketing experiment is not toally bust as of yet. However, I agree it doesn't bode well for their initial foray into the market
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#22773
Whoa! HUGE news from Reaper! 7 Years ago  
Yeah, I agree -- things don't look good. The sentiment online seems to be uniform indifference-to-hostility. So...who WILL buy these? Unless there's a reasonably large group of people out there who aren't online but still are into this hobby (and is that even plausible these days?)

L
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#22774
Whoa! HUGE news from Reaper! 7 Years ago  
They didn't make a game out of minis.
They didn't use new unique sculptings.
They didn't meet even D&D's paint quality, although they did nudge out mageknight, which isn't saying much.
They didn't provide much of an initial selection.
They were late in releasing the product (missed any type of splash at GAMA)
They failed to market this to retailers (I don't know a single store in my area that even knows about "Legendary Encounters")

The bottom line is that I don't see a revolution here. These atrocities won't displace D&D minis, and were a questionable business decision.

Why would they make a game out of this, when they Already have a game system that these are "legal proxies" for? Why create another game, when WarlordExsists? The first outing has the Grunts for 2 of their armies it looks like, so why should they make another game for it?

Why shoud they make new sculpts, seriously? Using old sculpts saves them $, they don't have to redo anything they use existing items, the Target market isn't likely to have many, if any, of the models so the target market isn't going to complain about buying the same thing over again.

As for the D&D Paint quality i think they actualy beat it on a few, the DDM vary GREATLY if the mini is a Rare or Common. There are common minis that have just 1-2 deco ops. The last base set got really panned for this cuase there were some minis that had just 2 colors added over the black the mini was made out of. And even now 13 lines into the run some of the commons, [b] I [/i] could do a better job on, and that says a lot cause i SUCK at painting. If people really care about the paint job no pre-paints will EVER live up to what they want it to be unless they do it themselves, but the whole point of the line is that it's not for those people.

This i agree on, 9 figures, that's my complaint with the line, there are only 9 figures in the whole line, and there are only 2 i give a fig about. They in my mind did make a mistake in not putting out more figures, and they made a Big mistake in gearing it way too much to support the Warlord game, or Wargames in general, the marketing makes it look like it's geared to RPG, but the figures totally fail to work on the RPG level. They are figures you can get anywhere, DDM or GW, to name two. And while only one of those are pre-painted they market is glutted with the skellies and Orcs. Figs i don't care about, I like the Ogre, and i kind of like the troll, the only ones i'm looking at. The rest are very over done, and aren't what i as a RPG player are looking for Selection missed the mark completly.

Er, it was never suppossed to be release for GAMA, GAMA was April 23-26, 2007, and these weren't even due till June, yeah they were late for when they, were due out, but they Are on time for GenCon (August 16-19, 2007) so what's the big whoop, honestly GenCon, which is for the Customers, the Gamers is a much better place to have these things at. If they had it for GAMA, the Game Manufacturers Association, they would be showing it off to other manufacturers. This way it's ready for sale for the people buying it, i have to admit i think it's a better option for release. While GAMA may have store owners going to it, GenCon has that and players.

Perhaps the stores in your area just suck, the three in my area have heard of the line, one got a flyer on it even...


Er why does there need to be a revolution?
I don't as pretty much the target audience for this product, want a revolution i think what they have is a decent idea, but poorly done. I don't think the paint jobs are bad (i'm not a painter so i don't care if they arn't "pro painted" they are better than i care to take the time to do/can do, and i am far older than a 7 year old and think these look fine, could they be better, sure but they could be worse as well). I don't think the sculpts are bad, or they need to make a totally new ones, cause hey i on'y own 1 of those 9 minis, and the 2 i'm looking at are very nice and look good. So for the most part i like the way the line looks...
I think the missed the mark pretty big time on two parts of the product. They held to heavy to wargamers, making the minis that "they" want for Grunt troops, and really not looking at the minis DM's want. Sure many DM's want Orcs and Skeletons, but the bulk of this line is low level 1st to 3rd level stuff you face early on and then to get past, they didn't make any of the interesting stuff that you fight later, and are hard to get in other lines (the DDM). That's where this line holds the most promise to RPG players, the hard to get stuff that the out of the box player wants, but doesn't want to shell out $25-50 on, not the grunts. So the things i think they missed on are in reality 1 thing. Selection. Number of figs and the specifc choices. They are going to be drastically limited in number, its the size of the business, and they way they are making them, Non-blind is going to tend to force smaller runs than D&DM. Look at everyones much vaunted AT-43, DDM and SW puts out more figs in a set of SW or DD, even WK does, than have been released by Mongoose or Rakham, even Heroscapes non blind don't put out many figs in a set, it's the nature of the blind packing you can afford to put "junk" in. I expect small expansions it's the way it works, i just want more than 9!
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#22775
Whoa! HUGE news from Reaper! 7 Years ago  
My simple thought on these pieces is that I don't like the bases. Every time I bought a metal Repear mini before, I always glued it to a GW plastic round or square base because I didn't like the bases' being all different. . It seems that these new Reaper plastic parts have the same Reaper style bases. I like the consistiency of WOTC minis' bases(round and in different sizes). In my case, I am going to stick with WOTC and Rackham for now. I am also looking forward to the Rackham pre-paint fantasy stuff too. I really must side with Willypold, in that the Rackham pre-paint is really setting the pre-painted standard currently, regardless of the variety. I just wish that the Rackham AT-43 bases were closer to 1 inch.....a bit smaller.
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