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How is Dark World coming along?
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TOPIC: How is Dark World coming along?
#7446
How is Dark World coming along? 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
So DOE it is, s'be't.
The only reason I hope it sells well is so that DF will have fluid capital to spend on more worthy projects.


Didn't you jump all over me several weeks ago for criticizing a decision that DF made in their marketing choices? Seems the you really only mind when people criticize decisions you like!

There has been exactly ONE negative opinion of this set on these boards...sounds like DF is making yet another "worthy" product to me!

:)


Why look for an argument Morden?
What was the purpose of this posting. but to antagonize?

Morden, I have been critical of some of DF's decisions, as I have posted on this board before, for years.
I disagreed with Stefan years ago about not being serious about pursuing a Sci-Fi Master Maze system and so on.
Which criticism of yours however long ago did I disagree with?
Or was I disagreeing with your tone more than your position?

However you and others here feel DOE is worthy Morden, I still think the DOE set is some serious steps off in the wrong direction.
I am concerned about being able to promote DF product in the more conservative, whether R or D or whatever, areas in this country.
I KNOW it will not be a big seller in the Northern Rockies.
Then again, that region has fewer people in it than the Baltimore Metro area so there is not a major DF marketing concern.
My concern is more about areas that have greater population, but are still morally conservative.
There are larger population areas with successful MADD (Mothers against Dungeons & Dragons) programs and other such groups.
Having lived in the Deep South at times, where MADD is fairly strong, even wargamers like myself have been painted with their large brush.
We (my wargaming group) literally had to make a public case to avoid the problems MADD can stir up for RPG gamers.
DOE will be bad advertising for DF in such areas; there are just no two ways about in it in this issue in these areas.
MADD and other groups like it, will use DOE as a reason to campaign against DF as a whole company and that WILL hurt sales.
I am sorry that this is the case, but it is the truth.


Hmm...I wasn't really spoiling for a fight, hence the smiley.

As for the South, I've never even heard of MADD (except the one against drunks) and I've lived and gamed outside of Atlanta for 15 years... In fact, I don't think there has been ANY sizeable "anti-gaming" community in the US since the early 1990s.

Time will tell how it all sells....I think it's beautiful and will do quite well; I'm only disappointed that they are limiting production on it.
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#7447
How is Dark World coming along? 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
Am I right in saying that the Fantasy line is selling better than the Sci Fi line? If so this will be kinda good at least since it will build on the fantasy line. I have a bunch of Sci Fi since the sale. But the Fantasy stuff is my main sail....Ehhhh I do like the Dark World Name better though....Seriously...I do........
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#7448
How is Dark World coming along? 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
I would assume with a limited production of 1,000 they are not looking at a large targe audience anyway. I am curious as to what M.A.D.D. type protests can actually acomplish. Are gaming materials illegal in your area? Do they picket the small shops that actually carry this stuff in stock?

I live in L.A. and I know of 1 gaming shop that actually caries DF in-stock. For the most part it is either special order or internet sales anyway, so what can these idiot mothers do?

Any organization that spends its time trying to thwart D&D is not conservative, it is just plain stupid. I am actually going to look them up on-line if possible and harrass them.
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#7449
How is Dark World coming along? 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
...
I am curious as to what M.A.D.D. type protests can actually acomplish. Are gaming materials illegal in your area? Do they picket the small shops that actually carry this stuff in stock?


These folks can do a lot more than a lot of "modern" American folks can really understand.
Local societal approval and disapproval for centuries allowed the elders of an area to guide their people.
Even in this day and age, there are many areas of the world and even in the U.S., where the elders are actually respected and their views followed.
I have seen shoppes fail and fail big in these areas when they start to incorporate RPG supplies like D&D in them.
These stores and their owners are shunned as it is called locally (us big city folks would call it boycotted except it not so overt usually), and once that occurs, a store lasts maybe 6 months to a year unless they are in a prime position to be patronized by government or military personnel posted nearby.
These areas in the US are also the ones that usually only have a need for law enforcement to deal with the "outsiders" that come through, not the locals.

I was in the South when I saw almost all of the organized anti-gaming actions, including some picketing I saw in the Carolinas.
In those areas I was in, most gaming purchases were actually by "outsiders", usually government or military personnel.
The local stores, usually only one small store, knew the way the wind blew so it/they was/were usually situated close to the facility it served.

I had heard rumor near two places I was posted that there were laws out-lawing RPG supplies.
I never pursued information on it since I was/am a wargamer; I myself could not be prosecuted under such because I did not purchase such items.

As far as where I am at currently, I have not heard of any laws.
There are only four game shoppes in a ~100 mile radius of where I am currently posted, but then again, there might only be an absolute max of 200,000 people in that same area, and I think I may be being generous with estimating that many.

I live in L.A. and I know of 1 gaming shop that actually caries DF in-stock.

So, you say you live in L.A. WD.
That does not say much especially since your profile says Orange County.
There is not an L.A. portion to Orange County.
Where do you actually live WD?
Garden Grove, Santa Ana, Fullerton, Newport Beach - where?
Personally, I WAS born in L.A., actually West Los Angeles over by Brentwood, and spent some time living in Glendale and La Crescenta in L.A. County among many other places around the globe.
Actually, my family got posted back to CA in time for me to graduate from CVHS in La Crescenta.

With the number of gaming shoppes in the Basin and around, you can only find one store that sells DF product from the shelves?
That is hard to reconcile with what I remember just a few years ago.
How narrow is your radius of shopping WD?
Do you even shop in L.A. County?
Do you just stay in Orange?
In Orange County there was a really good sized store in Garden Grove called Brookhurst Hobbies which carried Dwarven Forge product.
Is it still there?
They carried lots of other cool wargaming supplies and were even a GW Chapter-Approved store back in the 90s.

For the most part it is either special order or internet sales anyway, so what can these idiot mothers do?

First, as far as these "idiot mothers", do not criticise what you do not or cannot understand WD.
It may be mostly mothers, but just like many other organizations, especially family ones, men are involved too.
Some parents WD, actually care about what goes on in all aspects of their children's lives.
They call it being a family.
So the "idiot" comment is a quite bit high-handed.

Second WD, most folks in small towns, from those small towns, buy in those small towns.
Buying on the Net is called "city slicker" or "big city" behavior and derided as such.
Then, if you do mail order something, folks all over town know you did.
Why?
Because in some of these towns the post office, the only grocery store and the only place to buy clothes and other non-food items locally are all in the same store.
Everybody knows everybody's business in these places and believe it or not, most folks I have met in those towns are happy with the way things are there, even the young people.
They see no advantage to the big city or its ways and the only real reason in their minds for them to leave the area is to serve their country for which they are so grateful for the freedoms its provides.
These areas are among the most patriotic I have seen, but also a bit distrustful of the those folks who come there from that same government.
It is not the government these locals do not trust, but the government people who bring "weird ideas" and a complete lack of morals to these folks' home turf as I was told so many times.
Furthermore, a good number of folks in such environments actually see no productive need for Net or any of the things it brings so they do not have it.
Those same people also do not really enjoy, buy or support television, radio, cable or satellite either for the very same reason.
Even traveling salemen are not looked at well in these areas despite the "conveniences" they pedal; I heard a good many stories of unwed mothers connected to the arrival and departure of said salesmen while I was in those areas.

I know for some of my fellow MM users, you can not or may not want to understand such places, but they really do exist.
A lot of these places still just prefer the paper catalogs that come in the mail like the old Sears, Roebuck & Co. catalog, if they are going to buy anything not from the local store, to any of those "newfangled" ways with those computer things.
These areas are just happy that way.

Any organization that spends its time trying to thwart D&D is not conservative, it is just plain stupid. I am actually going to look them up on-line if possible and harrass them.

Again WD, you show that what folks do not understand just get negative labels slapped on it.
For these folks, what D&D and other things stand for, are things they want no part in their lives.
The small town folks are not the only folks that are that way.
I have met people in NYC, L.A., S.F., Dallas, Miami, Chicago and Boston to name only seven large population places I have spent good amounts of time in, that all have that same attitude.
They just do not go about it like these folks do.
They definitely keep watch over the families and educate them in their views meanwhile living in a metropolis, and D&D and its ilk are just discouraged or prohibited.
In almost all cases, I have seen no curiosity by the children of said families to even look at, let alone buy anything of D&D or its ilk.
Amazingly enough it has nothing to do with repression or anything else like that; these young people have just found things to do in their lives that they value far more than just "some little game" (nicest thing I have heard said about this style of games) as D&D and its ilk have been referred to in my hearing.

What is the shame in all this is that fun games like BattleTech, StarGruntII, $tarCorp$ and other miniature wargames like these have been painted with the same brush despite the vaste differences between them and the offending games which include demons, magic and the like.
It takes a great deal of work on my and others' part to try to pull these quality wargames out from under the onus created by D&D, EverQuest and that ilk in these areas.

I think folks here just need to understand that there are gamers out there that will have a negative experience with the release of DOE and more likely than not some stores as well.
Most of those stores will be smart enough to not even try to carry DOE, but there will be an impact.
Where I am currently, where most folks I believe are hooked to the Net, I do not see almost any sales of DOE, but I do see an impact on future DF purchases.

Lastly in reply, I hope WD that you can something far more productive to do with your time than to harass people you do not know and may not have any ability to understand.
Where is the productivity in that?
That would just be purely mean and possbily even sadistic behavior to seek out these people adn attempt to harass them.
Go game and really enjoy yourself.

With that replied to, since all the comments are simply getting even more ridiculous and malignant fingers pointed at it, can y'all just go about enjoying DOE if that is what you want and leave unsaid your further comments about these folks that have a completely different view of the DOE product let alone life, okay?
The comments just seem to be getting more mean spirited as they go.
Honestly, I think "idiot" & "stupid" were a good bit over the top in the last comment.

I only said anything in the beginning because I heard and saw some negative impact locally over DOE and could imagine the comments flying in some of the other areas I have been posted in if and when they heard about DOE and thought that DF may have some concern about the apparent and possible impact that DOE may make on future DF purchases.
I can read that most of my fellow MM users certainly do not.
May we please move on now?
The horse is quite DEAD!
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#7450
How is Dark World coming along? 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
Hey Rabid Fox, you mentioned you like Battle Tech, I have seen this game played. Can you use Terrain like DOE to play on? or is it strictly out doors. I mean the ranges for the weapons that they eniolate one another in ongoing carnage must be in the 100 to 1000 yards right? You could not say go into a cave with one? They are actually very large machines right? If there are smaller ones some of them could go down to root out a particular mean sect or Clans? They use those clan symbles right? I can't remember any of the names right now but I remember Fasa put out many many of the Mechs as they called them.
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#7451
How is Dark World coming along? 9 Years, 1 Month ago  

Some parents WD, actually care about what goes on in all aspects of their children's lives.
They call it being a family.


Maybe you aren't going to respond to this, since you said you want the topic to die, but this is at least the second time you've used this sort of phrase. It may be the third. I asked about it before, but you might have missed it.

Maybe this is just rhetorical, since you were feeling goaded into a reply, but if this is meant to be a genuine argument, it is wholly empty.

It's exactly like saying "I enjoyed the Star Wars movies because I actually care about movies." It's saying that one particular parenting strategy is the only option if you care.

As I said before -- I know many, many, many people -- in fact, every parent I've ever known in the Boston and New York areas -- who care GREATLY about parenting. The think about it, they read about it, they talk with their friends, their pastors, their rabbis, and their colleagues about it -- and not a single one of them does anything like what you've described.

Thinking RPGs are evil does NOT come as a consequence of caring about parenting. It comes out of an opinion of RPGs that has never been explained in this thread. Where, precisely, is the danger supposed to lie? I'm amazed that in seven pages of discussion there has never been anything substantive said about what the objection actually IS! I doubt I'll agree with it, and neither will many of the other posters, but at least we'll know WHAT the problem is.

Saying "They do it because they care" is totally empty. Why do they feel that, since they care, THIS is the course of action that should be taken? I've made a lot of choices in my life, and while some have been rather liberal and others have been somewhat conservative, I have very rarely made ANY choice simply because I cared. You have to have a little more than that.

L
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#7452
How is Dark World coming along? 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
Sorry I cannot respond to this without violating every rule in place by our new moderator. If this horse is truly dead, let it be dead and drop it, otherwise I am going to explode!
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#7453
How is Dark World coming along? 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
I think you were playing Devils Advocate right Rabid Fox? I mean that is what " They would Think " not that it was your opinion. I'll bite L. " I have enjoyed reading some of your posts BTW. The main opjection is simply that it, ummm what is the word....Ehhh,,,, Promotes!! Thats it,, It somehow pormotes evil because it is being treated in a causual and inocent way like a game. In that way it becomes more sinester and seductive...? I don't feel this way but I think that would be the main objection to the product from those who don't game or know gamers well. Umm and have a fair amount of religion in thier lives....Pant pant pant...Am I off base or has that sumed it up?
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#7454
How is Dark World coming along? 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
LOL sorry Brave Heart, I did not see your post till I was done putting mine up...
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#7455
How is Dark World coming along? 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
Transfering subject of Families, Parenting and Gaming to Non-Gaming Talk forum where it belongs.

AMGHMOOS.
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#7456
How is Dark World coming along? 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
L, I'll probably get in trouble from Admin for posting this but, that reminds me a whole lot of a stand-up comedy routine that Chris Rock does. I absolutely love it. He basically says, "Don't you hate it when n***as try to get credit for doin' something they supposed to be doin' and say some stupid **it like, "I take CARE of MY kids!!!" Then he says, "N**ga, you SUPPOSED to take care of your kids!"

It's one of the funniest skits I've seen him do and so true across all walks of life. ;-}~
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#7457
How is Dark World coming along? 9 Years, 1 Month ago  
1) I am working to figure out a way to ship to Europe (or at least the UK). Our shipper is getting me some costs, and I hope we can figure away to get them there as cheap as possible. I think it will be rather expensive, but given #2 it will be necessary.

2) The Limited Edition "Den of Evil" will only be available directly from Dwarven Forge. We will not release it through distributors or retailers, so you can only get it through our website or at Origins/Gen Con. We are trying this new distribution model to see if it will work better for us and our customers. The best thing for consumers is that it will keep the cost down...as the price of oil and labor has skyrocketed.

3) We will just make a 1,000 sets, then that is it. We may make some additional "Den of Evil" accessory sets like a Wicked Edition type set.

There will be more info around June 30 on this website.
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