Welcome, Guest
Please Login or Register.    Lost Password?

Boy, some people are hostile
(1 viewing) (1) Guest
Go to bottomPage: 123456
TOPIC: Boy, some people are hostile
#16646
Boy, some people are hostile 8 Years ago  
I went hunting around for info on the mystery set -- for the EXTRA curious and impatient, the info is out there, now that the ad in Dungeon has hit -- and I found a forum where one of our own asked politely about the ad. If I'd been registered, I'd have asked myself.

And instead all he got was a lot of people being rude and bashing DF. I was astonished. It is amazing how rude and hostile some people can be.

Man, I feel glad to be back here. *shudder*

Anyhoo, on the plus side, I'm REALLY looking forward to the mystery set now. Put me down for two, right off the bat....

L
Law
Minotaur Lord
Posts: 3209
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
The administrator has disabled public write access.
"In every real man a child is hidden that wants to play."

-- F. Nietzsche
 
#16647
Boy, some people are hostile 8 Years ago  
Count myself into the EXTRA curious and EXTRA impatient friend! :-)

I've searched now that I've read your post (I did it before but with no success at all... :-( ), and now I YES! have found info about the add!!! thank you very much, without your hint, I would have not found it.

I need 1 or 2 of this sets... mmm...

Pdta: I agree... some people are very agresive out there!!! o.O
arsthein
Ogre
Posts: 583
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Gender: Male Location: Mordrid - Spain Birthday: 06/22
The administrator has disabled public write access.
I want my DF Spiderweb Accesories Set!!! ^O^U
 
#16648
Boy, some people are hostile 8 Years ago  
Without getting into the actual bashing, were they upset with the company or its products?
jackattack
Minotaur Lord
Posts: 2554
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Location: USA
The administrator has disabled public write access.
 
#16649
Boy, some people are hostile 8 Years ago  
The only specific complaint was cost, which I hear often. There was a general feeling that the price was too high, and once again, a preference for HA. I really do notice that in many forums, once DF is brought up, there is often a hostile contingent of HA fans who feel the need to trash DF for its price. I've done the math -- HA is only cheaper after a LOT of work has been done, and the time and energy investment is IMMENSE. It really isn't comparable at all, it's like comparing building a model of a TIE fighter with buying a Hasbro toy at the local toy shop.

More, though, was a general obnoxiousness. Someone asked about the ad, and someone else replied, in essence, "We don't give a @#$#@"

It was really a slap in the face.

L
Law
Minotaur Lord
Posts: 3209
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
The administrator has disabled public write access.
"In every real man a child is hidden that wants to play."

-- F. Nietzsche
 
#16650
Boy, some people are hostile 8 Years ago  
I'm sorry to hear that they were so rude.

I hear some grousing about DF prices as well, but if you look at individual items (or just bother to divide the price of a set by the number of items in it) then it's very easy to see that DF has set their prices at a very reasonable profit margin. Walk into a Hallmark store that sells those little painted statues and do a quick comparison of weight and cost, and you'll get a better idea of how much they COULD be charging for their products.

I suppose it is easy to turn one's disappointment at not being able to afford something into contempt for the thing, but it is kind of an infantile reaction. [sigh] Thank goodness all of us on the Dwarven Forge forums are so mature and enlightened. :lol:
jackattack
Minotaur Lord
Posts: 2554
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Location: USA
The administrator has disabled public write access.
 
#16651
Boy, some people are hostile 8 Years ago  
I guess this is what seperates the boys from the men. >;-}P~

I like quality toys and if I have to pay a bit more for that quality, so be it. I poked around too out of extreme curiousity and saw a thread similar to what you described above. I just chalked it up to "wolf pack mentality." It just takes one person to create a spark and then all of the unhappy masses feed the flames. The crazy thing is though, to this day, you don't see the GIANT flame wars that used to take place on the old BBSs (Bulletin Board Systems) and Usenet like in the early 90's (before "netiquette" became a popular term). For those of you who were on the 'Net back then, you probably know what I'm talking about. These threads were legendary in their incendiary properties.
Dante
Ogre
Posts: 855
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Location: The 9th Circle and Climbing...
The administrator has disabled public write access.
"Thus it is willed where everything may be
simply if it is willed."

Dante's Inferno Canto III (77-80)
 
#16652
Boy, some people are hostile 8 Years ago  
Yeah L i saw that same thread and went looking for the same info.

My favorite was the guy who masked swears to say no one cared about the add, i almost registered to say not so.

When ever anyone who was says that they can do exactly the same with HA far cheaper really makes me wonder about how much these people put a value on their time. He said could do it for a 1/5 of the price, maybe maybe it is possible to have materials be cheaper but i value my time very much and Hirst Arts sucks up a Ton of time to do, making it no more cheaper than DF.
Ghenghis Ska
Minotaur Lord
Posts: 2373
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Location: Northeast CT, USA
The administrator has disabled public write access.
More Sci Fi Please, request a DEAD END for Sci Fi Passages
Classes of the Old Republic
Some RPG and mini stats including the Exodus and AAT (along with good source of a Mini scale version of the AAT).
 
#16653
Boy, some people are hostile 8 Years ago  
A few quick remarks:

1. The cost of DF v. HA is, in my opinion, radically misconstrued 90% of the time. Even if you decide to leave out issues like energy and effort, and simply look at the dollars spent, it takes a long time to make a difference. If you buy three $35 molds, you've already spent what you would have spent on a DF set. Now you make a lot of pieces, you're gonna be spending $ on plaster. If you get some cheap, buying in bulk, then maybe you're only in for $10 on top of the $105 you've already spent. You may not go that route, though, in which case a box of plaster can cost $7 and you'll need probably three to make as much as that $100 DF set would have given you. That's another $20. You're now in for $125, without counting cost of paint and brushes and glue (I'll assume anyone who does this already has enough of those to leave that out)

So, at best, allowing that you won't mind the time and effort involved, you've spent THE SAME AMOUNT for your HA. You haven't saved a dime.


Now, granted -- if you keep those molds for several years, you can get more and more out of them, for only the cost of new plaster. Eventually, you will have lots of things. Several buildings that originally average out to $40 each at first will soon represent about $10, then even less. It can work out -- but only after a LOT of time.

The biggest issue for me is space -- HA is cheaper only for those who CAN store a lot of terrain. Most people cannot. If you don't have room for it, then you will only have a small collection -- and a small collection of HA buildings, as I said, costs THE SAME as a small DF collection. The cost is only less for people who want TONS of terrain.


THEN you can talk about other issues -- time, energy, effort. For me, the durability of DF is a huge factor to consider -- most of my HA pieces have chipped or broken and required attention, including EVERYTHING I've ever sold to anyone. My only non-positive feedback on eBay (it was neutral, at least, not negative) was from someone whose HA pieces broke during shipping when I mailed them off.

No, HA is not necessarily cheaper, and it is certainly less durable.

Finally, another huge issue -- HA is for people WHO LIKE TO BUILD TERRAIN. This is really like comparing people who build models with people who buy toy cars. Not everyone actually enjoys mixing and pouring plaster, designing buildings, assembling, painting. I happen to enjoy it a bit, though the mixing of plaster is messy and time-consuming. (incidentally, you can cut time down a LOT if you buy the same mold five or six times, allowing you to cast many more bricks at once -- but that once again makes HA far more expensive) But for anyone who doesn't enjoy this, it's totally absurd to tell them they can save $ by getting HA. It's like telling someone who doesn't have $10 to go see the new Pirates movie that they could save money by getting together with their friends and acting out a movie for themselves. Um, what if that sounds stupid and not fun to me? Same goes for casting HA pieces -- if it sounds like a waste of time, but I still want the final product, then it hardly counts as a solution.


I really enjoy HA, and for people who enjoy building things, it's a fantastic product. It certainly gives you a lot of options and a ton of opportunities to create your own DF supplements. But it isn't for everyone, and it ISN'T as cheap as its fans insist.

PLUS, I really can't get over how rude some of them can be. I've seen it tons of times. It kinda sickens me. I tried to make peace by writing a DF/HA comparison review over at Terrainosaur, but it seems to have changed nothing -- frequently, when that review is pointed out on message boards, I just see more rude HA fans talking about how much they prefer HA.

Ah well.


2. The mystery set -- HOLY @!$@#!! I won't say anythign to ruin the surprise, but I will say that I really want it, I almost certainly will buy two of them, and I can't wait to get to it! I am REALLY happy we don't have to wait too long for it, at least if all goes well. At least it isn't PLANNED as a December release -- we should, ideally, have this in our grubby mitts by the end of the month! Man, oh man, is this set neat.

I wish I could say more, but I won't. Tuesday, Tuesday, Tuesday. I'll have a lot to say then.

But this set really made my day. This is a very happy time for DF fans.

L
Law
Minotaur Lord
Posts: 3209
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
The administrator has disabled public write access.
"In every real man a child is hidden that wants to play."

-- F. Nietzsche
 
#16654
Boy, some people are hostile 8 Years ago  
I checked out one of the forum pages on Paizo.com. L is absolutely right, the level of venom there is intolerable. An innocent question gets slammed by someone with too much anger boiling in his veins. Another person snidely remarks how he could do the same thing with Hirst Arts molds for "1/5 the price."

By comparison, this forum is friendly and affirming. I like that!

I'll say this about Hirst molds. I don't have any, but I really like the idea. If I had the time, I'd invest in a bunch and use them. But time is something I rarely have, and so it doesn't work for me.

Master Maze is made of high quality resin, hand painted, and comes in styrofoam lined boxes that make perfect storage containers. IT'S WORTH THE MONEY.

If I had more time, I'd get some HA molds to make pieces that Dwarven Forge does not. I'd still buy Master Maze, because it's gorgeous, it works, and I like the boxes for storage.

My slogan says it all for me.
Kradlo
Minotaur
Posts: 1006
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Gender: Male Location: Byron Center, MI Birthday: 10/20
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Kradlo
Make Mine Master Maze!
 
#16655
Boy, some people are hostile 8 Years ago  
Its apples and oranges IMHO. You really can't compare DIY terrain to finished pieces. Already painted/finished terrain items are really the best option for someone like me who is trying to balance family and hobby. I would rather spend my time working on game content than molding ten thousand little bricks. I am not knocking HA, it looks like fun. I just don't have the time.

p.s. That was me being abused on the other forums. I am one of those curious people that couldn't stand the fact that the secret was out there and I didn't know the details. I litterally drove all over town trying to find the magazine. My game store actually got in the issue before someone finally posted the answer. Go figure...
philip
Orc
Posts: 208
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Location: Pensacola, Florida.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Oblivion is in the eye of the Beholder.
Viva La Blipdoolpoolp!!!

youdidnttouchthatdidyou.blogspot.com
 
#16656
Boy, some people are hostile 8 Years ago  
I've never been into the "M/F Age?" forum approach (Male? Female? How old) but I get the feeling that most of the folks here are probably late 20s to mid 40s with at least one Viet Nam vet (which would put him at least in his early to mid 50s)--which is a pretty good range of ages.

My feeling about the posters over on Paizo was that they're teens to maybe early 20s judging by the phrases used ("Are you being snarky or trying to face me?" type stuff). That and the fact that is seems to be a massive free-for-all with no basic respect for posters' serious questions.

It's a shame, philip, that you had to have that crap thrown at you like that.
Dante
Ogre
Posts: 855
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Location: The 9th Circle and Climbing...
The administrator has disabled public write access.
"Thus it is willed where everything may be
simply if it is willed."

Dante's Inferno Canto III (77-80)
 
#16657
Boy, some people are hostile 8 Years ago  
Like GS, I too almost registered at some gaming forums I visit semi-regularly to post against anti-DF threads.
Two had really rude threads that the moderators did not even bother to comment on.
One forum had a moderator speak up though and close the anti-DF thread.

Dante is right about a seemingly vast difference in average ages with this forum compared to others, but we still have the spoiled teeny-boppers here too occasionally.
Plus, I am old enough to remember the old BBS days and the absolute firestorms that would take over the whole BBS for days, if not weeks, on end.
They made Dresden or Tokyo look like small bonfires. :D

We all agree that the most common complaint we hear about Master Maze in our gaming environments is the price which I agree is not horrible.
(please Stefan and Jeff - no price increases though in the next couple years please!)

Do any of the rest of you hear any other complaints?
I hear complaints about:
lack of versatility (some of these folks are kooks [fanatic HA fans], but I hear this word used by veteran gamers, 2+ decades experience, as well);
lack of flexibility (the absolute need for an Advanced Builder-style sets for caverns, DoE and Sci-Fi which most gamers telling me this say they do not believe these will ever happen);
large numbers of differing pieces that have not and probably will never be done (the complaints about the Sci-Fi furnishings set seem to have moved to this sort of complaint recently);
desired genres (yes YC, you are not the only person out there near death waiting for a Master Maze sewer system);
AND those are only round out the top five most common complaints I hear.

Finally, please do not get me going on about Hirst Arts and the cost savings that their fans go on about.
The company encourages the comments too IMO {if I placed the 'H' in there I would both/either have folks here rolling around laughing and/or calling me a liar}.
My big problems with HA terrain are the two main ones that Law already covered:
*Room {where to put it after completion}
*Fragility {here is a sad tale}
All that work put in and it all can go up in dust and shrapnel the moment some careless gamer comes by and knocks the table.
I have seen this cataclysm occur; it was the only time I have ever seen a Marine have to really hold back and not cry out of complete despair and self-pity (85 hours of painstaking work).
On the other hand, it was not the first time I have ever seen a Marine having to be held back by his buddies from killing some stupid fool who really deserved mauling for self-absorption.
The idiot gamer had the mis-shapen cojones to blame the folks at the table that the cataclysm happened instead of his knocking into said table on the way by.
That really revved the motors involved!

I make terrain myself along with using Master Maze, but I limit my plaster use to only Woodland Scenics rock molds which results are usually embedded into extruded styrofoam (the pink or blue stuff - not the expanded styofoam, the white or green pebbly fall-a-part junk) to form what I am making, which foam gives the plaster some protection.
HA fan(atics) are just too ridiculous for me.

Nothing stands up as far as durability like Master Maze and that is a major issue with me, my family and all of our moves.
Ainsty and Armorcast are durable, but they have to be self-painted and said paint-job is not as durable as Master Maze's.
This makes Master Maze the prime terrain product we here buy and therefore the reason I harp on so often getting more out stuff out for Sci-Fi and Cavern.

Could we please make 2007 the year for Sci-Fi please?!?!
Gamma [large quantity of furnishings];
Delta [Advanced Builder-style set - maybe even a double layer set?]
Epsilon [more terrain - there is a huge list of stuff over on these threads:
http://www.dwarvenforge.com/dwarvenforums/viewtopic.php?id=994
&
http://www.dwarvenforge.com/dwarvenforums/viewtopic.php?id=741]
Maybe 2007 could be the year for maturing the Sci-Fi Master Maze into a full system, yes?
RabidFox*
Ogre
Posts: 962
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Location: Western U.S.A.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
SF: Starter(3), Passage(2), Alpha(7), Beta(2) someday soon;
Cavern: Cavern, Cavernous Passages, many individual pieces, Cavernous River & Wall and Cavernous Lake someday soon;
Fantasy: Room & Passages, Room, Octagonal Room, Wicked Additions I&II, Adv. Builder, Diagonal Walls Set, Dungeon Accessories, Medieval Furniture, many individual pieces.
 
Go to topPage: 123456
Your Cart:
0 Items Order Total: $0.00

0 Product
$0.00



Login to see your account info

Once you login you will be able to see your different account areas here, order history, shipping information and your account information.