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Im back! - And actually Buying DF now!
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TOPIC: Im back! - And actually Buying DF now!
#9875
Im back! - And actually Buying DF now! 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
I think the problem I have is it looks bland to me. I will wait and see what else comes out before I attack it like that, but as it is, it just needs more for me. Its not a fault on DFs side, its a problem with the genre. Ship interriors are boring repedative places.
MrThou
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#9876
Im back! - And actually Buying DF now! 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
Did you ever see any of the pics I put up? They're gone now... :(

Anyhoo, you are right - and RF would agree -- that the SF stuff needs furnishings. I put up a lot of pics with various kinds of SF accessories and it looked pretty darn amazing...
I'll see if I can dig anything up to flesh out the image library post-hack...

L
Law
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"In every real man a child is hidden that wants to play."

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#9877
Im back! - And actually Buying DF now! 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
Did you ever see any of the pics I put up? They're gone now... :(

Anyhoo, you are right - and RF would agree -- that the SF stuff needs furnishings. I put up a lot of pics with various kinds of SF accessories and it looked pretty darn amazing...
I'll see if I can dig anything up to flesh out the image library post-hack...

L

Id love to see :D
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#9878
Im back! - And actually Buying DF now! 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
Really this is True of the Fantasy as Well if You Think about it, DF is a Fancy 3D Battle Mat... It is the "Extras" like Furniture, Special Floors and Other Odds and Ends that Dress things Up... Sci-Fi is really Going to Benefit a lot from the Theme Packs being Designed...
MyLordVoid
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#9879
Im back! - And actually Buying DF now! 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
Really this is True of the Fantasy as Well if You Think about it, DF is a Fancy 3D Battle Mat... It is the "Extras" like Furniture, Special Floors and Other Odds and Ends that Dress things Up... Sci-Fi is really Going to Benefit a lot from the Theme Packs being Designed...
But it looks more varried out of the box without the dressing.
Like a good steak is tasty without the A-1 sauce, while a mediocre one needs the A-1 :p
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#9880
Im back! - And actually Buying DF now! 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
I really go back and forth about this a LOT.

I remember, when I first saw a DF setup, my eye went right to the demon arch, the mermaid fountain, the secret doors, the spiral staircases.

After I picked up a WA set, I still didn't have any basic sets -- my FLGS was sold out. While I waited, and ordered online, I was thinking to myself "I'm all excited about these sets, but they are actually kinda basic -- just walls, no special frills." It seemed like I was going to be disappointed, because what had me excited were all the flourishes.

Then when they came, I got very addicted to rearranging them and making different setups by just changing walls and corners and so forth. That was a BLAST.

So I don't know, I go back and forth. In some ways, this stuff is ALL cool, and it always makes a great backdrop for figures. In others, it's really designed to be used with cool accessories, and they'll always be what grabs your eye most.

That's probably why DoE is so popular -- it's ALL flourish! Accessories, in some ways, would get in the WAY. I mean, some things like candelabras, thrones, etc. would look neat. But tables and chairs? Bookshelves? I don't know -- they'd have to be designed to fit into the walls specifically, not free-standing, because right now, things would look cluttered with them. IMHO, anyway.

I think both SF and Fantasy need accessories. The difference may be, in my mind, that fantasy needs LESS. If you put a chest and some barrels or something in an otherwise empty room, you have a neat storage room or antechamber. With SF, if you did that (and you COULDN'T, because there ARE no SF crates from DF yet...) it would still look empty, it would still not look like anything. Fantasy rooms can be largely empty and still be ROOMS. Sci-fi rooms can't really be empty. It just doesn't work.

Another difference -- Fantasy DF has more architectural options right now. It may not feel like it needs furniture or accessories because of things like the spiral stairs, the mermaid fountain, the traps, and so forth. With SF, you pretty much just have regular walls. There are the ramps and the columns, and they are REALLY cool, and you have the removeable-panel floors, also WICKED cool. But you don't have as many "basic" options as you do with fantasy, so the need for furniture and dressings is greater. Just a thought.

I picked up Grendel accessories for just this reason -- now I have too many choices! Sick bay, control center, hangar/cargo bay, it's all good. I can't wait to see the room-specific theme packs DF has planned....

L
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#9881
Im back! - And actually Buying DF now! 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
L hit the nail on the head there I think. But I like my steak thought more... *drool*
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#9882
Im back! - And actually Buying DF now! 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
L hit the nail on the head there I think. But I like my steak thought more... *drool*
Meat 'n' Potatoes Man, eh?!?
Best Canadian potatoes I have tasted are from Manitoba.

L mentioned my constant refrain to Stefan and Jeff for SF furnishings and that is true.
In the forum section Sci-Fi Master Maze Products there is a thread: www.dwarvenforge.com/dwarvenforums/viewtopic.php?id=741
The Poll is gone because of the new forum software, but we had talked about a lot of ideas about what should be in the first SF furnishings set.
I further troubled the waters by asking about two other rooms: Armory & Repair Bay

As far as the poll, the Command Center was leading the pack just before the hack with 17 votes, Engineering had 13 and both Sickbay and Crew Quarters each had 2 votes.
I do not know if you had voted in the poll, but this thread is interesting.

I honestly feel, since DF has left the miniature pretty-box boxes behind and gone back to the white boxes, they can now do two rooms at a time or at very least some serious work one one room at a time.
What I would really like to see them do is to do the SF furnishing sets in the Fantasy R&P- or Cavern-style boxes that have two trays.
That package style would really be cooking with fusion as far as SF furnishings.
My main concern with furnishings is that we get enough stuff out and that it appeals to both the Vac-Head and the Gro-Po.
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SF: Starter(3), Passage(2), Alpha(7), Beta(2) someday soon;
Cavern: Cavern, Cavernous Passages, many individual pieces, Cavernous River & Wall and Cavernous Lake someday soon;
Fantasy: Room & Passages, Room, Octagonal Room, Wicked Additions I&II, Adv. Builder, Diagonal Walls Set, Dungeon Accessories, Medieval Furniture, many individual pieces.
 
#9883
Im back! - And actually Buying DF now! 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
While I Would Love to See a Box Full 'O Furnishings' A Double Box let's say... How much would it Cost... I Mean I would ALWAYS rather By a Larger More Expensive Set that Has Enough Stuff in it that I Do not Have to Buy more than one or Two, but with the original Release of the Dungeon Furniture Set at nearly $40 (At my then FLGS, Where I Purchased all of my Early DF)... I Kn ow the Price has Come Down but that is Circumstantial... There was Not "That" much in the Set, Could You Imagine a Set that Had 6,7 or 8 times as Much Stuff... Man I'd Love it, but How Much would that End up Costing per Set? $250? $300? It is always Going to be A Delicate Balance, More Items in a Package Brings Packageing Prices Down but may Significantly raise the Per Package Price anyway... I Dunno' I Guess I Would Still Rather Have a HUGE Set with a Lot of Elements... But I also recognize that I am an Avid Fan and Possibly Collector... If I Was Just Starting Out i might Feel Overwhelmed by a Set that might Cost Several Hundred Dollars...?
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#9884
Im back! - And actually Buying DF now! 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
MLV, as just starting out, and paying several hundred for my first set (Note: Yes I am aware I got gypped...), it doenst bother me. But Ive been interested in the products for a long time. I finally have the money so I'm jumping in head first.

But any other person would see the $300 as something they dont need and can build upto. I fear im going to be all mad because I dont have enough pieces with my starting sets. Though, I cannot say. The list of pieces doenst look like much, but the pictures make it look like it is... Things like that scare me off way more then the cost. Its a quality product and the smarter people will realize that. Lets face it, where gamers, we have some smart people (Note: We also seem to have some of the stupidist..). Its no different then any other hobby really. Warhammer for example. Costs a hell of alot more then Dwarven Forge. Yet it attracts new customers all the time.

Im rambling and lost my point. ive been up for to long. But I shall have my Den in two weeks! And my Cavern passages on friday! MWhahhahhhahhah
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#9885
Im back! - And actually Buying DF now! 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
Both of you, MLV and Mr. Thou, have very valid points.

Big investments are daunting and intimidating for new gamers IMHO.
On the other hand MLV, how many times have I been hammered on on this very forum for that
very sentiment?
Additionally, how many times have I been told that beginning gamers do not buy Master Maze so
why should we care?
Oh well, y’all must be wrong because I was wrong back then, right?

The Fantasy furnishings are currently selling @ DF on-line for $29.
That is with the fancy packaging and all.
Plus, these sets contain 14, 15 or 23 items depending on the set.
So, if we move to the simple white box with all of the items just placed in styro trays, would that
not move the price down to at least $25/amount from a fancy package, yes?

If we aim for a SF furnishings set that has 6-8 times the amount of furnishings, that would result
in a set that only costs $150-200.
Comparing that amount of items (~100) to an identical amount from someplace like Ainsty, my
proposed SF furnishings set would be quite economical.
Just one of each of Ainsty's Base Camp series items comes up to ~$106 and that is only ~45
unpainted items.
So, if DF aimed at a SF furnishings set that would come out at about ~$150, I think that would
sell well as long as the number of items is at least 65-75 items.

That would make it the most expensive set DF ever released, but that could be the set that places
SF Master Maze on the galactic map.
How many sales of other SF Master Maze sets would this set trigger?
Anyway, this proposed set would certainly be more economical than many items from Games
Workshop; MrThou is right about that for sure.

So what say you Stefan & Jeff?!?
RabidFox*
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SF: Starter(3), Passage(2), Alpha(7), Beta(2) someday soon;
Cavern: Cavern, Cavernous Passages, many individual pieces, Cavernous River & Wall and Cavernous Lake someday soon;
Fantasy: Room & Passages, Room, Octagonal Room, Wicked Additions I&II, Adv. Builder, Diagonal Walls Set, Dungeon Accessories, Medieval Furniture, many individual pieces.
 
#9886
Im back! - And actually Buying DF now! 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
Right or Wrong, My Point was Simply that it is a Delicate Balance Between Content (Quantity, and Quality), and Price... DF Wants to Make a Profit of Somesort after all...

But I would Very much like to Hear Stefan and Jeffs Opinions About How they Make that Judgement Call... Is this System still Being Fine Tuned or Is there a Solid "Formula" in Place?

I am willing to Go out on a Limb and Say that Smaller Pieces are Probably Going to Cost More in the Long Run, because Each Piece that Has to Be "Handled" is Going to Add something to the Price... Larger Pieces are Easy to Paint though they may take a little Longer... (And this is Somthing that I Do Know a little About as I Have Worked on Staff for a Company that Painted Piece Meal Items)... So I Think that the 65-75 Piece Set that Rabid Fox is Talking about may well Cost more than the $200 Estimated above... I Do not say this simply to Argue, but rather to Point out that If it Were to Cost More Although I Might well Pay For it I Have My Doubts that Enough Others Would...

Now that Having Been Said, How Kewl would it be If There were Say 4 or 5 of the Sci-Fi Furnishings Sets (Command, Engineering Etc)... If They were Released Seperately Initially, but then Once the Molds were Alreadu In Existence, a Limited Edition HUGE set that Contained all of the Little Sets, with Perhaps a Few "Special" Extra Pieces thrown in as a Bonus?
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