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Square Grid and Dwarven Forge
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TOPIC: Square Grid and Dwarven Forge
#51438
Square Grid and Dwarven Forge 1 Year, 4 Months ago  

I could not find an answer to this question so I apologize if it exists somewhere.

I was curious to know just how a mini, npc, or player crosses through certain Dwarven Forge tiles.

More in particularly, doors and half square tiles.

Does the square occupied by a door frame count as a playable space?

For example, lets say I make 3 spaces near a door (normal or narrow door, either one) and for my third space where does it land? On the door frame space or on the next visible square tile past the door?

Same question goes to the half square tiles on certain DF pieces.

Do these count as a full playable spaces?
Methrid
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#51443
Re:Square Grid and Dwarven Forge 1 Year, 4 Months ago  
The official, definitive answer is: There is no official, definitive answer.

The various partial squares, and squares occupied by doors and certain other accessories, are certainly equivalent to playable squares on paper, and thus they are meant to be playable in 3D terrain. However, as you have experienced, the realities of 3D terrain can make proper mini placement difficult.

Some groups put the mini as close to the intended spot as possible and play on. This gets a little dicey if there are a lot of miniatures in play, or if anyone at the table has a low tolerance for overlapping the miniature bases or letting miniatures get too close to each other.

Other groups declare all partial squares off-limits, ruling that the nearest full square is actually against the wall. This also allows small accessory bits (chests, chairs, etc.) to be placed around the perimeter without interfering with other miniatures. Squares that are occupied as doors are considered "freebies" that don't count against movement, range, or weapon reach. This does make it difficult to reproduce some maps.

Sorry I can't give you a more helpful answer than that.
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#51446
Re:Square Grid and Dwarven Forge 1 Year, 4 Months ago  
Yes, that:
The official, definitive answer is: There is no official, definitive answer.

In our gaming group, we count every partial tile as if they were complete for game purposes, just like if we were using graph paper with walls as thin as a drawn line. I would say that 95% of the time, this is not a problem for minis placement as they overlap a little in other tiles. Regarding doors, since they are simply standing on top of existing complete tiles, we just place minis where those tiles are.
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#51448
Re:Square Grid and Dwarven Forge 1 Year, 4 Months ago  
Generally nodding my head with what is posted above.
This is more of a general DM's question than any terrain question. Same goes for cardboard cut outs, battle maps, Hirst etc.

You can get 20 people in a 10 foot by 10 foot room. But if two of them start fighting with swords, most will want to leave or get hit..

As a DM I let people huddle up when out of combat.
For example:
Party prepare to open a new door behind which they are convinced are 'bad guys'.
Everyone has weapons drawn, standing on their square 'battle ready' - Then the brave Fighter opens door.
There seem to be no risk and everyone relaxes a bit.
The Thief wants to go ahead. He is at the back of the party (Typical!)
I do not then make everyone play a Chinese tile puzzle to let him get past. He can just get past. Plenty of gaps..
Sure - the guys with big packs strapped to their backs + a crossbow + a shield + other treasure can get to be bulky.. Then as a DM you use these situations to say "Your character gets stuck" or "You all hear the metal part of a cross bow scraping along the wall that makes a high-pitched noise that carries" or "Make a dex roll to see if you poke anyone as you barge past"

Another way is to change the scale in some environments and rooms:
My players like to shop and visit the stores and then rest and eat in the Inn's or Tavern.
So they can all bundle in - I change the scale. (Inside this Tavern each Square is 5 x 5 foot or even 2.5 foot per square. Works well & lets you have a party sit around a table in a sensible amount of space. )
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#51453
Re:Square Grid and Dwarven Forge 1 Year, 4 Months ago  
I think your best bet as a DM is to make sure that whichever way you choose to go, you make it clear to the players before the dice start rolling. Some things don't always have a clear best answer, but past experience tells me it saves a lot of trouble with some players if things are laid out off the bat rather than on the fly.

If you're a player and your DM has not made it clear, I would just ask before things get rolling for pretty much the same reasons above. The above posts give several reasonable ways to handle it, I would pick what works for you and make it the house rule.
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#51462
Re:Square Grid and Dwarven Forge 1 Year, 4 Months ago  
Those are really good points!

I really enjoyed the role playing suggestion relating to the size of the characters and bringing in a couple of checks to see if they can manage to fit through certain confined spaces or pass through quietly. The screeching of bulky armor or exposed weapons was a good one too!

I'm considering allowing the smaller minis such as rats, and other smaller sized minis to have full play control over those smaller squares.

I concur with laying down the ground rules about these spaces in advance.

Good points indeed. Thanks guys.
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#52128
Re:Square Grid and Dwarven Forge 1 Year, 4 Months ago  
I allow characters to be in the partial squares, but give a penalty to actions while in them; in d20 terms, I count them as squeezing (-4 to attacks). This gives players more ways to interact tactically with the environment, such as push enemies into walls to give them penalties, etc.
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#52210
Re:Square Grid and Dwarven Forge 1 Year, 4 Months ago  
That's a really good idea!

Thanks! I think I will do this. What about giving creatures / npcs that fit snug inside these squares no penalty? I.E. rats, ect. Sounds reasonable?
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#52218
Re:Square Grid and Dwarven Forge 1 Year, 4 Months ago  
I would think a rat or other small denizen would have less issues.
Imagine putting your back to a wall or even a shoulder. Now imagine swinging a weapon.
I'd think a creature with claws and a bite that fits in the square would be far more effective
than someone swinging a Longsword or a mace or drawing a bow?
Ow, elbow!
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#52219
Re:Square Grid and Dwarven Forge 1 Year, 4 Months ago  
1 or 2 points less per size class, perhaps.
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#57342
Re:Square Grid and Dwarven Forge 11 Months ago  
LordDust wrote:
as a DM... make it clear to the players before the dice start rolling...

If you're a player and your DM has not made it clear, I would just ask before things get rolling...
Very sound advice. Sounds like a lot of folks like slinging penalties just because someone wants to be able to take the actions they've been waiting five to ten minutes to get to.
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#57366
Re:Square Grid and Dwarven Forge 11 Months ago  
Fu-Man Chu wrote:
I allow characters to be in the partial squares, but give a penalty to actions while in them; in d20 terms, I count them as squeezing (-4 to attacks). This gives players more ways to interact tactically with the environment, such as push enemies into walls to give them penalties, etc.

Yes, I rule the same way, unless it's a weapon like a crossbow or bow...anything one has to "wield" anything that requires swinging...like a sword will cause penalties (-2) in my case if you are backed against a wall...also a defensive penalty of +2(2 points up or down depending on what system you use-it's a penalty)...
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