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WOTC Gargantuan Blue Dragon out (my thoughts)
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TOPIC: WOTC Gargantuan Blue Dragon out (my thoughts)
#21143
WOTC Gargantuan Blue Dragon out (my thoughts) 7 Years, 7 Months ago  
I have a large assortment of Pewter Dragons...(the ones with gems as eyes) But I could never bring myself to paint them and am not sure if paint will take to them or if it will actually chip off anyway...they are the most rarely used monsters I have...I have only 2 painted dragons...usually their appearance in the campaign results in the death of one or more party members...so yes, it is rare...personally I don't like the plastic ones although I have seen some pretty kool ones posted here by L...
Stefan
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#21144
WOTC Gargantuan Blue Dragon out (my thoughts) 7 Years, 7 Months ago  
Stefan,

Yeah the Plastics (At least some of them), that Law was posting pics of were the ones produced by Tom McFarlane, and I have to say that they were pretty darn kewl, and a lot cheaper than the WotC stuff.

But since it is WotC that we are talking about now, I'll chime in on that...

I was gifted the Black gargantuan for X-mas, and then picked up the Blue for myself... (Still waiting for the Red to come back in stock)... And of course I have a few of the Huge and other sized plastics from WotC...

Anyway, I very rarely play with Dragons at all, and thus have only a few med. sized pewters from MANY years ago, when it was kewl to have a Draconic NPC pop up every now and then... In so many ways these Plastic big'uns are really as much Deus Ex-Machina as they are viable encounters (For combat anyway)... But I like them.

Number one reason being that they are a lot lighter, and more durable than are the Pewters... Number two because I do not have to paint them... But to be honest they are likely to live on my shelf and go unused for anything beyond inspiring fear in the hearts of my players...*EFG*...

I liked the Black better than I did the Blue, though they are both pretty kewl. Blue was about $10 cheaper of course so that was nice, and had I wanted to order online I also found the Blue for $26...

maj!
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#21145
WOTC Gargantuan Blue Dragon out (my thoughts) 7 Years, 7 Months ago  
......must......inspire.....fear........YYYYYaaaaaa!!!!!!!!

Just keep the collection on a shelf right behind your sitting spot when you DM...every time the party spends too much time searching for Secret Doors just look over your shoulder and stroke your beard in contemplation....
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#21146
WOTC Gargantuan Blue Dragon out (my thoughts) 7 Years, 7 Months ago  
I haven't picked up the Blue yet. I did see it. I think its another bad paint job. The black was Ok but the red and blue will need some paint work.
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#21147
WOTC Gargantuan Blue Dragon out (my thoughts) 7 Years, 7 Months ago  
I don't think the paint jobs on any of the dragons has been very good, primarily because they are too monochromatic and therefor lack detail. (Beyond that, I don't like the "official line" of dragons that WotC publishes on a very basic level, but that's a rant for another time.)

But I am curious about something.

How much would you (each/any of you) be willing to pay for an additional color?

For our purposes here, that includes shading -- anyone who paints miniatures will tell you that maroon and crimson (for example) are only two of the many shades of red, and are sold separately at hobby stores.
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#21148
WOTC Gargantuan Blue Dragon out (my thoughts) 7 Years, 7 Months ago  
I think the pricing on these things is totally and 100% wackyloodoodledoo.

The explanations -- limited market, part of a game system, size, complexity of paint apps -- frankly don't impress me. The McFarlane dragons have far more complex and interesting paint schemes, let alone sculpts, and while smaller than the Icons series, they're still pretty freaking large. At least, some of them are.

Now while the McF target audience is slightly larger than the gaming audience -- perhaps, though I'm not 100% convinced of this -- the fact is that we're paying for the stats and rules systems. In other words, we're paying for the priviledge of this being associated iwth a game. That's the only reason. They COULD charge less. The complexity of assembly is not an issue.

Still, since my local gaming shop has a discount system that allows me to get expensive stuff for free if I buy my regular stuff there, it isn't an issue for me. If I just buy regular boosters and Reaper minis and the occasional rule book from them, I can grab these dragons as freebies when they show up (and the more expensive rule books). It's a good system -- it keeps me coming back, at any rate.

L
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#21149
WOTC Gargantuan Blue Dragon out (my thoughts) 7 Years, 7 Months ago  
While I agree that the WotC dragons are overpriced, I will point out a couple of things.

First of all, the materials costs go up very quickly with increases in size. WotC dragons seem to start at about twice the size of McF, which means at least EIGHT times the plastic. I'm not sure how much the surface area increases, but it comes to a lot more paint. So the materials costs alone are WAY over a McF dragon.

Secondly, the WotC's packaging probably costs them a ton, both in material and in shipping. Not only does their packaging use two or three times as much cardboard and plastic, the box uses up a lot of space to accomodate those wings. You can fit a couple-few McF blister packs in the same amount of space, which means that per-unit shipping is much more expensive.

Finally, there may be production differences that account for some of the higher cost. Even in China, location of the plant, access to workers, cost of living near the plant, and many other factors can cause significant production cost differentials.

Custom picture frames used to be priced at 700% over the cost to the retailer. That's eight times what the retailer paid for them. The thing is, custom picture frames sell to a limited market AND they incur significant storage costs. Add to that the risk that some materials might NEVER sell, and you begin to realize that ONE successful sale has to cover ten sales that never happen. This is business in specialty markets. I doubt that their price could be brought down too much without making it impossible for WotC to turn a profit -- I don't think it is a matter of dropping the price and giving the customers a break, I think it is a matter of dropping the price and seeing them disappear from the market altogether.

I think the WotC dragons are overpriced, but that's mostly because I don't like them. I probably wouldn't buy them if they were a quarter of the price. I don't like the design, I don't like the paint job, I have no practical use for them, and I don't want to store them. I am not their target demographic.

But other people are. Now, assuming that the WotC dragons are priced "correctly", and that you want to buy one at the current price -- or, that you would want to buy one that had a better paint job at a higher price -- how much would you be willing to pay for an additional color?
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#21150
WOTC Gargantuan Blue Dragon out (my thoughts) 7 Years, 7 Months ago  
Hmmm... Perhaps $2-$3 But I already feel that they are just out of my comfort zone for buying them... I never would have entertained the idea of buying the Blue if I had not already been given the Black for X-mas... (Now I have to buy them because I hate not having a set)...*Chuckle*...

maj!
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#21151
WOTC Gargantuan Blue Dragon out (my thoughts) 7 Years, 7 Months ago  
I see what you're getting at, and frankly, from that perspective, I think they've struck the best compromise.

I wouldn't want to see them lose any paint apps -- I think they're at the bare minimum as it is, and any less would make the prospect of owning ANY of these far less appealing.

At the same time, I really couldn't justify buying them at any higher cost, either.

It's always easy enough to take a brush to these, IMHO, and while I do think that they're appeal is partly from being pre-painted, I don't think they become worthless if I notice areas for improvement.

The Icons and the prepainted plastics as a whole are all like this for me. I actually DO like the poses, outfits, paint jobs etc. that WOTC tends to use. I don't consider myself a really great painter, but I think I'm good, and I think that most of the Reaper minis I've painted sport far superior paint jobs to the WOTC releases. This, however, in no way makes me decide the WOTC figs aren't worth having. They frequently strike me as pretty darn neat in themselves, and as with the Icons, the sturdiness of them is a real bonus. Storing Reapers is a big pain in the butt, while I just toss my WOTC figs in a plastic bin and that's the end of it. I need about 1/5th the space to store an equal number of WOTC minis, just because I can drop them into a bin on top of each other and not worry about chipping, scraping, breaking, etc. That really is an important factor, knowing that these minis will be purely headache-free, pre-painted and durable. If I want to improve them, I always have that option, so really they're a no-lose proposition for me.

L
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#21152
WOTC Gargantuan Blue Dragon out (my thoughts) 7 Years, 7 Months ago  
All true L, and it lets a person have an army of 100+ orcs (or Dwarves, or Lizardmen, or Gnolls etc) pretty easily.
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#21153
WOTC Gargantuan Blue Dragon out (my thoughts) 7 Years, 7 Months ago  
All true L, and it lets a person have an army of 100+ orcs (or Dwarves, or Lizardmen, or Gnolls etc) pretty easily.
Yup, the Army potential is very good with WotC... And there are some neat variations too, an example being all of the different types of basic Skeletons, many have the same basic stats, but are of different races... So that not all of your encounters need be the same exact mini, or even all Human which in the past was all to common. Though I doubt there will ever be the number of different say "Dwarven Skeletons" as their are Human, at least they are themselves different... If that makes sense..

maj!
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#21154
WOTC Gargantuan Blue Dragon out (my thoughts) 7 Years, 7 Months ago  
I agree that it is nice to have things like dwarven skeletons or Bulettes, etc available. I guess the chip on my shoulder about WOTC minis is that they didn't release them in metal format or even allow Iron Wind to re-release the old Parth sculptings.
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