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MM and player/character knowledge
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TOPIC: MM and player/character knowledge
#3102
MM and player/character knowledge 10 Years, 5 Months ago  
I reciently bought a Room and Passage set (and plan on buying more sets as soon as I get the money together :) ). I've not yet gotten to use it much in my campaign, so I thought I'd as for some advice.

Do you find the MM causes problems with players using knowledge their characters wouldn't have (such as layout of the dungeon, location of traps, secret doors, etc)? Do you take any steps to prevent this, or just decide to not worry about it?
Aconite
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#3103
MM and player/character knowledge 10 Years, 5 Months ago  
Aconite,

There are Several Schools of thought on this Issue and it is a VERY legitimate Question...

1) Construction/ Cardboard- In this Version of Hide and Seek, the GM Lays out all or Most of the Dungeon before Hand, and then Just Covers individual Areas (Rooms Etc), with Card Board or Similar revealing them only as the Party or one of their Agents Achieves Line of Site by Opening a Door, Turning a Corner Etc... (This Can be Done Either with Rooms Being Fully Stocked or Not)...

2) Empty Maze- This is Fine for Areas where the Players have Been Before and Already Kinda Know their way around... Just Set up before Play but only Add Details Like Monsters, Treasure Etc as they are Encountered... (NOTE: You do lose some wow factor if you do this with a Layout the Players have never Seen before...)

3) Build as You Go- Now there is Mucho Controversy about building the Dungeon as You Go... Especially for Larger Areas... If You Do Choose this Method you can always send every body outside/ out of the room while you set up new areas... or Litterally Build on the Fly... Either way I reccomend having your Pieces Easy to access before the Game as it can be tedious for players to wait around while the GM Consults Notes and Maps Looking to see how many 2x2 Floors thay need to complete a Room... Sometimes it helps to have a Deputy GM just for Helping Set up (And Clean up), in between "Scenes"...


There are Likely other ways of doing this as well, but I hope this Gives you Some Ideas... Happy GMing....
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#3104
MM and player/character knowledge 10 Years, 4 Months ago  
A similar topic covers secret doors/passages/rooms. My solution is this: I decide beforehand what secret passages I will place or not place. Then I decide where to place some fake secret passages. Then I build the dungeon beforehand, but not placing any secret doors. Thus, players are never sure, if the build secret passage is a real one or a fake. I their characters find a secret door, I replace the wall with a secret door tile (and build the passage if I hadn't it build before). Thus, player and character knowledge can be somewhat distinguished. Any other suggestions?
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#3105
MM and player/character knowledge 10 Years, 4 Months ago  
I've found it all depends on how much your group tends to metagame. If they're good about staying in the moment and in character, then pre building is fine.

If the group (consciously or unconsciously) looks ahead too much, try pre-building the maze with a few key features changed. Put doors where walls are, walls where doors are, change passages, and so forth. If someone is metagaming, they'll get cautious real quick when they find out the door they thought was at the end of a corridor is really a dead end.
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#3106
MM and player/character knowledge 10 Years, 4 Months ago  
Yukon,

I Like this Idea... Especially if a Group has Played an adventure before (Say with another GM, in which Case Really Moving Corridors and Rooms is a Fine Idea)...
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#3107
MM and player/character knowledge 10 Years, 4 Months ago  
Then, just when they get used to the idea that the maze will change, run an adventure where nothing changes at all. Even leave the secret doors in where the secret doors are!

:twisted:
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#3108
MM and player/character knowledge 10 Years, 4 Months ago  
Deffinately Keep 'Em Guessing... <Smirk>...
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#3109
MM and player/character knowledge 10 Years, 4 Months ago  
Another thing people with MM do with secret doors is don't use any of the secret door pieces until they find the secret door, then replace the normal piece with the secret door piece.
You can also play mind games with them with the traps. If you have a corner trap, put a normal corner down, when the trap is sprung, replace it with the traped one. Then next game, use the trap corner first, but there is no trap there. :twisted:
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Deluxe room and passage. Ogres den. Short passage. Room and passage. Fantasy Floor. Traps 1. Traps 2. Wicked additions 1+2. Orc war band, Dungeon Accessories, Medieval Furniture. Treasure and Magic Items. DoE set. DoE room set. DoE WA. DoE HS. Cavern set. Cavernous passage. Caverous chasm. ABS 2. R
 
#3110
MM and player/character knowledge 10 Years, 4 Months ago  
Ok, a bit of a caveat, I haven't used mastermaze for a 'real roleplaying' type of game, just for total hack n slash type scenarios (see my thread on the gamefest milwaukee gauntlet of terror in the cool photos section), so your mileage may vary. But, I've found that the secret door pieces aren't really always that easy to notice, I have two secret door pieces, and one, has a very noticeable gap if you look at it dead on, and the other really doesn't, I just wouldn't place the room/passage behind the door until it was found and you might be ok. You could also place the secret door, and put some kind of dungeon furnishing in front of it (a pillar, book case, statue, etc.

If I was going to do a build as you go dungeon set up, I'd build each room beforehand and place it on top of some custom cut cardboard and then leave them stacked under the table or something, that way you can just plop down finished rooms as they're discovered.
coz
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#3111
MM and player/character knowledge 10 Years, 4 Months ago  
I like to build the dungeon before hand, out of sight on the floor (carpet). Then I just move it in a section at a time as the characters explore more, using a piece of foam core or mat board to carry each section in its assembled state.

I used to use the secret doors, but one day a player hit the table with their hand and the door spun open on its own. Since then I've just used regular pieces, and replaced them with the secret door pieces as the party discovers them.
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#3112
MM and player/character knowledge 10 Years, 4 Months ago  
Coz,

So you are talking about Cutting "Room" Sized pieces of Cardboard, Buliding the Room on top of it, and just Setting the Whole Thing on the Table Cardboard and all Right? (Just making sure I Understand)... That is not a Bad Idea at all... I had original thought that I might actually Build some "Basic" Room Types with Gaps in the Walls for Doors or walls, and then Glueing them together maybe on top of some thin Board or similar... I Still actually Like the Idea, but I Have Too Much DF to do that with, and it would limit my ability to use Traps and such... But Basically the Idea was to Preassemble some rooms along the lines of the Ogres Den...


Tomgar,

Yes I have had the Same Problem, and if the Secret Door is Missed Once, It will not be Missed twice by the Players once they Know what to Look For...
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#3113
MM and player/character knowledge 10 Years, 3 Months ago  
Towels.

I take a few old towels before anyone has seen the dungeon, and cover each major section with it's own individual towel. As the dungeon is delved, the towels are rolled back and removed altogether when a certain section is fully revealed.

While this does give players an aproxamate size and shape of the dungeon, it doesn't give them anything pertinant. Rather, it does encourage curiosity as certain players are always wondering what's lurking behind the next section of towel. This variant also allows for the set up of monsters, treasure and room decor before hand as the players see it as the see the room for the first time.

An added bonus to this system is that the towels can be used as the 'field of vision', keeping players who are in a dark room to only see the room as far as their vision allows. I've had players launching arrows with light cast upon them across rooms they thought were immense, only to disciver it was a fairly standard sized room...that they've just lit up for the inhabitants as well.
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